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Too much
Perfect
Not enough
100% agree. He lacks item choices in the mid game.Originally Posted by Pazuzu
Ghost marchers -> helm and vestment, what then? Frostburn is meh.. Mock works, but you cant get that every game.
This game needs more midgame strength/dps items. (No I didnt forget about insanitarus.)
I mean, compare to intellect heroes.. The amount of stuff they can choose from?? Ranging from early->mid->late.. Its not even slightly close.
Sure you can say its balanced this way.. but still. They should add more choices for midgame tanky strength heroes (in the damage path that is).
It's definitely possible if you know how to play well.
The one thing I go for is Hellflower It meets his huge mana requirements gives some AS and some dmg as well as another disable.
One really really good pickup on hims is FWS it basically gives him everything he needs but even with that he still is outshined by heroes like Amun-ra.
Salforis is the example of what tanky dps heroes should be. He is pretty much balanced but he need some small tweeks mainly on the cast range and cast time of his q.
Some changes need to happen with the interaction between focus buffer and barrier idol
IRC the heal still procs on these items/skills.
just my 2 cents.
I like this very much.
If Mors is not changed (though it seems like it already has been), I think it would not hurt terribly to try and move the healing capabilities of PotDL onto Mors (of course, not in the same way as it functions on PotDL) and then implement the above heal reduction onto PotDL. Makes Mors less useless and PotDL would give Salf more presence, LOL Presence, after the early-mid game stage. Could be quite strong though.
Last edited by RequiemXE; 02-28-2012 at 04:50 PM.
Mors Certissima isn't that bad.
Surely I prioritise Lifetap over it, but Mors Certissima has the potential to grab some kills early on. Chalice use makes intelligent use of the spell not a mana problem.
My problem is late game when heroes tend to move faster. The cast time of Mors Certissima can make it sometimes impossible to land at all. Also, the heal aspect of it doesn't take into account magic damage reduction.
Kinesis' passive takes into account attempted damage done. Surely LS can have an anti version of it? The heal from Mors Certissima is dependant from the damage actually dealt?
LS's other problems can be solved by a Shrunken head & Assassin's Shroud/PK or by the Vindicator's rework landing. I'm scared to pick LS in SD games just in case that 4 second silence idiot appears.
^ Dropping the regen from his passive hurts his survivability early making him even more dependent on his lifetap.
HF and FWS works, but they are insanely expensive. Unless you are pubstomping and have a great farm, u arent gonna get those. And there is no fallback item. Unlike intelect heroes who can go for tablet/astrolabe/spellshard etc etc.. u name it!
Cant say I have any troubles when I can go this route: Ghost -> helm/vestment -> mock. Thats the perfect build for him (imo atleast). But he is really gimped if its starts to go downhill when he starts building for mock. There should be more middle ground items imo.
It's definitely possible if you know how to play well.
Whispering Helm and Spell Shards imo are a cheaper equivalent. If farm presents itself, you can make a symbol of rage for INSANE Lifetaps.
Salforis is fine. Know your place. You want to tank hard and also to make a hat-trick in mid/late game? Guess what? You can't have that!
Salforis is the example of what tanky dps heroes should bewhat tanky dps heroes should be......tanky dps heroes
Brb deleting HoN.tanky dps
Go Insanitarius on him after Hotbl, or even just after Phase Boots. The synergy with his life tap is incredible really. There's your mid-game power.
If you went Hotbl, you can now go Hellflower and Frostwolf Skull (in that order). If needed, Shrunken Head after Insanitarius.
This is exactly the biggest problem with HoN. Tanky DPS heroes in themselves shouldn't be a problem, but there should be drawbacks, and this is exactly the reason why Salf is probably balanced. He needs to build mana and damage to continue to be relevant into late game, it's not easy to build those items because he can't flashfarm cheaply and then he isn't really a carry anyway. He dominates mid game with some survivability. Contrast this to Zephyr and Ra, who dominate midgame and continue to dominate into late, have huge consistent damage and survivability, and are tied for the two best farmers in game. They are also both much easier to play. Huge problem.
891 average BPM
Even if you buffed mors.... i think 0/4/4 would be better.
Mors is useful mid to late to burst up his damage and push lanes when he gets more mana if you want to go that route.
Honestly, i feel like most people not getting shrunken head on this hero because they treat him like Ra is why people think he needs more buffing.
LS is ridiculously strong early game to the point where its almost a problem in itself. Maybe not in the comp scene cause i haven't seen him there, but when i play salf i always win early, and i have only started to win mid to late because i now know that salf must have a shrunken in almost every game.
SERIOUSLY PEOPLE, GET A SHRUNKEN. guy was just saying i go ghosts hotbl and mystic, What now? SHRUNKEN.
YES! Brilliant. Hellflower is ok as well but this man knows whats up. follow that up with a bheart or frostwolf and you are golden.
Last edited by Ogrim; 02-29-2012 at 07:37 PM.
LS is strong in the early game.
I think there are worse strong early game gankery tanky types. For example rampage. For a start Rampage is immune to snares and stuns during his charge. Rampage also has global dominance and has stuns/knockbacks/bashes/control. Lord Salforis isn't much of an active ganker at level 6 due to the long CD on his ulti. He seems to prefer sitting and farming. His only control is snare. He can gimickly tower dive and not draw tower aggro via his passive damage aura (no need to right click attack). LS can still be controlled.
