Solid Rmk Kick Function / Team only

[[TGZ]stuvis]

This is my idea of how to improve RAP and reducing the amount of work for those who look through the endless tide of reports. People are not aware that kicking for no reason is not reportable anymore, so they keep doing it, thus more work for the mods/GMS(w/e). This idea would in my opinion drastically lower the amount of reports sent in for no reason and also make it much easier to kick someone breaking the rules.

Enjoy!



It is very common these days to see an endless spam of kick votes for no actual reason. (if you don't count being mad as one) Very often when someone gets angry at his team, he initiates kicks left and right and if you are doing good you might actually get kicked.

Since the removal of "kicking for no reason" as a bannable offense, I have seen an increasing amount of kick votes getting passed. Most of the time they are just because of anger and not justified at all. People are really abusing this and thus making the game less enjoyable, especially for new players who are getting enough bashed on as it is.

The main issues:

* Griefers never get kicked because the other team can farm them and their team.

* No actual punishment for ruining the games for so many others.

* The ones getting kicked are almost always people that are unhappy that their team have started giving up.

* If you get locked up with a team of four, then you are pretty much screwed no matter how you play or act lol.


This is not an easy issue to deal with, because it takes so much time and effort for the mods to go through the endless amount of reports from players claiming they are innocent. The problem is however, that the issue is being looked at from the wrong side. Instead of going through tons of reports where people claiming that they did nothing wrong for 70 minutes, you should change the way this is being looked at. Here is my suggestion on how to improve the kick system and how to make it a great tool for dealing with griefers.

The solution:

Every time someone successfully kicks someone, the player that initiated the vote has to submit a report on why he kicked the person. He must state when and where the player broke the rules, just like an ordinary report using the RAP system. He cannot simply kick someone because he went portal key plague rider mid or anything like that, but when someone is spamming the chat, being a racist, feeding mid 10 times before creeps spawn etc. Simply put, you may only kick someone that is violating the rules according to the RAP system. This way you can implement team only vote kicks without making this game into a kick fest.

The initiator must fill this form before being able to join any kind of game at all, thus forcing him to do it.

* If his report was successful, the kicked player will get banned from violating the rules, thus removing a troll from the game, making it more enjoyable for the rest of the players. SUCCESS

* If the report was not worthy at all, (the result of a troll-kick) then the initiator of the vote should be banned for breaking the rules of kicking for no valid reason. The player who did nothing wrong will sadly get kicked that day, but he can rest assured that the one kicking him will get banned and will gladly enjoy this free leave from a troll game and proceed to the next! SUCCESS

In both cases, the initiator and the kicked player should be notified by mail/message with the results. This will make people believe in the system and therefore this will reduce the amount of vote kicks.

Final words

This of course needs some tweaking to become the ultimate solution, but at least try to look at this as guidelines. There are other issues too that needs to be taken care of, such as the ability to kick from non-verified accounts and such. (I do not think they should be able to kick anyone until verified) Personally I don't see any problems at the moment and I cannot see how this could not work. Please leave comments on how you feel about these changes and why they are good or bad or needs tweaking to become effective.

That's all for me!

[[TGZ]stuvis]

Forgot the poll...

[[RC2W]Omega]

With this in place, kicking requires too much work. It will end up the same way RAP has ended up...

Number of kicks that had good reason will increase (as a percentage of total kicks) but number of kicks overall will decrease, because minor trolls will not be seen as worth the effort of submitting a kick report.

[[TGZ]stuvis]

That's a good thing right? :S
That kicking will decrease? :S

I don't get your logic man. Can you define "minor trolls" please?
If the player is not breaking any rules, then why kick him? You really downvoted this because you like to spam kick votes on all players that does not play the way you want to? From your post, it seems like you like kicking people for no reason. :S

Please explain.

[[TGZ]stuvis]

Dump!

