[2.5.4] Vulture lord.

[[MNI]Erg]

That creep is overpowered like hell. You can take out a triple stack so easily with him.

[[VGG]Glibber`]

Personally I don't like the tornado/vulture, but it's actually really good to harass a lane with and also good for clearing stacked camps.

Vagabond leader isn't bad, especially early game. Just gets outshined by other creeps.

[Roefl]

I use vulture lord for stacked small/medium camps, it's actually pretty decent, Loses effect later on in the game though, but Ophelia loses viability late game too (not being worthless, but whenever enemy can 5 hit the creeps It's not to good anymore)/

[PrestonLee]

After all, Vagabond Leaders aren't too useful either

wut, Vagabond Leaders low cooldown ranged nuke and health regen aura. probably my favorite of the hard creeps, ez first blood and free regen after

vulture lord, not so much

[Ripoff]

Its not only the tornado that is a problem, it gives alot less xp/gold compared to the other heavy camps aswell. Its quite a deciding factor for parasite and pherhaps other junglers who would like to take a heavy camp at level 1.

Parasite dings well above level 2 after a skeleton camp, but afaik he doesnt even reach level 2 with a vulture lord. Forcing him to wait another 30 seconds before gaining level 2.

Buffing this may seem like a stupid idea, since it buffs parasite, a hero who doesnt need buffs. But this is just pure RNG stupidity. You have a chance to ding level 2, or you dont. All heavy camps should allow the hero to ding level 2 after one camp.

Pretty sure Catmen, Vagabond and Skeleton camps allows for this, while vulture lords/minotaur doesnt. ^Citation needed.

Almost off topic, but still close enough.

Any1 got an opinion on this matter? The xp difference? Its just pure RNG stupidity if you ask me.

[[P5F]Mr`Imperator]

Any1 got an opinion on this matter? The xp difference? Its just pure RNG stupidity if you ask me.

I haven't really checked the numbers, but one would believe that the creeps should give exp according to the difficulty in taking them down, and the vulture lord, although being a hard hitter, dosen't use his skills compared to catman and so on.

[Ripoff]

I haven't really checked the numbers, but one would believe that the creeps should give exp according to the difficulty in taking them down, and the vulture lord, although being a hard hitter, dosen't use his skills compared to catman and so on.

True then, then in my opinion, he should be buffed. Or maybe not him himself, maybe the screechers. Maybe they could a tiny passive effect to the little birdies next to him. Because atm, its probably one of the worst spawns, next to minotaurs, but they can atleast be used to gank with.

[[f13]`11411181]

Get numbers for the exp difference, as well as exp required to level; then i'll give you an opinion.

[Ripoff]

http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/sh...ad.php?t=50886

So the vulture lord gives 119, while the screechers gives 25 each.
Which is 169 Experience.

While a catman camp gives (119+88) 207.
I know you will ding level 2 from a catman camp, so I guess you need 200xp to ding level 2.

Skeleton camp: 155+62+62 = 279. I knew already knew the skeleton camp gave absurdly much xp. And it doesnt have much damage or hp. And its great to gank with. AND it gives 3 units in its camp, this is good for legio/balph etc. Afaik, it gives less gold then catman/vagabond, but still, the xp is almost to much. I'd say nerf the xp from the skeleton camp, and raise it with the vulture lord.

Vagabond camp: 155+41+88 = 284xp.

Minotaur: 119+41 = 160xp. But the minotaur is probably the greatest creep to gank with.

Edit: Just so we avoid buffing ophelia and parasite, I'd say buff the screechers.

[DeepWaters]

For my money, the creep is sub standard, but I'm not sure if this is a huge enough issue or not. After all, Vagabond Leaders aren't too useful either: it just so happens that Ophelia can't use all the hard creeps to gank effectively.

vagabonds has hp regen aura and a very annoying nuke which can be spammed twice and more with items like manaring and RoT, that are now much easier to optain early game.

[[ScBr]MadPsycho]

I don't think he should be changed (unless you really want to give him the +armor aura from his DotA counterpart). As it stands, his tornado is good for harassing lanes and for taking out stacked camps. Not every creep camp should have the same utility.

[Repugnance]

Slap a +1.5 mana regen aura for vulturelords. Suddenly too good to pass off.

[`1985`]

even with the cd lowered it doesnt have the mana to cast a 2nd

easier to covert 4 more vulture lords than wait

[echelon]

Love killing this creep camp. Can't have it all. Just leave it.

[[f13]`11411181]

http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/sh...ad.php?t=50886

So the vulture lord gives 119, while the screechers gives 25 each.
Which is 169 Experience.

While a catman camp gives (119+88) 207.
I know you will ding level 2 from a catman camp, so I guess you need 200xp to ding level 2.

Skeleton camp: 155+62+62 = 279. I knew already knew the skeleton camp gave absurdly much xp. And it doesnt have much damage or hp. And its great to gank with. AND it gives 3 units in its camp, this is good for legio/balph etc. Afaik, it gives less gold then catman/vagabond, but still, the xp is almost to much. I'd say nerf the xp from the skeleton camp, and raise it with the vulture lord.

Vagabond camp: 155+41+88 = 284xp.

Minotaur: 119+41 = 160xp. But the minotaur is probably the greatest creep to gank with.

Edit: Just so we avoid buffing ophelia and parasite, I'd say buff the screechers.

Without reading into the incidentals too much (time-constrained right now), I'd agree with your analysis superficially for now. Just figured I'd make a post to say I haven't ignored this!

[[WeSo]tobbe628]

I pray for the sake of newerth, that this will get through to the so called balance group.

[Ripoff]

Without reading into the incidentals too much (time-constrained right now), I'd agree with your analysis superficially for now. Just figured I'd make a post to say I haven't ignored this!

Cheers, was waiting for your post ! :P

[[P5F]Mr`Imperator]

even with the cd lowered it doesnt have the mana to cast a 2nd

easier to covert 4 more vulture lords than wait

yes it does, the spell takes 1/2 of his mana pool.

[[AOWL]SmurfinBird]

Does FAR too much damage and slow vs a level 1 mid. When playing parasite / ophelia, I use that and ward between the towers and steal mid's bottle off the courier. Combined with the tornado, it's more effective that dual midding.

Now that IS situational whether or not you obtain a vulture.

On a more on-topic note - not all jungle creeps need the same power as others. I've seen the vultures being used in the middle of a team fight and the slow's AoE is large enough to cover the whole area - it's VERY effective in this but needs good micromanagement and setting up. This creep has too much power in situations, and is too weak in others. It's up to a rework to make it even but I don't see it being the worst thing in the world to have this creep in the game.

[[f13]`11411181]

If you really wanted to buff the creep, you'd make the radius on the tornado 100-200 units larger.