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I'm serious , whatever i do people say i don't do enough [ even when we win ] .
If i make charged hammer : they say no dmg
If i make shroud-genjuro : too little participation
If i make geometer : too little dmg output and not teamfight-y and stuff.
I made alchemist bones [ there's no real reason NOT to , it just helps alot ] , they spammed cc cause of it .
Also i seem to loose with 150 creeps at min 35 and stuff like that ... , what is the early build to maintain a high morale?
:EnhancedMarchers:>>>>:SavageMace:>>
aemonicBreastplate/:Riftshards:>>:Riftshards:/
Why ghost marchers instead of threads?
:Steamboots: ->-> :ShrunkenHead: or :SavageMace: -> :GeometersBane: and :FrostwolfsSkull: -> :Wingbow:
Last edited by Typhon_Edu; 12-27-2011 at 08:26 PM.
treads
mkb
mkb
mkb
mkb
mkb/sh
Dont worry about hp, abuse your range. I go :ghos: ---> :shie: ---> :sava:
For some reason i don't really trust mkb as a powerful item ,it just add dmg and SOME attack , it's not rly a gamechanger unless wingbow is involved...
the most success ive had with flint =
middle lane
bottle, power supply, phase boots, firebrand, icebrand, savage mace
sometimes i will get a shrunken or nullstone if they are necessary
on flint it is amazing because you mini-stun nearly every hit.Originally Posted by iKyi
Steamboots / Ghost Marchers >> frostburn >> Charged Hammer >> Savage Mace >> Frostwolf + Geometers >> Wingbow
nullstone and bkb - situational, but important. dont skip it.
gm + firebrand gives really nice attack positioning for the low life your gonna be running around with...his stat gain/range/no escape is made like a glass cannon, why go against the flow?
edit: gm is not something you can "theorycraft" well, the benefit of unitwalking is huge and the speed when you need it is clutch
Last edited by treefitty; 12-27-2011 at 10:41 PM.
Makes sense.
I'm gonna try out your suggestions but it's kind of what i've been doing all along , kind of , the main issue it seems is the fact that flint is a farm-oriented hero and the other fail-lanes are constantly asking for gang , i know it's LOL to some people but it happens , almost always.
I have yet to see any reason not to build alchemist bones...
I'm gonna build it thinking of what you said , but i suspect i need at least 4-5 games with it so i can get convinced if it's a good idea or not...
Alchemist bones are really mediocre on flint. If you want a reason not to get them, it's because they cost 1900 gold for a pitiful attack speed boost and don't pay for themselves until late in the game. While they aren't concede worthy, there are definitely much better items for flint.
Your problem seems to be that you play flint WAY too passively. He's amazing early game and you should take advantage of this through early treads or phaseboots, wraiths, and ganks. In a way, these items pay for themselves much better than alchemist bones, but rather than purely farming yourself, you're also denying enemy farm by killing them. As soon as you hit 6 you should aim for a kill. Don't get alchemist bones and farm all day, you aren't wildsoul.
Last edited by Savos; 12-28-2011 at 12:11 AM.
I will consciously try that ... Thanks.
^ what he said
1000g/10 min isn't that special and 30 attack speed is ok, but when you could demoralize the enemy team with ganks/winning teamfights with more efficient items
:Steamboots:
after that, :SavageMace:/:Wingbow::Riftshards:
i prefer savage cuz you will ministun nonstop and will be able to rape every1 in the game.
:Steamboots::ShrunkenHead::FrostwolfsSkull::Geomet ersBane::SavageMace::Wingbow:/:Riftshards: you cant win, then you're bad,because with that you should be killing everything in 4 sec maximum.
Flint has a monster late game. It is important to play like a squishy ranged carry with no escape (aka. be greedy).
Charged hammer is pretty bad. Daemonic is better in almost every case. Daemonic gives similar attack speed, slightly less damage, more survivability and more useful build up. Charged hammer gives slightly more damage that is completely and utterly negated by shrunken, an activated shield that's completely useless on a hero like flint because he shouldn't be taking autoattacks (and when he does trade blows, charged active is not remotely enough to help) and no survivability.
Shroud-Genjuro is pretty garbage. If you need shroud for positioning, you're doing it wrong because you shouldn't need to. If you have bad positioning, the quick fix is to be better at the game, not to spend 3300 on a subpar item. Shrunken gives less DPS and A LOT MORE SURVIVABILITY. Geometers gives A LOT MORE SURVIVABILITY, albeit, the disjointing and dispelling debuffs is not that obvious to most beginners. Don't ever get shroud on Flint, it's really not worth it. It's not like "oh, a 100 gold item counters shroud". It's "oh, even if the other team is retarded and doesn't counter your shroud, another item would STILL be better".
Geometers is amazing and is definitely important on flint. Illusions gain passives from your hero, geometers gives you all the important things you need: more dps, movement speed to kite, survivability, disjoint/dispel, more ministuns. If people feel geometers is not enough, dps, it is either because a) you're bad and have bad positioning and therefore your illusions die to AoE or b) they're retarded because geometers gives like 66% damage increase because of illusions. You know how annoying late game flint is with ministuns every half second? Now imagine 3 flints. So many games where I have geometers + illusion bottled and it's 5 flints procing ministuns on one person where they are literally permastunned and drop in a second or so. If you are doing well, geometers is the way to go. It synergizes especially well with flint.
Alch bones are... not that good. Flint has Q for farming. Q gives you like 350 gpm clearing lanes and the jungles in between in a matter of seconds. Alch bones do work and I've actually done a lot of experimenting with alch bones on flint. It's ... decent. But not good. So why bother? With ring of the teacher, boots, tp, power supply and possibly bottle, you have no room for filler items like that. Flint isn't a disappear into jungle and farm 50 minutes carry. He chips in to gank and push all the time and does not benefit from alch bones as much as heroes like wild soul does.
