Thread: Plated Greaves vs. Steamboots: Survival of the Modern Age

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  1. #1
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    Plated Greaves vs. Steamboots: Survival of the Modern Age

    Updated as of v2.5.12

    Preface
    I constantly see Steamboots as a core pickup for many intelligence heroes, or strength/agi support heroes that rely on spells more than auto-attacks. The argument for Steamboots is that it gives "much needed survivability" on these otherwise squishy heroes. It seems, unfortunately, that most new players are conditioned to either use Striders or Steamboots when supporting.


    The "Much Needed Survivability" Argument
    Steamboots are generally recommended, and often preferred, because of the added +10 strength. It is a common misconception that this is an inexpensive way to boost the survival of support heroes, with an extra 10 movespeed to boot; not only will you have 190 more health you will also be slightly faster than the red boot alternative.


    Those "Other" Boots
    According to the item usage statistics, Plated Greaves are acquired 5.2% as often as Steamboots. That is not a typo; Steamboots are purchased nearly 20 times as often as Plated Greaves.


    The Truth About Survival
    HoN is filled with physical damage. Unlike another unnamed competing game, Heroes of Newerth contains many physical damage abilities. Steamboots may add 133 more health than Plated Greaves, but Plated Greaves adds 7.42 additional armor. If you run the numbers, that 7.42 armor provides more survival than 133 health for most mid to late game situations where physical damage becomes more prominent. In addition to better EHP, Plated Greaves (70 ms) are faster than Steamboots (60 ms), have an activateable that helps push enemy structures, and is less expensive to build.
    Note: Striders, Ghost Marchers, or Post Haste may still be preferred if mobility is more important than survival.
    Note: Players very skilled with stat manipulation for bottling may still want Steamboots.


    EHP Comparison
    EHP of Steamboots = (H+190)*(1+.06A)
    EHP of Plated Greaves = (H+57)*(1+.06*(A+7.42))

    For Plated Greaves to be more EHP than Steamboots,
    (H+57)*(1+.06*(A+7.42)) > (H+190)*(1+.06A)
    1.4452H+.06HA+82.3764+3.42A > H+.06HA+190+11.4A
    7.98A < .4452H-107.6236
    A < .05579H - 13.49

    This line is plotted as follows:

    As you can see, there are virtually zero situations where Steamboots provide more EHP than Plated Greaves.


    Factoring in Magic Damage
    "EHP is great and all, but there is magic damage in this game too. Additional health protects against magic, therefore Steamboots are still the better choice."

    Let...
    D = total incoming damage
    X = percentage of incoming damage D that is magic damage
    A = physical armor
    M = magic armor

    Plated Greaves and Steamboots give equal survival when...
    [(1-X)D/(1.4452+.06A)+XD/(1+.06M)]/(H+57) = [(1-X)D/(1+.06A)+XD/(1+.06M)]/(H+190)

    The solution to the above, solving for H in terms of D, X, A, and M is...
    H = (0.119497(-450AX + 450AMX - 450AM - 10839AX - 7500A + 6069MX - 6069M - 79500X - 101150))/((3M+50)(X-1))

    The graph of that solution for fixed values of M and X is...

    Even with heavy magic damage (50% of all incoming damage is magic), a hero with 1500 health and 15 armor will benefit more from Plated Greaves. This is a very common scenario as most support heroes tend to have low agility gain and generally neglect armor unless they have a Ring of the Teacher (only +3 armor), or intentions for Frostfield.


    Other Considerations
    • Plated Greaves are 147 gold cheaper, enough to buy that one extra ward or almost enough for a courier upgrade
    • Plated Greaves gives +59 health and +39 mana simultaneously (not much, but there nonetheless)
    • Plated Greaves provides +10 movespeed over Steamboots
    • Plated Greaves has an activate ability that buffs allied heroes, and significally buffs creeps and minions


    Conclusion
    Unless you need the attack speed, or are skilled at stat manipulation for bottling, heroes looking for survival should consider Plated Greaves over Steamboots.

    Quote Originally Posted by MacroHard View Post
    Everyone needs to stop arguing. Steamboots are amazing boots. They are great against medium to heavy magic teams. They have awesome synergy with bottling. The stat toggle can make the difference between life and death. The attack speed cannot be excluded.

    blah blah

    The point of this is as follows:
    • New players are often told to get steamboots for survival and just leave them on strength
    • There are a substantial number of cases where plated greaves adds more survival
    • HoN has many physical damage spells/heroes ( etc)
    • Plated Greaves is statistically used 5% as often as Steamboots
    • They are significantly under-represented considering that Steamboots are typically used as survival for non-attacking spellcasters


    No more arguing. Good players can clearly make their own choices. I just want to dispel this myth that Steamboots should be core for squishy spellcasters.
    Last edited by MacroHard; 03-07-2012 at 04:57 PM.
    When I was younger I had an imaginary friend.
    Now, with internet gaming, I have hundreds of imaginary friends.

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  2. #2

  3. #3
    I thought it was obvious enough, but in all truth, both boots have their charm. Stat cycling is awesome to have for many heroes, but Plated Greaves are great for tankiness and pushing, so it really depends on the hero and role. But yeah, plated greaves is incredibly good for supports.