[Toadies]

Kick vote should just be removed. I've been playing HoN since beta and can only think of one single time that a player needed to be kicked to maintain the integrity of the game. I can think of multiple times where the carry was kicked for luls at the end of the game though. Someone important must have been in charge of the Kick Vote design for them to keep it around as long as they have. Any real examination of data would show that the feature is actually used as intended less than 5% of the time, if that.

[[TGZ]stuvis]

Kick vote should just be removed. I've been playing HoN since beta and can only think of one single time that a player needed to be kicked to maintain the integrity of the game. I can think of multiple times where the carry was kicked for luls at the end of the game though. Someone important must have been in charge of the Kick Vote design for them to keep it around as long as they have. Any real examination of data would show that the feature is actually used as intended less than 5% of the time, if that.

With my suggestion it will pretty much be removed, except for the rare cases when someone is obviously trying to ruin the game for others. It does not happen a lot, but sometimes people that have to go or is mad at someone for not warding/tp/fighting etc stop caring about the consequences of their actions and will prcoceed with griefing for the rest of the game. They can destroy their items in base and avoiding AFK detection while flaming the team (happens a lot), following others trying to ruin their farm and calling out their position, going into mid tower before creeps spawn over and over again, abusing their spells to give an advantage to the other team or just simply being rude and harassing the team verbally for 45 minutes.

The opposing team will almost NEVER kick for any of this because they think this is fun and gives them a free win. They can farm the other team and watching them bashing on each other while laughing the asses off. For some reason, they have to take part of deciding whether the griefer should get kicked or not. This makes almost all kicks "troll kicks", for example kicking the best player on the opposing team because this will increase their chances of winning, thus making this a flawed system.

I want to remove "troll kicks" by forcing the guy who initiated the kick to report the kicked player, because that is the ONLY reason why you would have a kick function in the first place. Some people down vote my suggestion without arguing, so they are obviously trolls who often plays four locks lol... Of course you can argue and say that my suggestion should be tweaked etc, but I really don't see much downsides with this. I guess the ones who would not want this are those who grief on a regular basis.

[Fen__]

Well not sure if i understand it wrong. You want to decrease number of raports that s2 gets and at the same time demotivate players to make unargumentable kicks.

1. Complete fail of a plan. In situation that we have now, people kick smb and than we have 2 options that can happen. Person who got kicked report a player, or he just forgets the situation and play another game. No matter how you look at the situation many of kicks that passed wont be reported because player wont want to waste his time signing forms that probably wont help (wont get accepted/banne dplayer will just make another free to play acc and **** on the whole game system that we got since F2P action) = less reports to S2. But with your system every votekick would get reported no matter if smb originaly would do it or not = more raps.

2. I highly doubt it. In most of cases when i votekick smb means that the person completly destroyed the game for my team by: feeding, not listening to tips, not joining any fights or helping team, going to lanes where they shouldnt be (by team decision) and screwing other people lanning phase by that. Yes those are rage influented kicks, yes most of people does like that and yes, when smb make you play a 40 minutes game that give you no pleasure couz of 0% chance to win your so mad that will fill a form, which i can assure, would take little time. I.e.: reason: feeding/not listening to team/losing on purpose (writing of this =2-4s), date: 01.02.2012 (2-4s), game name: 156192569125691 (need to check so prob around 15-20s) but since its automatic report and voteinitiator have to write game will prob suggest that number so it wont take any time, name of kicked: like previous <- cant see any other sections that this raport could contain. So filing such a report would take like 4-30s, highly doubt that smb wouldnt spend that time since votekicks in my games usually pass with ratio maybe 1 in 3 days.

Thats my oppinion, maybe ive mistaken and players are completly different from me and from what i saw till now 1 thing is certain and you'r right, sth needs to be done with current votekick system couz trashpub players never pass the enemy kick vote since they prefer to boost their kd on griefieng players. Maybe making a system with 6 votes required to kick smb (4 from own team, 2 from enemy) would help? who knows :P

Kick vote should just be removed. I've been playing HoN since beta and can only think of one single time that a player needed to be kicked to maintain the integrity of the game. I can think of multiple times where the carry was kicked for luls at the end of the game though. Someone important must have been in charge of the Kick Vote design for them to keep it around as long as they have. Any real examination of data would show that the feature is actually used as intended less than 5% of the time, if that.

