The very problem of having the nuke being only targetable on an enemy is that it's completely out of your control how that damage will be distributed - and therefore easily countered.
Geo's my most played, and honestly I only have one qualm with him currently: his level 1 ult costs WAY too much mana. If it got dropped to 100 or 150 he'd be a much stronger hero. Right at level 6 if you go 1131, and built mana items, you just don't have enough mana to pull off your 4 ability combo, and seeing as how your ult is the most likely to miss, that's usually the one I skip out on casting.
As is, I don't grab ult until level 8 when I have a power supply and a grave amulet to support the massive mana costs, going for 2140 as my level 7 skill build.
He's also got some interesting bugs, like being able to burrow out of Glacius's stun, that make him pretty impossible to kill once you get him down.
I do love how impossible it is to escape the hero, between a massive blink/stun, Quicksand giving vision, and Earth's Grasp showing through the fog. I also love how rewarding he feels when you get your ult off.
I'm at 66% win rate in both NM(1650) and CM(1710) with him with 41 games played, but both of those are skewed down from the early period when I was still learning him and skilling him wrong (skipping Earth's Grasp). In my past 10 games of Geo, I've won 8 of them.
To the Earth's Grasp naysayers, try using it again. With the radius buff so that you need 360 MS to escape it, for the first 10 minutes of the game it's a reliable 400 point nuke with no followup. Later in the game you just need to combo it with Quicksand and you still get 360-400 damage out of it.
Last edited by PicardsFlute; 01-20-2012 at 08:56 PM.
I was in the survey.
Geo doesn't fit into all line-ups, but pair him with a mobile carry and another aoe stun and he is a solid pick.
If I was to suggest a buff it would be an increase on the cast range of Quicksand as it will allow him to set up ganks and chase down enemies more effectively, and in doing so synergise with his other abilities.
I played a few more games tonight, and a few of points seemed less valid and some were made even more clear
Earth's Grasp is actually pretty cool if you go dig/eg/eg/dig/eg/ult/eg
works great for getting kills
I will max it from now on
However, something that was made more obvious (that I had mentioned before) was his terrible survivability.
I literally am a sacrificial pawn if I have to initiate for my team early-mid game. Unless it is a horribly one sided gank not near an enemy tower, there is a good chance I'll die. The stun on dig is only 1.5 seconds, and if you are with a hero(s) who don't have a follow up, odds are good the first person the enemies will focus down is you.
He needs some bulk, or more time to make a get away.
Well generally speaking, anyone who does not follow up on the initiator, assuming the initiator isn't a moron, are probably bad. That or there was some very poor communication occurring.
Not saying that you're wrong, just noting most initiators will die on their initiation if they get no follow up.
geo is a bad magmus.
I sort of disagree with that statement with a buffed Earth Grasp, since it fundamentally shifts his playstyle away from the mobile ganker/initiator piece and puts it more squarely into the realms of GTFO my lane while I spam you. It means he has a mechanism by which he can exploit early farm to fist a lane.
Having said this, I still don't think he's particularly strong, because he still has to get a farm lead over his lane to do it.
From here, the only change I want to see off the bat is Grasp targettable on allies, which opens the possibility of him being used a little bit like Dark Seer as a trade off laner (suicide solo). I always thought this ability should have had that anyway, and was surprised to find it didn't.
I don't think Grasp can be buffed much more than that without becoming broken, and I can't see buffs to Quicksand or Ult (the other abilities which are underwhelming) doing much to get around his laning phase, which remains mediocre. With this in mind, I think either of them could stand to be buffed, so long as it's in a creative way (linger time on Quicksand is another obvious place to look, or a rethink on the cast range of Crystal Field to start to bring it into the realms of some of the other disruptive AOE teamfighting ults like Black Hole, Release the Kraken, Kelp Field, Epicenter, Reign of Chaos and Echoslam).
At the moment, he remains a very forgettable hero, despite mostly having a desirable concept.
