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Earth's Grasp is up there for one of the most underrated skills in the game. Probably on the same tier as Inhuman Nature.
Ulti isn't near as hard to land as it is made out to be. You can't land it yourself, no. But, you have four teammates. Guess what? A good Soulstealer ultimate is bloody near impossible to land by yourself. That's why you get a Hellbringer on your team.
Something about Dig feels, well, shitty, but it's not bad entirely. 1.5 second stun is iffy I guess. I'd say maaaaaybe a little more travel speed, but that's also pretty iffy. Can't see the stun getting any longer though for him.
The op has a point about stats, BS works because he's got stupid good stats gains, this hero doesn't have that sort of help to be a good melee int. Combine a bad animation with bad attack damage (BS also has crazy good attack damage from level 1) and it makes laning feel clumsy, balanced only out by how good Earth's Grasp is.
I love Geo.
What I think would make him a better hero would be to lower the cooldown on his slow, there's really no need for it to be that high.
His ult could be reduced to a 2 second delay or the superior magic stun that somebody suggested as it doesn't really pay off for how hard it is to land something on a 3 second delay. Compared to heroes like mag and behe who have ults that are more powerful in many situations with no delay, just a portal key requirement.
On the other hand, something fun I could suggest that might be OP would be a 3 second channel on his ult and then you can click anywhere around you (within the cast range it already has, maybe reduced cast range) to make the ult hit there instantly. This would still keep his advantage of not requiring a portal key but would make his ult much more reliable.
Would allowing earths grasp to be used on allies make it a lot better?
Last edited by smurfberrys; 01-17-2012 at 05:36 AM.
Earth's Grasp on allies would be an interesting quirk for farming, but I feel it would have little practical use offensively against heroes.
Let me spell it out plain for you
Angry people complain about the things I do
I'm not changing direction, I'm stepping my game up
Maintaining my name, the same way I came up.
Truth is, I thought it mattered
I thought that music mattered.
But does it? Bollocks!
Not compared to how people matter.
And lots of other stuff already said. I actually played Geo for the first time a few days ago, and I immediately noticed that Magmus would've been a better pick against any lineup. Some points to tackle, all could start with "compared to Magmus".Originally Posted by Cyber_Kun
1. Stun is too easy to dodge/miss all together, but is better for survival with its longer distance. Skill fails to be a good initiation skill with the small stun and small aoe.
2. Quicksand, I really feel like this skill is crap, you really have to take too many points into it for it to become useful, and because of that, you can't really take it at all early in the game. 250 AoE hinders the spell for later use.
3. Earth's Grasp seems to be the only semi good skill Geo has. The damage is undodgeable in early game, and it does A LOT of damage even with a few points in it. Outrunned by Ghost Marchers, which hurts the hero a lot. Really great for harrassing and getting early kills, good for jungle/ancient farming too.
4. Ult is bullshit. A 3 second delay on a 300 damage spell makes it almost useless. The skill is impossible to hit without several stuns on the target or a Sheepstick, effectively making it only good for ancient farming.
To Above:
Even if you are hexed you can avoid his Ultimate. Hex gives you 100 move speed for ~3 seconds (for this argument) and the Ultimate range is 300.So From the middle you have to travel 300 units (at a movespeed of 100) over 3 seconds... Surprise, you're out!
His Ultimate is not meant to be a standalone "initiation" because it is terrible for that, as a follow up he is good.
Still, the same can be said about anyone (Magmus follow up a HB for example), and it still remains that the Ultimate is fairly lackluster for what it takes to set up.
The sign of lost Carcosa appeared in the air, paralyzing us with dread older than the very idea of time.
As we looked on in horror, the unholy sign dissolved into a lone figure, shrouded in yellow.
i never have a problem with this hero, quick sand is really... really... really.... good.
borderline hero, with need of some tweaks rather than some big adjustments.
Maybe everyone can put a concise list of what tweaks you think he needs?