Dont know friend but it seems that your a person who have problem with being votekicked. From my personal experience players like you (if im correct judging your person) act like a poor and doing nothing wrong sheep who gets charged and flamed by angry players without real life. The fact is that usually such a trash sheep always pick hard carry no matter what their team asks for, go to w/e lane they want without listening to anyone, save every possible skill and lose a lot of kills couz of that just to ks everything they can and **** on any advices from their team about skill/item builds/actions they should do. But thats unimportant, the only thing that matters is fact that player got kicked from game only couz he isnt to good and others blamed him! BAN EM S2!

1. Is being bad worth getting kicked ? - no
2. Is being bad and not listening to anyone on team since your best brown there is, worth getting kicked ? - yes

Btw forgot to mention syndrome of "(some nationality) never concede", when 1 player decides that HA, we lost every lane ! Ha we got no farm or late game ! Ha we lost 2 baracks at minute 20 ! Ha f*ck you all i wont concede couz i can steal 2 more kills with my bullet so keep on watching for another XX minutes pointless game in which you cant do anything, get 0 plesure of it and lose your time couz my parents dropped me on my head when i was young and enemys need to boost their kd since its only possible way for them

[Toadies]

Edit: I started a thread about how the kick vote concept is flawed a couple years ago and the thread ended up having hundreds of replies and something like 30k views, but it looks like they deleted old posts. Pity, there was a lot of good discussion in that thread.

[[RCT]IsmaelVera]

Oh sweet Buddha yes...

[TitsOrGTFO]

very good suggestion + 1 from me

[[TGZ]stuvis]

Thnx for the support!

[[TGZ]stuvis]

Four griefers voted no. I see...

[Dany_Fantasy]

too many players search for a solution to cc faster which ends up in kicking someone who didn´t gave up allready(which was me many times) than trying to find a way to turn a game around...

i totally support this!

[[945]Psionic]

When it comes to a player griefing their own team or harassing players, the only people who have to deal with that **** is their own team. The entire idea that these things can be discussed is moronic. Vote kicks should have been team only from the very beginning and should be now.

A player does NOT have to be breaking the code of conduct in order to be kicked. The threshold between kick-able offenses and ban-able offenses is wide.

How does the other team know when a player is disrupting communication via spam, blocking spawns intentionally, using excess profanity, or a million other things that the other team could know NOTHING about and (even being told) could not know the extent of the issue? As far as I'm concerned, kicks for me ARE team only. I'm not going to ignore the other team if they're being forced to deal with a very unruly player.

Making this set of requirements a rule? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL... You'd be INSPIRING people to grief up to the limit of ban-ability. Ever have those kids in your game who blast music or something irritating over the mic all game? Yeah. Wouldn't get kicked. Would ban the kicker.

Hell no on this. Yes on team kicks only, Hell NO on this.

And yeah, we'd be causing a problem of unfair kicking on rare occasions. Even so, that happens FAR less than one person screwing with his team for his own enjoyment.

[Dragol]

I don't agree, they should just reduce the amount of thumbs up you need to kick someone to 8 or 7/10 instead so people aren't immune to being kicked if they have a friend.

[[TGZ]stuvis]

I don't agree, they should just reduce the amount of thumbs up you need to kick someone to 8 or 7/10 instead so people aren't immune to being kicked if they have a friend.

I really do not agree with you. If they would lower the amount of votes needed, then HoN will turn into a massive kick fest with at least one player kicked for no reason per game.

Can you please state why you do not agree with me?

[[TGZ]stuvis]

Well not sure if i understand it wrong. You want to decrease number of raports that s2 gets and at the same time demotivate players to make unargumentable kicks.

1. Complete fail of a plan. In situation that we have now, people kick smb and than we have 2 options that can happen. Person who got kicked report a player, or he just forgets the situation and play another game.

