Thread: [excellence] Doll Mistress

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  1. #1

    [excellence] Doll Mistress

    Abbreviations

    DM = Doll Mistress
    sec = second(s)
    dmg = damage

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    Combat Attributes

    No specific numbers.

    Perhaps similar to Torturer except with shorter attack range and slightly slower movement speed.

    I am thinking of 290-300 movespeed, 500 attack range.

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    1st Skill: Shooter Doll
    30/35/40/45 mana
    instant cast
    target vector, 700 range for origin of vector
    2/3/3/4 max charges, 8 sec per charge
    no cooldown
    45/60/75/90 magic dmg on attack
    500 range doll, 250 spread
    takes .5 sec to drop doll, .5 sec delay on doll's attack (total delay before attack: 1 sec)
    dolls become inactive after firing, max 1/1/2/3 inactive dolls total on the map (limit shared with Spinner Doll)

    Explanation


    The charge system is exactly like Chipper's rockets.

    The targetting system is exactly like Engineer's turret.

    A doll armed with magic/a shotgun is placed up to [range 1] away from DM, facing its given direction. It takes .5 sec to get to the location. .5 sec after reaching the location, it blasts the area in front of it for [magic dmg]. This blast goes up to [range 2] away from the doll, and its total spread at the blast's end diameter/length is [spread].

    After the doll fires, it sits where it is placed, considered "inactive." It replaces any older dolls if the maximum limit of dolls on the map has been reached. This doll limit is shared between Shooter Doll and Spinner Doll.


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    2nd Skill: Spinner Doll
    61/74/87/100 mana
    instant cast
    target area
    1/1/2/2 max charges, 12 sec per charge
    1 sec cooldown
    500 range, 250 radius
    takes .5 sec to drop doll, lasts 3 sec after landing
    every .25 sec: doll causes stacking slow of -6/-8/-10/-12 (max 200; shared max with ultimate) and 8/12/16/20 magic dmg in radius
    dolls become inactive after spinning, max 1/1/2/3 inactive dolls total on the map (limit shared with Shooter Doll)

    Explanation


    The charge system is exactly like Moraxus' axes.

    The targetting system is exactly like Torturer's stun.

    A doll armed with a spear is placed at the centre of the target area. It takes 0.5 sec to get there. Upon landing, it begins spinning for a total of [duration]. Every .25 sec, it deals [magic dmg] and adds a stacking slow of [slow]. There is a [maximum] that the doll can slow by, which is shared by Doll Activation's debuff.

    After the doll finishes spinning, it sits where it is placed, considered "inactive." It replaces any older dolls if the maximum limit of dolls on the map has been reached. This doll limit is shared between Shooter Doll and Spinner Doll.


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    3rd Skill: Doll Mastery
    passive
    1/2/3/4 max charges, 10 sec per charge
    charges can be used up by first and second skills when their charges are depleted
    total inactive dolls on the map increased by 1/2/3/4
    PERHAPS (maybe too much?): 4/6/8/10% chance to stun any enemy attackers (including those targetting with a spell) for .25 sec as their attack/cast animation begins

    Explanation


    The charge system is like Chipper's rockets, but the ability itself is passive.

    The charges can be used by both Shooter Doll and Spinner Doll when they have run out of charges.

    Total possible inactive dolls on the map is increased by [amount]. This doll limit is shared between Shooter Doll and Spinner Doll.

    The possible passive effect (which may be too much) works like Legionnaire's counterattack in that it procures as the enemy attacker/caster raises its weapon. It also works like Nullstone's effect towards enemy casters in that it will only have a chance to stun targetted abilities.