Yes, that is a messy presentation of a comparison between Lord Salforis and Rampage.
I see Lord Salforis in the lane game as a reliable Blood Hunter, who is strength and ganks less. Also is less likely to de-evolve into support.
Back on that Rampage comparison. Rampage installs the fear of out of the blue ganks more than Lord Salforis. Least with LS with wards you might gets a heads up of him waddling towards you. Rampage usually, by the time he shows up on wards it is too late. In less as a team you can co-ordinate taking him down. You don't need to do that as much with LS. If you have stealth, Rampage will scare you. You will want a nullstone. LS is less of an issue. He runs up to you and ults, you stealth and slink away. EZ.
Last edited by Sherwood; 03-02-2012 at 07:41 AM.
what you neglect about hellflower is it helps you flashfarm like a God with the unlimited mana it gives to spam Q, making fws and whatever other items he needs to stay relevant into late easy to farm.
top it off with the insane amount of synergy you're getting with Q's high burst output (and 20% more damage taken), a true damage ulti that prevents healing, true damage aura, lifetap, and the silence hellflower gives, and it's pretty hard to dismiss hellflower as "too expensive to be viable," especially with its very practical buildup (around 2 arcana's your mana problems pretty much disappear and you can be spamming Q to farm easily for those other items, shrunken+fws).
keep in mind that his early game is already very strong, so acquiring a farm/level advantage is not the problem for him, if you're having trouble saving enough money for arcana's I don't really know what kind of crappy salforis you're playing..
hellflower helps spearhead his mid-game farm/usability to make him strong even late game, Q alone is an extremely underrated spell, and there's just so much synergy with hellflower's active ability and salforis it's sad most people still haven't caught on by now. the reason why people assume he "falls off" late game is because you're building him to do so and not taking advantage of everything has to offer..
as for balancing, I really feel no changes should made right now, people need to experiment more and stop following the incredibly bad top guides he currently has, last time I checked every single one of them was a joke. Just my opinion though.
Last edited by PrestonLee; 03-02-2012 at 05:22 PM.
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FOR ALL THAT IS HOLY~!
Don't worry guys, Lodestone won't be getting picked up in competitive, your balance forum regulars have assured it in this Lodestone balance thread ;)
http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?470528-Lodestone-First-Impressions&p=15618341&viewfull=1#post15618341
Wow I'm surprised there are so many pages and most of the posts aren't like my thoughts about this hero.
I don't want to sound noobish but even if I do it's fine because the game isn't made for the pros only.
I seriously feel the hero is OP, the char allows himself so freaking much because of his survivability, so many regen ! passive, lifetap, ulti . .
when this char goes mid against me, I feel I can't freaking do anything !
he just regens if I harass, he harass back while regenin' himself ..
srsly ?
Salforis is indeed a strong laner - the problem is that he provides very, very little to a teamfight other than hunting down and (slowly) killing a specific hero. You can drop 5 second 360 nukes if you've built the manapool and regeneration for it, but that's rare to see.
He has no disable other than a weak, tapering slow. His steroids are weak and situational. His damage is heavily limited by his manapool and mostly single-target.
Salforis is strong, but mostly because he can win lanes so hard.
Now I may have a crap mmr but this is what I have to say: Salforis is like a swiss army knife, he is versatile, can do a bunch of crap but doesn't specialize a lot in anything. If we were to divide HoN heroes into 5 different types, he would be 20% in each. He is a little bit tanky, little bit support/disabler, a semi-carry (scales OKAY but not that great late game), a little bit of a nuke and a little bit of a ganker/pusher. That is the beauty and ugliness of him (no not the epic armor). There are really effective ways to build him but largely depends on your team picks. If your team already has 1-2 tanks, don't make him one. Typically salforis should focus on one person with your teammates, don't just randomly ult a hero. Stunners bolster his effectiveness because your ult will eat away at the hero while your teammates beat the **** out of that person (typically a tank or carry). With picks like that, even magebane will be scared. If I made him, I might've tweaked with his attributes a bit and increase MC's cast range
First if all it is very ironic you are saying that because of your account icon. 2nd of all, Salforis is FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR from OP.
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Instead of giving him HP regen for every enemy around him with Dark Lord's presence, make him get 1/2/3/4 armor for every enemy hero around him. It would make up for the lack of armor late game (He lives with 5 armor at lvl 16...) and still give him the early game advantage he already has.
EDIT: Or you could make it not be affected by creeps, so he doesnt get like 25 armor at lvl 9.
Dark Lord's Presence and Life Tap aren't really what need to be looked at. It's common knowledge that these two skills in tandem are an excellent combination, and contribute to Salforis' early game mid lane dominance.
Mors Certissima is the main deal here. It's not a horrible spell, there just aren't usually many times when you'll want to get it maxed before Life Tap and in many cases Presence.
The spell has a good concept though, it just needs to work better in game. Damage healed needs to be a percentage of the damage that the targets actually take from the spell.
As it stands, leveling the spell early is really difficult to maintain on Salf's mana pool, but in the mid game even mystic vestments hurt this spell more than they do most spells in the game (by means of the after-heal). So either way, you're somewhat screwed for picking it.
I think that it needs to be looked at and made more viable, but only slightly changed so as not to break the hero. He's very close to balanced, in my opinion.
Still nothing has been said about how hard he drops off in the late game what changes could be made to help him scale even just a little more into the late game?
for one I think the cast range on His q is ridiculously short as well as the cast speed.
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