If you gonna write a massive post, read my post at least once. :P

With my idea, the kicked guy won't have to do anything but join a new game and enjoy the free leave from a troll game, because he is obviously getting griefed by his team if kicked for no reason.
If you gonna kick someone then you should have a valid reason. Now what is a valid reason you might ask? Basically anything valid to report a player for is a valid reason to kick for. With my suggestion, the player who initiated the kick HAS to fill a form after the game is finished before he can join any kind of game. If his reasons are not valid or he does not fill this form in three days, he will be punished for it.

example 1:
"****ING SWEDES GO PLAY TETRIS!!" says aluna and runs mid to feed before the creeps spawn. The team wanna win so player x initiates a kick vote and the team passes. After the game player x can't join any games until he filled the report form that popped up:
Reason: Intentional feeding
"I initiated a vote to kick aluna because he wanted to lose the game by feeding mid before the creeps spawn."

This is a valid reason to report for and the Aluna will get banned and the game was saved from being a troll fest. All will be happy, except for the griefer that now has some time to think over his crimes. Heh.

Example 2:

Player x is not willing to concede and tries to get his team to start playing and stop griefing. The others gave up after first blood and are not trying to win at all. Player y initiates a kick on player x and he gets kicked. Player x is a bit sad now but joins another game, no longer bound to the troll fest of the preivous game. The game is now over and the form popps up. Player y now has to fill this form to proceed to the next game. He writes something like:
"****ing noob don't wanna concede when game is over."

This is not a valid reason and player y will recieve the banhammer for griefing. Player x will recieve a mail telling him that player y has been banned for kicking for no reason. All happy except for the griefer again. ^^

2. I highly doubt it. In most of cases when i votekick smb means that the person completly destroyed the game for my team by: feeding, not listening to tips, not joining any fights or helping team, going to lanes where they shouldnt be (by team decision) and screwing other people lanning phase by that. Yes those are rage influented kicks, yes most of people does like that and yes, when smb make you play a 40 minutes game that give you no pleasure couz of 0% chance to win your so mad that will fill a form, which i can assure, would take little time. I.e.: reason: feeding/not listening to team/losing on purpose (writing of this =2-4s), date: 01.02.2012 (2-4s), game name: 156192569125691 (need to check so prob around 15-20s) but since its automatic report and voteinitiator have to write game will prob suggest that number so it wont take any time, name of kicked: like previous <- cant see any other sections that this raport could contain. So filing such a report would take like 4-30s, highly doubt that smb wouldnt spend that time since votekicks in my games usually pass with ratio maybe 1 in 3 days.

Thats my oppinion, maybe ive mistaken and players are completly different from me and from what i saw till now 1 thing is certain and you'r right, sth needs to be done with current votekick system couz trashpub players never pass the enemy kick vote since they prefer to boost their kd on griefieng players. Maybe making a system with 6 votes required to kick smb (4 from own team, 2 from enemy) would help? who knows :P

I have read this part multiple times and I am still confused... :P

Right now a lot of people are unaware that you can not longer report for kicking for no reason. My idea will completely change how you look at vote kicking. Vote kicks are spammed each game as soon as someone makes a mistake etc, and this is not how it should be. In my opinion you should only have the rights to kick someone for breaking the rules. If I were to kick all players who don't listen for example, the this would be a solo adventure game for me. :P

Read my whole idea again please and you will see I really meant. Try to imagine different scenarios.

[[TGZ]stuvis]

Bump

[Purifying]

I voted yes on this suggestion, because it is a good one!
Very well done, stuvis.
However, there are tweaks who needs sorting out. For instance, will the kicked player be allowed to enter a new game before the form is filled out? It may have been a good kick. AND, if the answer to the question above is no, how can we stop trolls from kicking a guy, make a new account, and watch as the kickee can't play for three days due to the "paperwork" not being dealt with? I guess the kicked player should be allowed to play as long as the form isn't filled out (innocent until proven guilty, not the other way around)