    When the passive ability procures, a doll appears beside the offending enemy and attacks, stunning the enemy for .25 sec. This merely for aesthetic effect: the actual stun procures instantly


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    Ultimate: Doll Activation
    80/100/120 mana
    instant cast
    5 sec cooldown
    all inactive dolls are activated
    active dolls: 200/250/300 speed, 250 radius, last 3 sec, moves towards closest visible enemy hero in 1000 radius
    every .25 sec: dolls cause stacking slow of -6/-9/-12 (max 200; shared max with second skill) and 8/14/20 magic dmg in radius
    active dolls disappear after spinning

    Explanation


    The activation of the ability is like Devourer's decay in that when activated while standing, it plays an animation which can be instantly cancelled, and when activated while moving, no animation will play and the DM will continue to move uninterrupted.

    All inactive dolls on the map are "activated;" that is, they become like homing Spinner Dolls.

    Each activated doll lasts [duration], have [movespeed], and affects all enemies in [radius]. Each doll goes in the direction of the nearest visible enemy Hero in a 1000 radius from where the doll is. Every .25 sec, each doll deals [magic dmg] and adds a stacking slow of [slow]. There is a [maximum] that the doll can slow by, which is shared by Spinner Doll's debuff.

    If the ability is activated while no dolls are on the field, it is wasted.


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    Doll Information


    Inactive dolls are invulnerable.


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    Internal Synergy


    There is the obvious forced synergy between the first two abilities and the last two abilities.

    Apart from that, there is synergy between Shooter Doll and Spinner Doll; Spinner Doll can be used to slow down an enemy to help land some Shooter Dolls.

    Spinner Doll can be lead into another Spinner Doll (and even more) at higher levels.

    Doll Activation can also be used to hit-confirm for Shooter Doll (or more Spinner Dolls).

    At best, by herself, the DM is a mediocre ganker; Spinner Doll is skillshot and works best when its able to stay on an enemy.

    When it comes to teamfights, the DM can control a lot of ground: she can maintain several circles of radius 250 dealing damage and slowing trespassers with Spinner Doll, cut off chokepoints with both Spinner Dolls AND Shooter Dolls.


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    External Synergy


    This is where things get fun.

    Any stunner paired with DM is sure to become a kill-lane. Spinner Doll can then build up a lot of charges on the slow, and fast, while dealing above average damage if it hits for the full duration. Then, Shooter Doll can be used to snipe stragglers.

    Next, imagine a Tempest ultimate or a chain of stuns or grips: of course, this can be beneficial to many other Heroes, but especially for the DM. Her Spinner Dolls deal damage that is significantly higher than average when stacked with extra charges from Doll Mastery. Not only that, but they help to place a barrage of Shooter Dolls, which also deal above average damage when all of them land. Overall, the DM can deal MUCH more damage than normal when given the opportunity.

    These points combine to show that DM is significantly better at ganking when also aided by allied slows and stuns.


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    Flaws


    Perhaps the biggest flaw with DM is the forced internal synergy caused by its passive and ultimate. However, I argue that these flaws are not necessarily flaws at all, as Thunderbringer, Defiler, and Doctor Repulsor have similar examples of forced synergy (their passives), except that my Hero's passive and ultimate play into a core playstyle of DM.

    Nonetheless, I took steps in an attempt to mitigate these flaws.

    What I did for Doll Mastery is add Tiny's passive (from DotA) to give DM slightly more survivability; an important factor if the DM ever chooses to engage in a long, drawn-out fight.

    For Doll Activation, I simply made it a spammable move with its relatively low mana costs and low cooldown. This change also plays into the general theme of DM, which includes spamming abilities throughout a fight.


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    Possible Changes


    Add a slow to Shooter Doll.

    Move the doll limit passive bonus to the ultimate.

    Keep/remove the random stun-attackers/casters effect from the passive. Perhaps move it to the ultimate.

    Inactive dolls are invisible.

    Dolls within [radius] of DM deal a [percent] of their damage in True damage.

    Active dolls (dolls that have landed and not fired yet, dolls that have landed and are spinning) can be killed.

    Buff Doll Mastery following the model found in http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showpost.php?p=14841143&postcount=13 .


