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Didn't people say Arachna wasn't good anymore cause she cant nuke down creep waves? Its not like a +100 damage and splash on attack a fifth of the time suddenly decimates all the creeps instantly like Midas or Ra. Calling a mini immobilize a disable is a gross overstatement of use (it doesn't even fully immobilize . . .) While his pub % rate may not matter, lets talk about his competitive win rate: undefined - 0/0, aka Never Picked Up. Fact is, early on he does no damage, crit is effectively +20% damage, and his ult boosts damage a small amount for a small amount of damage gain (like 250).
A hero like puppet can easily be buffed into balanced stardom simply by modifying his stats/growth.
Also, Anakha, if you read closely he wasn't lauding the competitive priv forums. He was condemning it, as it is a cesspool.
he already has solid base stats and 7 gain/level...
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He has the tools to be useful all game, there's no need for him to be stronger than heroes that peak late game or excel early/mid.
Generalist heroes are bad for the game, period. Good for solo que/pubs, but in a greater sense they aren't healthy for the game.
just my .02
Originally Posted by Nubcaeks
his poor win rate is an indication of his pub status, but honestly I doubt it would be much better if data was taken from competitive games, in the rare scenario where he is even picked.
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So, what makes him so inferior to other picks that we never see him in comp play anymore? One would think that an additional 6 seconds of lockdown against the massive influx of blink heroes and all magebane picks would make him an attractive pickup.
The current competitive scene is looking more favorably upon tanky carries. Puppet is strong but he has limited influence early/mid game (functions as a high dmg support), where as these tanky carries become extremely powerful by the 15-20 minute mark if they get farm. This allows them to nearly solo teams in some cirmunstances. These tanky picks are much safer, and because puppet has no real escape they become a problem for puppet.
chronos is a hard carry with better carry potential and longer cc with 3 disables. (if u call puppet strings a disable then chronos time leap is a a disable to.
so ill just assume ur trolling like u always do on these forums.
puppet master is weak right now, he has been used in scrims and high level inhouses and he just cant carry no where near like he use to.
the problem is before the base damage nerf he was rarely picked and if he was it was normally a counter to magebane mostly by col. Then further nerfing him when he was a situational pick made him never picked status.
i think his design is all wrong and should change whiplash to a unique style nuke and use the hero as a niche hero that is a support/nuker/disabler used to counter very mobile heroes such as magebane, hag, chronos etc, hero is too hard to balance with that much cc burst dmg and carry potential as well as being ranged int.
Last edited by NitroS; 12-20-2011 at 07:42 PM.
MS/Armor can also be buffed.
My comment has strings attached - that's if you want to buff the hero. noopie.
"A hero like puppet can easily be buffed into balanced stardom simply by modifying his stats/growth."
Relative to current heroes? Too weak.
Last edited by china; 12-20-2011 at 09:06 PM.
Disables are only as good as the damage that can be put out during or shortly after its duration.
He lost a lot of his lane presence with the damage nerf and really can only function effectively in a trilane right now. And frankly, trilanes have seen better days.
Also, what China said.
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Your posts... sigh.
What about if I say I <3 Assless Chaps?
Yeah, the one that keeps shitting on everything and is always banned first :>
OT: I think puppet is fine, he was just plain overpowered before he got hit with the nerf stick.
Even in that OP state, most people just plain sucked and never picked up any items that improve his ability to stay in fights.
That's funny, I didn't notice him shitting on everything during DHW finals until he wasn't properly addressed. Why is that?!?!?!
He's a statistical outlier atm, with his own set of counters that are not considered viable against a strat revolving around tanky carries with hotbl and healers. So it's just easier to ban him. I would too.
Puppet, on the other hand, functions as he should as a hero. Being outclassed by heroes in their more optimal setting (puppet excels in trilanes with 2 disables on the carry, as well as your usual trilane supports) does not mean he requires buffs - just additional requirements to set him in his element.
Last edited by Anakha; 12-21-2011 at 11:13 AM.
Let me spell it out plain for you
Angry people complain about the things I do
I'm not changing direction, I'm stepping my game up
Maintaining my name, the same way I came up.
Truth is, I thought it mattered
I thought that music mattered.
But does it? Bollocks!
Not compared to how people matter.
I'm a puppetfan but sadly, he isn't picked to carry anymore and I mainly use him as a supporthero. With the metagame as it is, he doesn't live long enough to make a difference.
I think H4nn1 said it best during a HoNcast when one of the teams started getting items on their puppetcarry. "Its only a puppetmaster". They later also lost the game.
/thread
He was overnerfed of what was essentially fine. Just have to give him a little nudge now.
Not that it was a minor buff, but remember how popular he became when his Agi gain went from 1.5 to 2.0. Was some pretty fun stuff.
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I really like the spot that puppet has hit after the last nerf. Now he doesn't play out purely as a carry that should go farm for 20minutes to come out and splash half the enemy team for 30% of their HP.
Me and some friends have had great success running him as a pure disabler/support ganker, not leveling his crit until very late and instead going for the extra disables to help his lane get kills.
Paired up with a,
, or
we can shut down almost any lane with puppet master harassing and letting our other hero farm and then grabbing a kill whenever possible, allowing both
People still see puppet as a carry(which he by all means can still be used as) but the removal of his passive damage from whiplash has turned this skill into something that really isn't that strong early and doesn't make farming insanely easy.
He is perfect as he is right now
I will miss you HfH, thanks all the guys who helped us help you!
Nergal, the antihealer - please give me some feedback so that i can make him even better ^^
Does the existence of Genjuro push him into being more viable?
Yes, spending an additional 3000 gold for extra agility is valid on him.
na but srs, double shroud with slow added would be good on him, but I really doubt the extra gold is worth it. Maybe if you already have filled your inventory and have used both your buybacks.
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