Plated Greaves vs. Steamboots: Survival of the Modern Age

[[AOWL]SmurfinBird]

Your reasons for creating the thread are completely justified and understood - The way I present my viewpoint as a counter point to Gaminos seems to make everything argumentative. Either way, all of the posts above would be unessential if his own objective view was not so self-contradicting.

We should be able to compare survivability on a basis of ratios of damage types by principle, yet since there is apparent disagreement I find it appropriate to respond.

If we couldn't, most of the mathematical explanations you yourself have made, macro, in regards to EHP would be void.

More OT, however, what are your thoughts on movespeed boosting survivability ? Plated have +10ms over steamboots, is this something to consider when taking into account maximum attacks an enemy can obtain while chasing as well as avoiding skillshots?

[[S2]MacroHard]

More OT, however, what are your thoughts on movespeed boosting survivability ? Plated have +10ms over steamboots, is this something to consider when taking into account maximum attacks an enemy can obtain while chasing as well as avoiding skillshots?

Let's put it this way. My wife buys red boots as a first item almost every game. More often than not that 50 ms saves her from giving first blood as she just barely outruns the enemy with 10 health remaining. For some people movespeed is the preferred method of survival.

(note, I do not recommend the above)

[[AOWL]SmurfinBird]

Let's put it this way. My wife buys red boots as a first item almost every game. More often than not that 50 ms saves her from giving first blood as she just barely outruns the enemy with 10 health remaining. For some people movespeed is the preferred method of survival.

(note, I do not recommend the above)

Nothing really calculable unless it's a straight line chase though I guess - deciding to chase under a tower early game etc is a human choice .

That is kind of what separates the boots though - static EHP and side abilities and movespeed (Ghosts unitwalk, Plated pushing, etc.)

[Dogbarf]

Im guessing a lot of has to do with the fact that you can make steamboots entirely at the outpost (6int item + gloves) where you have to courrier or go back to base for the plated. Just a thought

[[Bamn]GnarlyGoat]

By using the logic posted in the OP, could it be argued that Ringmail provides greater survivability than Fortified Bracers? If the +5 armour from Plated Grieves provides more survivability than the +10 strength you get from Steamboots, surely the +5 armour you get from Ringmail is even better than the +6 Strength you get from bracers. Taking this concept even further, how does the HP you get from Bracers compare to the +3 Armour that you get from The Ring Of The Teacher?

Most games I play I usually always grab at least one pair of bracers in the name of increasing survivability, but if what Macro says about Grieves Vs Steamboots can also be applied to Fortified Bracers maybe I’m better off buying Ringmail or Ring Of The Teacher instead. Obviously, the +3 to the other stats from Bracers is pretty useful, and it’s probably situational which one you would go for in any given game, but if we’re in the game of dispelling myths I think it’s worth investigating.

GnarlyGoat

[[AOWL]SmurfinBird]

By using the logic posted in the OP, could it be argued that Ringmail provides greater survivability than Fortified Bracers? If the +5 armour from Plated Grieves provides more survivability than the +10 strength you get from Steamboots, surely the +5 armour you get from Ringmail is even better than the +6 Strength you get from bracers. Taking this concept even further, how does the HP you get from Bracers compare to the +3 Armour that you get from The Ring Of The Teacher?

Most games I play I usually always grab at least one pair of bracers in the name of increasing survivability, but if what Macro says about Grieves Vs Steamboots can also be applied to Fortified Bracers maybe I’m better off buying Ringmail or Ring Of The Teacher instead. Obviously, the +3 to the other stats from Bracers is pretty useful, and it’s probably situational which one you would go for in any given game, but if we’re in the game of dispelling myths I think it’s worth investigating.

GnarlyGoat

Depends on the health before the bracer- think of it like magic armour's rule of "if you're under 1000hp, buy more hp. If you're over 1000hp, and under 5.5 armour, buy armour."

Ring of the Teacher gives +6 damage and a mana regen aura ontop of the armour though.