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    General Comments


    I think this is my second (or third?) Hero I've ever made. I actually tried to put a lot of thought into the numbers and concept, so I hope they are satisfactory (although the numbers are considerably easier to adjust than the concept).

    I feel that DM has potential to deal a LOT of damage, like Torturer, Thunderbringer, and Chipper. DM can deal both burst damage or it can sustain its damage throughout a long teamfight. DM can also choose to play a very intricate game with its charge-based and slightly delayed area-denial spells.

    I actually designed DM quite some time ago, with an ultimate like Geomancer's but a lot faster in impact (.5 sec delay). I took a lot of inspiration from Alice Margatroid of Touhou Hisoutensoku (a fighting game that involves a lot of zoning and footsies). She had perhaps the most intense and skill-requiring zoning games.

    When I saw the Excellence contest, I immediately thought back to DM, because both have the central theme of zoning. I simply tweaked the Hero a bit, played around with some numbers some more, and changed the ultimate and passive around.

    Hopefully, I designed something cool. I can't wait to hear your thoughts on it!


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    Changelog


    Jan. 27, 2012: buffed [damage] numbers for Shooter Doll.
    Last edited by N`Hydrolisk; 01-31-2012 at 09:33 PM.

  2. #2

  3. #3
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    ^ implying?

  4. #4
    I really like the concept, would love to try it.

    Im just wondering, can the dolls be killed?

    Otherwise i do like chars where you have to plan ahead

  5. #5
    Liked your hero, but it is a pain to read all those lines. I made a "doll" hero too .
    Suggestion:

    Every doll close to you will deal 20/30/40/50% of its damage in true damage.

    Btw: 170 views in one day?dafuq




    Thanks Lhune!

    Sorry for my bad English!

  6. #6
    It was indeed a pain to read :P

  7. #7
    @WeXaztor: Inactive dolls cannot be killed. Active dolls that have not yet fired or finished spinning... Maybe, I'm not sure. I'll add that to my list of possible changes.

    @MaTz0r: I kinda suck at formatting. I'm not sure how else to do it though, since there is so much information that needs presenting. I'll try to fix up the formatting though.

    Thank you for your suggestion! I've added it to the list of possible changes. I'm just not sure about it; DM can already deal above average damage, and she isn't meant to be very close to the dolls in the first place.

    -

    Thank you all for your feedback. I'll try formatting it to be neater.

  8. #8
    Do they move to closest hero in 250 radius?

  9. #9
    I haven't ironed out the EXACT specifications of the homing capabilities, but roughly, I'd say they go in the direction of the nearest visible enemy Hero in a 1000 radius from where the doll is.

  10. #10
    Sounds good, i could enjoy playing this one, though im not a big fan of spinning
    but it works :P

  11. #11
    I forgot to write that Shooter Dolls are armed with magic/a shotgun and Spinner Dolls are armed with a spear.

    Just a visual thing.

  12. #12
    Buffed Shooter Doll to deal some more slightly more damage (360 at level 4 when all dolls hit).

  13. #13
    Your hero is indeed strange yet unique. i Somehow feel he is very Spam-y (Due to the fact his whole concept works on multiple uses of his first and second ability)

    I also Feel that his second ability overshadows the first. Though you did reduce the manacost significantly

    Heres my Suggestions

    1. With your passive, Start it at level 0, Allowing 3 overall inactive dolls on the map, Then adding 1/3/5/7 dolls as you level up, Max 3/4/6/8/10 Charges (Aka max 3/4/6/8/10 inactive dolls on the map)
    Also reduces 1/2/3/4 seconds off the recharge time of dolls

    2. Increase the Overall damage by shooter doll by 5/20/35/50 then halve the damage (To 25/40/55/70) But make the doll shoot twice.
    in Turn, Increase the mana cost by about 10 per level

    You might think this is a big buff but it means magic armour reduces it twice (And therefore is a bigger reduction than just one big hit) Though overall it is still a buff
    Who is Captain utility you ask?
    One asian and a chinese cup stuck to a forehead later and this is what you get

    He may be only a legend amongst the drunk people of Hawkesbury, but one day he will save the day

    Sindred: An epic Hard carry adept at taking down grouped enemies

    http://dream.heroesofnewerth.com/her...tility/Sindred

  14. #14
    Whoah, #1 includes some pretty drastic changes! You do realize that 10 activated dolls would deal a metric ****ton of damage, right?