150 creep kills is not amazing at 35 minutes. I mean it's not terrible. It's actually significantly better than most flints I see, then again. The problem is that they can't tell you what your gpm is. And in your bracket, your team doesn't care what gpm is. The most demoralizing flint is a well positioned one. Just be subtle. Wait for things to start and then sneak into the back row and start pounding away at that one support that your team isn't paying attention to. Pick up kills, stay far far away from everyone and just keep picking up kills. Suddenly out of nowhere, that flint no one remembered just got a quad kill. That's demoralizing.
The problem with pubs is that after this quad kill, they buy retarded items like shieldbreaker and assassin shroud (shield breaker is a good pick up only if there are really troublesome tanky heroes on their team that are using helm of the black legion). Now if you come out of this quad with a geometers and starting a frostwulf or shrunken or something, the team will want to CC right away.
TL;DR - Flint is almost entirely about positioning and a little about steamboot micro. Better positioning tends to win you more games than items or playstyle.
Thank for the detailed , i favourited this page .
So you personally recommend steamboots , since valkryrie is my go-to-win hero i guess my positioning is not the issue , rather Savaos was right , the passive thing , but i guess having ghost marchers solves the missing from my lane issue , and i can gank , it does really makes sense to not get alchemist bones when you mention he can't really jungle , so he's a lane and teamfight hero.
Can you recommend a skillplacement?
I use :
1 [for escaping in case someone gets close to me]
3
3
2
3
6
3
2 or 1
2 or 1
etc.
It does seem somewhat passive doesn't it ?
Also my starting items are :
Runes of blight : 90
Pot of heal : 100
Pot of mana : 50
Agi +3 : 150
Agi +3 : 150
Minor totem +1 : 53
Edit :
I really did underestimate geometer and mkb , your explanations really changed my perspective.
Also ring of the teacher is something that i never did , but i will.
Last edited by iKyi; 12-28-2011 at 01:29 AM.
Ring of teacher in that it gives damage to help last hit, armor to help get away with a sliver of hp, mana to spam your really amazing nukes.
Your starting items are obscenely bland and standard. I personally like items like ring of the teacher and power supply/bottle so I tend to skip out on agi +3s. Sometimes, depending on what the lineup is (I generally look at the hero lineups and decide what items would be better and set a goal, adjusting it throughout the game), I get one duck boot (agi +3) and 1 pretender crown (stats +2) and just turn it into soulscream for midgame stats. Sometimes, I just go runes, health pot, 2 mana pots, 2 totems, 1 mana battery. This is mostly against armadon/thunderbringer/spammy lanes.
I think the largest problem is your skill build. Q is really really good. Like obscenely good. It's one of the best nukes in the game. It does good damage, it does damage to towers, it gives you vision, it slows them, it's a huge AoE. I ALWAYS max it first. Hollowpoint shells scales really well with attack speed but isn't amazing early on. Or at least it's unreliable. Once I get to lane and make sure there isn't going to be any early action, I start off with one level into it at level 1 to assist with harass, last hitting (it's not good to rely on it to last hit just like how crits do not help you farm but sometimes, if there's no other use for the autoattack, it's nice to try and get the hollowpoint to outlast hit someone with hatchet). Then I get 2 levels into Q. And then I get one level into range. Essentially my skill build is almost always -
W (Q if expecting action before level 2)
Q (W or E if you leveled Q at level 1)
Q
E (having 1 point in everything is really nice for flint)
Q
R
Q
E
E
E (maxing range is important. W does not scale well until late game. E allows you to sit in the back and pound away)
R
W
W
W
stats
R
And so on.
I really can't understand why people would skip Q. It does more damage than your W will ever do. It prevents people from juking you (flare into trees as they try and run and get that last autoattack in). It prevents people from running from you. It lets you get away with a HUGE aoe slow. It allows you to farm extremely well (hit the ranged creep once and then Q and proceed to last hit the melees). It lets you push extremely well (it kills the tower before anyone can deny it). It is a huge AoE nuke (important to stay relevant during early game).
Flint is amazing as a ranged carry also because maxing Q gives him a nuke combo, like Fayde or Pyro. Q + autoattack until out of range + R = A lot of damage. Overall, Q is almost always the superior choice to max. It gives you farm, it helps you stay alive better than the other skills, it does more damage than the other skills.
And yes, Geometers is easy to underestimate. It is an extremely powerful item but it doesn't just give you good stats or a powerful attack. It's uses are powerful and subtle.
I use both ghost marchers and steams depending on what I feel like. If I'm doing a lot more ganking, I get ghost marchers and try to get a Shrunken or icebrand or blessed orb to make up for the lost health. If it's a standard game where I don't need to move around all the time, I get steamboots because they are the best investment as a carry late game (steamboots are really good on flint for the extra mana too).
I don't usually invest in Q because of the mana issue , i mean my former method required mana pots like all the time to ensure more then 1 ulti per teamfight or at least a ulti when i most need it .
I kind of blindly invested in E but now that i think about it 1-2 levels is enough for early game , did have alot of easy games with maxed out E in which the other guy had no chance , but i was ex-1800 [ exactly 1800 when the reset happened] and it didn't really work anymore ,actually i stopped picking flint because my style didn't really keep up with the increasingly aggressive bracket .
Your hypothesis regarding mana battery makes sense , but i worry about the combination of alot of range for being there + the range of the mana battery around mid game .
Also , does negative bulwark make sense? How big IS the range on that?, is it smaller than a flint with maxed E ?
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