[[Y2EZ]triplej]

conclusion use :PlatedGreaves: for :jera:
its better especially when combined with Helm

Get Plated Greaves on Warbeast and I will do everything in my power to get an ICBM launched at your house. Leave Puzzlebox backdooring to KotF - he's a carry, plain and simple, and should be built as such.

Let's put it this way. My wife buys red boots as a first item almost every game. More often than not that 50 ms saves her from giving first blood as she just barely outruns the enemy with 10 health remaining. For some people movespeed is the preferred method of survival.

(note, I do not recommend the above)

I honestly thought this was a sexual metaphor when I first read it. Internet, what have you done to me?

Also, are you Will Ferrel?

[[5nK]Nytemair]

It's true, he is actually Will "MacroHard" Ferrel. ))

[Shamanovitch]

Supposing you can buy a bit more than your boots what are the pro and cons of :Steamboots:+:Ringmail: VS :PlatedGreaves:+:MysticVestments: ?

[Dominare]

what are the pro and cons of :Steamboots:+:Ringmail: VS :PlatedGreaves:+:MysticVestments: ?

The second pair will scale much, much better with your hit point total than the first pair, because it includes vestments.

[Radio_Raheem]

now if only they would follow your suggestion macro and make plated greaves at least equal to the sum of its parts. ofc, now that you've posted this, that would make plated greaves the #1 boots in no time.

[PonyPummeler]

HoN is filled with physical damage. Unlike another unnamed competing game, Heroes of Newerth contains many physical damage abilities.

LoL has actually plenty of physical damage abilities.

[[RGTG]Green]

Nooooo, don't tell all the noobs about my secret plated greaves

[Cyanotic]

These are some very good points.
I, like a lot of players end up ignoring Greaves for some reason.
Thanks for the statistics. I will try using Plated Greaves instead some games and see how it goes.

[Fen__]

I would still get steamboots on almost every int hero (if im not going for ghost marchers) if i can aford it early since +25 a.speed is huge at beggining of the game when everyone got similar dmg.

[[RCT]Assassine]

mind updating this for the greaves buff macro? They now give you 7.42 Armor if you manage to activate them.

[Sherwood]

I prefer platedgreaves on 'pure tank' or support (when not smushed) because it gives +2 to all stats, armour and an AOE armour buff. Most support heroes are int and will never switch steamboots to Int. Platedgreaves offers survivability whilst providing a smidgen of primary stat, a fair compromise. The armour as established is very nice. The use can buff allies as well which makes it a good universal support item as this the cheapest form of armour buff after ring of the teacher. You already will get boots anyway so you pay 800g. Sol's Bulwark is 1900g. Most melee physical semi carries will tend to make sols' bulwark after boots (and HOTBL). You risk conflict of interest. If it's a pub game, they'll put it on - anyway.

I wish there was more use for Shield of the Five. This item doesn't need to exist. Its only existence is to make Plated Greaves a more reliable and safer build up then a 800g upfront investment.

Since most ranged support won't really be in a position to auto attack, particular short-ranged ones like Andromeda, the attack speed won't be useful. Steamboots offer late game presence, but you shouldn't have that much farm.

[[MNI]Zapteinis]

These days you can build up plated greaves then later split and upgrade to steamboots and sac stone, profit?

[[PUBO]Sylfuris]

At the moment I'm in love with this topic, so let me pls bump to thank the author.

[[BU5K]Ryskaposten]

Firstly please don't respond to my posts with ridiculous troll quotes. You cannot apply a 50/50 magic/phys damage income ratio as a standard figure for all games. Its seriously retarded to even try as every game differs so much.

Secondly you cannot define survivability as Physical mitigation only, also in this point you contradict your previous 50%/50% point.

Thirdly the example given is referring to the Two boots in question Steam & Greaves, it does not apply to all the boots as this is not what the Thread is about. And also, striders are a rubbish pickup on the vast majority of heros only picked up when the income is tight but given an option no hero would ever pick striders.

You said it yourself, every game differs from the other, do not get the freaking plated if you are up against heavy nukes... Im just not sure if you are trolling or not, it's obvious that steamies are much better for hp than the armor from plated if they have no physical...