    Also, I won't implement #2 because mathematically, the way armour is implemented in this game (% based reduction versus static reduction), using that change would only buff the damage.

    You see: AX + AY + AZ... = A(X + Y +Z...)

    I forgot what this property is called, but there you go.

    Anyway, I'll add your suggestion to the list of possible changes.

    Thanks for your post!

  15. #15
    im sorry, I may of misread your hero

    But since you added the number of inactive dolls on both doll skills (1/1/2/3) or whatever, I just assumes that you meant, 3 Inactive dolls from Skill 1, + 3 Inactive Dolls from skill 2, + 4 Inactive dolls from skill 4 (Which makes 10). I simply thought your passive was too weak and it should be based on the inactive dolls instead of having your 1st and 2nd ability also contributing to inactive dolls
    Who is Captain utility you ask?
    One asian and a chinese cup stuck to a forehead later and this is what you get

    He may be only a legend amongst the drunk people of Hawkesbury, but one day he will save the day

    Sindred: An epic Hard carry adept at taking down grouped enemies

    http://dream.heroesofnewerth.com/her...tility/Sindred

  16. #16
    Also on a second note.

    Dolls total damage with my suggested change would be calculated as
    with 5 Magic armour (Base)
    50/80/110/140 - (5 + 5) damage - ~25% (From magic reduction)
    which turns into 40/70/100/130 overall damage - ~ 25%

    With 15 Magic Armour (Shaman Headdress)
    Turns into
    50/80/110/140 - (15 + 15) damage - ~ 50%
    Overall damage = 20/50/80/110 - ~50%

    In it's current form
    With 5 magic armour it deals
    45/60/75/90 - 5 Damage - ~ 25%
    = 40/55/70/85 Total damage - ~25%

    with 15 Magic Armour it deals (Shaman Headdress)
    45/60/75/90 - 15 Damage - ~50%
    = 30/45/60/75 Total Damage - ~50%

    I Simply think without the buff the ability is just too weak, even at higher levels, But thats just my opinion
    Who is Captain utility you ask?
    One asian and a chinese cup stuck to a forehead later and this is what you get

    He may be only a legend amongst the drunk people of Hawkesbury, but one day he will save the day

    Sindred: An epic Hard carry adept at taking down grouped enemies

    http://dream.heroesofnewerth.com/her...tility/Sindred

  17. #17
    The damage calculation is actually like this:

    DMG: Damage
    DR: Damage Reduction (as a ?.?? number, i.e. 25% is .25)

    Skill DMG = DMG - DMG * DR
    Skill DMG = DMG(1 - DR)

    Damage and armour don't interact like this:

    Skill Damage = Damage - Armour Value

    EDIT:

    Also, the 1/1/2/3 doll maximum is shared between Shooter Doll and Spinner Doll. Doll Mastery increases this shared limit by 1/2/3/4. Thus, the maximum number of dolls ever is 1/3/5/7.

    Should this number be buffed? I don't know, I think active dolls are pretty strong already, and considering that with Shooter Doll, you can spawn 4 inactive dolls within 1 second, then immediately activate them with Doll Activation. This would mean, at max level, (20DMG/sec)(4 frames/sec)(3 sec)(4 dolls) = 960 DMG over 3 seconds (which is 320 damage per sec).
    Last edited by N`Hydrolisk; 01-31-2012 at 06:26 PM.

  18. #18
    Hey guys, I'd like to post this on Dream, so I'm bumping it again to ask for more thoughts so I can create a Dream version of this Hero.

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