I feel he's occupying an awkward place between Magmus and HB, and it's an unhappy marriage at present. The manacosts are good (harks back to the olden days when heroes had to pay for capability), the concept is basically sound, but the execution hangs him out to dry against his competitors.
I still stick with my stance on him needing more beef. The biggest reason I don't pick him in games all the time is because he is a frail melee hero.
That and teams I get are always under the assumption that he is a terrible hero. I do fine with him in most of my games, and my teams (and opponents) are usually surprised at how good he can be in the hands of someone who doesn't underestimate his abilities.
If I went into a lane with more hp (like 570+) at the start (assuming no +stat items), I would feel a lot better about geo.
I understand blacksmith needs the tankiness a bit more because he does not have an aoe stun or escape, but using geos stun as an initiate (like I had said before) leaves you pretty exposed
In regards to the guy commenting about bad team/bad initiate/no communication, I mean those things do play a part in some of my games (I am not perfect), but even on a planned gank, once you land that stun, you still want to put down a well placed ult (which takes more than a second to think about) and land quicksand/earths grasp, depending on what the situation calls for.
And after that then what? Assume the other team had a clutch blinking jereziah (hypothetical, but you get the point) with a barrier idol. 3 or 4 of them are still up, and your **** is on CD.
You can like, melee or just wait until more cd's are up. The thing is, quicksand and earths grasp are a little bit on the longer scale. Again, being a weak melee with very little base beef stats puts him in a bad situation.
I just keep mulling over his survivability more than anything.
i am only 1600mmr, but played Geo in hundreds of games (50% Geo with this acc). I have a totally new approach to this. I think he suffers from something else, than stats etc...
His slow, Qicksand, does no damage.
Unlike Martyrs slow, unlike Revanant's slow, unlike Bombadier's slow, unlike blacksmith's slow, and so on.
That's why, you wont get assist gold if a teammate kills the enemy hero you just slowed. This has a huge impact especially for a ganker/roamer. I payed games, where I had a great presence, but of course left all kills to the carrys, and did not get much assists in return. We have to keep in mind, that Geomancer is melee. So just autoattacking once to be able to participate is not always an option. Just with giving Geo's slow, Quicksand, a bit of damge to make him trigger the assist, would have a great impact on him as it is one of the main sources a ganker/roamer gets income from.
This guy definately needs some love, might be just in the numbers.
the problem with geo is that his design is a ****ing roller-coaster. all spells are jumping into extremes.
-dig is 50/50 spell, either hit or miss, and if you miss you are totally screwed. you didnt stun, you didnt do any damage and now you'll most likely die because u dont have escape mech. i'd like homing system being implemented there (being able to slightly alter dig path) or dig speed buffed.
-quicksand is useless unless leveled, and without damage from grasp and dig geo is worthless so you cant have your only slow before lvl 14.
-earth grasp is retardedly strong early game, especially if geo is mid, however boots **** him up completely mid game which is dumb. need to buff ms limit to 385 so magebane with steams cant outrun it. only ghost marchers should be able to do so.
-ultimate is so easy to avoid that is not even fun. and if it hits, its most likely only 1 person. aoe is pathetic.
Increase his stun duration to 1.75 seconds, and the AOE of his natures grasp slightly.
Geo has a good concept, but with current numbers he is basically a bad Magmus.
Dig seems solid, works as a good stun or escape, is balanced by the linear movement. Quicksand is ok if you plan to gank aggressively and need additional slow, also helps at hitting both ultimate and Earth's Grasp at further point in the game.
Earth's Grasp is fine with recent changes.
But I think the ultimate is a bit underwhelming right now. The concept is good, additional AoE damage and stun for long cast time, but the damage and stun duration isn't anything phenomenal.
Some kind of buff to ultimate might do the trick. It already has long cooldown and cast time, so it needs either ridiculous range, stun type/duration or damage.