  4. #4
    I'm guessing this was annoying you when people were buying steamboots on tanky-style heroes?

    Thank you for the explanations, I look forward to the segment on magic armour. EDIT: Oh you added it without me realising. Thank you!

    In the part : EHP is great and all, but there is magic damage in this game too.

    EHP includes magic damage, no? Effective health points or something along those lines?

    I understand what you are getting at but EHP can include either terms I thought.
    #reinstateapostate

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmurfinBird View Post
    I'm guessing this was annoying you when people were buying steamboots on tanky-style heroes?

    Thank you for the explanations, I look forward to the segment on magic armour. EDIT: Oh you added it without me realising. Thank you!

    In the part : EHP is great and all, but there is magic damage in this game too.

    EHP includes magic damage, no? Effective health points or something along those lines?

    I understand what you are getting at but EHP can include either terms I thought.
    Magic Armor up. I did something new with this one, where rather than assume a fixed magic damage amount I took it as a percentage of total damage. I may include this in my full EHP guide in the near future.

    And yes, I have seen one too many with Steamboots.
    Last edited by MacroHard; 01-19-2012 at 07:30 PM.
    When I was younger I had an imaginary friend.
    Now, with internet gaming, I have hundreds of imaginary friends.

    -American proverb

  6. #6
    I feel as though the extra 133 HP is going to help me survive more in most situations. Getting caught by a carry in late game, I'm dead in the water. He's going to have significant attack damage to take me down quickly. I would rather be able to tank more damage from magic than try to get out of a situation I know I can't otherwise. /non-mechanics post

  7. #7
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    btw they get steam boots for the raw hp they give, right now in the 1800 bracket in Garena HoN. The team is formed mostly by 4 caster and 1 physical carry. (Or a zepher and a dw).

    I still think the decision is still up to the picks.

  8. #8
    Nice graphs indeed. I certainly thought that you needed much less armor before plated grieves was effective. Ty Macro.

  9. #9
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    Sweet, I'll probably start buying these a lot more when I'm not bottle-togging steam.
    Premium Tips and Tricks Guide: http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/sh...php?p=14769758

    I miss when HoN was...y'know, good.

  10. #10
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    Cons:

    Pro Steamboots microers will get bored



    :3

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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElementUser View Post
    Cons:

    Pro Steamboots microers will get bored



    :3
    There are exceptions, of course. I never said Plated Greaves are always better. I just want people to realize that Plated Greaves should be considered when you don't really need the attack speed. They are simply too good to justify the 20-to-1 usage rate.
    When I was younger I had an imaginary friend.
    Now, with internet gaming, I have hundreds of imaginary friends.

    -American proverb

  12. #12
    indeed i use plated grieves occasionally on supports, but i do tend to find the extra attack speed more useful most the time(and sometimes even the extra int when you switch for when you urgently need a tiny bit more mana for a spell or an extra bit of damage on your auto attack)

    no doubt though i reckon it prob should be used a bit more often


  13. #13
    I like it better when people I play against don't weigh the options and end up following guides. If you could quit brining light to overlooked factors that'd be great.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by BigBoss00 View Post
    I like it better when people I play against don't weigh the options and end up following guides. If you could quit brining light to overlooked factors that'd be great.
    Yeah, I agree. I'm going revise my opinion to this, stop being so damn useful Macro!
    #reinstateapostate

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by BigBoss00 View Post
    I like it better when people I play against don't weigh the options and end up following guides. If you could quit brining light to overlooked factors that'd be great.
    trollface.jpg

    Over 44% of the other players in a match, is on your team... (5vs5)
    Keep posting Macro, some ppl like an increasing challenge as well as less baddies.

    Nice graphs, babe!

  16. #16
    I don't solo queue.

  17. #17
    Devils advocate;

    This is PROPAGANDA. The +as and stat cycling gets a tiny mention whilst the benefits of +armour gets the full equation+graph treatment.

    Absolutely agree greaves should be bought more but it's a fine line as gankers/initiators like tiny/magmus should usually be blowing their 100% magic damage damage on the the CC-heavy enemy (often support) who can be efficient just be spamming their fire-and-forget spells.

    I also feel that +armour doesn't benefit a support much in the late game, when you take into account the enemy carry autoattacking for 200-300 and the support having ~1.2k hp -> treads better in the long term. (could be totally wrong on this though; you can easily sway me with more swanky graphs).

  18. #18
    conclusion use :PlatedGreaves: for
    its better especially when combined with Helm
    Last edited by DarkAgonizer; 01-20-2012 at 07:00 PM.

  19. #19
    I like to play Tanky Tort.....But when i mid i get steamboots for the bottle abuse and sometimes it safes my life to swap from str to int (being low on mana for your tp).

    Maybe il just start with a pair of SB, sell them and buy plated midgame, it isnt that expensive.

  20. #20
    Does the fact that the enemy may be using Shieldbreaker have a positive effect on the comparison between Greaves and Steamboots or does it make no difference?

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