I'll start by saying:
-Superior Magic on his Ult
-1 second reduced cooldown on the stun
-Large enough AOE on Earth's Grasp to prevent damage from being ran away from unless 400+ MS (Basically, enough to make someone pop their ghost marchers to avoid the damage)
-Slight survivability buffs (Starting health, armor)
I personally would like being able to cast Earth's Grasp on myself or an ally carry, so that when the carry, let's say MB, chases someone the nuke will damage the target. Of course, it'll be very nice to see that pulse not being able to be outran.
Edit: Or outran less easily.
Last edited by RequiemXE; 01-17-2012 at 09:02 PM.
Increase Dig's range
Quick Sand is fine
Earth's Grasp is damn boring.. make it castable on self/ally like above poster said
Ultimate is fine, give it sotm.
Rather than being ally-castable I'd like earth's grasp to remain on a dead target for the rest of its duration, making it much better for destroying creep waves.
Wonder if it would be under/overpowered if they just changed EG to be like:
-Similar radius of ult
-40 damage/half second over 5 seconds
-Targeted AREA, not HERO
I imagine you stun, quicksand, drop EG on the area (and/or ult)
Deals damage to all targets in the area for the alotted time.
It would be better for creep waves, but slightly worse for harass early game (as heroes can just move out of it instead of having it cast on them)
thoughts? bad? good? terrible? stfu eep?
suggestion forum.
Let me spell it out plain for you
Angry people complain about the things I do
I'm not changing direction, I'm stepping my game up
Maintaining my name, the same way I came up.
Truth is, I thought it mattered
I thought that music mattered.
But does it? Bollocks!
Not compared to how people matter.
Dig > Stun duration increased from 1.5 to 1.75
Quick Sand > Radius increased from 250 to 325
Crystal Field > Radius increased from 300 to 350
Crystal Field > Stun is now superior
See, I can give suggestions. Anyways, does anyone have anything interesting to bring up with this hero?
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The forums are NOT for reporting players. If you wish to report a player, please use the in-game R.A.P. Function.
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"All they do is expound their store of knowledge. They excite themselves with their ranting; their disapproval swells them with a feeling of importance and sick victory, they thrive on spoiling the pleasure and trashing the creativity of others."
The Minister shares her opinion of critics. ~ Kino's Journey
In my very limited experiences with him as a solo short lane, and as a "semi-roamer" - he really needs a one-point wonder of a skill.
He has 3 basic skills that need levels, and that makes him horrifically level dependent.
Quicksand is devastating as a slow when levels are put in it, especially around the midgame BUT as soon as you get out of it, you're basically fine. This is an issue, because unless you're sucked right into the middle of it or have it placed straight on top of you, you're not going to rack up enough charges on the slow to really make it matter as a skill - with a 20sec cd to boot.
Often, you're just better off just standing in the quicksand and attacking, since the penalty for each attack made is pitiful compared to even trying to run out. This is ok and all, but when you need only run 250 units to then have the slow wear off instantly makes it an underwhelming skill.
Earth's Grasp is his main way to inflict damage when lanes break, and it also allows him to push lanes and farm like nobody's business. It's a 400 damage nuke that you can lasthit to easily, for 100 mana. Anyone who thinks Earth's Grasp is terrible really needs to take a look at how ridiculously damage:mana efficient it is.
With Earth's Grasp being as good as it is at farming though, this means a Geomancer can reasonably expect to get a minimum of farm. This is at odds wih his stated schtick of being "a Magmus-type initiator who doesn't need Portal Key".
Yes, you don't need Portal Key, but what else do you need? Mana Ring is amazing on him (solves 2 of his issues, one replenish is a free Dig or Grasp to farm), but past that - there's a clear lack of outstanding synergy in terms of itemization for him.
I can see Puzzlebox working for him well after the patch, but sadly if he's expected to initiate, he's going to be doing so to his suicide a lot. And really, Puzzlebox kinda works for everyone.
Bottom line is, he's not a reliable primary initiator, and his cc rotation with minimum levels does not allow him to gank as effectively as others who are. Making Dig a one-point wonder (full range on level 1 and better damage scaling, it's a pitifully small aoe and lesser stun duration compared to most), Quicksand better to drop points into for the midgame (linger time on slow and/or larger aoe) are the key issues for him - NOT making Earth's Grasp (his incidental spell) better, or making his ultimate a superior stun (wtf is this ****?).
Let me spell it out plain for you
Angry people complain about the things I do
I'm not changing direction, I'm stepping my game up
Maintaining my name, the same way I came up.
Truth is, I thought it mattered
I thought that music mattered.
But does it? Bollocks!
Not compared to how people matter.
Hey now Anakha, my suggestion for superior stun was to force someone to respond. Now that we are basically in agreement... what now?
Game Masters are not S2 Games employees. My posts in no way represent the view of S2 Games or any of its staff.
The forums are NOT for reporting players. If you wish to report a player, please use the in-game R.A.P. Function.
-----------------------------
"All they do is expound their store of knowledge. They excite themselves with their ranting; their disapproval swells them with a feeling of importance and sick victory, they thrive on spoiling the pleasure and trashing the creativity of others."
The Minister shares her opinion of critics. ~ Kino's Journey
The Dig ability could use a buff where you are able to control geomancer while he is underground, but with a VERY low turnrate. So it would be harder to avoid it.
The earth grasp really need a fix or completly remade. Early on it can work for harrasment, but its not really worth it. And once you have skilled sand + dig, your enemy got a high movementspeed, so its totally nevermind having it.
The earth grasp could be removed, and the new ability could be one that scales more, so he cant actually do something lategame.
Im not really sure what it should be though. Maybe something that buffs his other abilities. Like: Dig ministunes people you dig underneath, and quicksand has a damage effect, and the ult triggers faster.
I really feel like Earth's Grasp is still pointlessly complicated. Maybe it's because Quicksand is underwhelming, and if the two were combined it would make the skill far more effective to use on players.
As a farming tool, it's great. As early game harass, sure. But once everyone gets upgraded boots, it's still relatively easy to outrun.
Nearly all other damage sources are reliable or completely within your control in this game, and I think that's an important aspect. They're either based on your hero's position/timing, or your placement of a skill (be that ground, or the target you use it on). It's the primary reason skills like Battle Hunger (dota - Axe), Sage's Lore, and Hemorrhage are underwhelming/hated. They put all of the control into your opponents hands and take it away from you. It may force a "damned if you do; damned if you don't" situation which isn't always bad, but I think it's better used in terms of something like Balphagore's ult (he either does what he wants to you, or you charge up his ult to stop him/slow him down) where the damage and positioning are within his control.
Maybe I'm alone in that thought *shrug*
HONOR- If you need it defined, you don't have it.
Grasp is a good skill, when will you look at it as unavoidable? It is not always unavoidable and deals a whopping 400 magic damage over the course of its duration for a meager amount of mana.
You can trail people with it, its undeniable, and you need more than 360 movespeed while moving in a straight line only to avoid it. You can farm with it and output significant damage to a wounded player who is juking, as you can follow them due to the pulses and moving in patterns that are not straight lines will cause them damage due to the AoE.
He just needs some number changes; not a full rework.
The sign of lost Carcosa appeared in the air, paralyzing us with dread older than the very idea of time.
As we looked on in horror, the unholy sign dissolved into a lone figure, shrouded in yellow.
He is strong early-mid game, but pretty unreliable later on, when it comes to teamfights.
In early levels the combination of Dig and Earth's Grasp is devastating.
His attack animation is terrible, which makes lasthitting a pain, but you will most likely net some kills/assists in the laning phase given you have a decent lane partner.
Once you have some form of mana regen you can start taking their lanes apart.
In teamfights you are heavily reliant on your team knowing how your skills work - even more so than other heroes. You have to keep the oppsing team locked down while your ult builds up. If it hits, you will probably win the fight.
90% of the time it won't hit.
I've seen some ppl build stormspirit on Geo to make sure you hit at least one target 100%. This also enables you to successfully solo gank people.
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