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Yes!, can't do any harm right?
No!, leave it how it is.
NC/LC/PC - No Concede/Late Concede/Punished Concede Modes.
I think addressing the current issues around conceding will be a great next move for the dev's, it is already a successful feature as pairing up with the leave recording system it has almost completely abolished leaves in my experience, which was DotA's biggest problem.
People say you shouldn't fix something that isn't broken, so don't fix it, just allow us to customise it.
Currently the community seems split in the middle between people for and against conceding.
The arguement FOR is based around not wanting to waste time playing games that are rediculously hopeless, due to team imbalance, or simply an undesirable teammate.
The arguement AGAINST is based on the system being slightly abused, there are way too many games being conceded at 15 mins by players who are not prepared to work to win their game.
Late comebacks are epic and they DO happen, a lot of games conceded are not yet fully decided. I propose modes be implemented to allow conceding to be controlled on a match to match basis.
Modes.
No Concede - Removes concede from the match completely.
Late Concede - Pushes the time threshhold on conceding to around 30 Minutes.
Punished Concede - Double PSR loss/gain if a game is conceded
(Cool idea taken from Rekuja's post
This way I think both sides will get what they want, I'm not saying all these modes be implemented, and I'm sure someone out there can think of some better ones, but it's a start.
Thanks for reading.
Last edited by Kaato; 10-27-2009 at 07:53 AM.
If you remove the Punished concede and replace it with No concede I am happy. Makes much more sense.
Well vote "yes" then, or nothing will be changed.
Conceding is probably the best thing that's ever happened to HoN; but it's a shame 1 out of every 3 games has some griefer who won't concede because they're 0-1-0 with a jungler and the rest of their team has died miserably, "dude just stop dying omg." Late-game comebacks DO happen, but only when you're with competent teammates; and honestly if you're about to concede it's probably because you have no hope in your team and simply don't want to lose further KDR.
Your argument is decent, sure, a lot of forsaken games can be revived if players exert effort, stick together, and win -- but frankly unless you're with friends, or a specific team, that's never going to happen. If you can somehow magically replace horrible players with decent ones -- concede rates would drop significantly; otherwise games will continue to be forfeited due to 0-10 scouts or opposing teams being thrice as good despite the win % being 50-50 (lol psr).
Your point is valid to an extent, but I personally witnessed a post-concede vote cry comeback yesterday, in a 5v5 pub, no locks.Originally Posted by Mittsies
We owned early and mid game, and about 3 of them were concede crying, but the votes weren't passing, and they went on to win - even with the hatred towards the players who were not passing the concede, they still got it together and won.
At the end of the day, adding the OPTION to remove concede, or penalise it, is not going to negatively affect the game, because if people don't want to play it, they won't, much like nobody playing -AR anymore, and just whoring EM games.
Why did you have to bring em vs non em into a discussion about conceding.
Anyhoo - in response to Mittsies assertion that coming back is "never going to happen" - sometimes all it takes is one experienced person and 4 that are willing to listen and work together. Sure, sometimes people want to be pigheaded - assuming that everyone else is to blame for the situation they're in, but once and a while, people actually do pull together, work together, and mount an unexpected comeback. Been there, done that.
Yea, and I'm one of those people who you're calling a "griefer". There are very few circumstances in which I will concede. It takes the other team having absolutely no respect (refusal to push, flaming etc) after gaining very significant advantages in levels and items before I begin to consider it.
The best way to come back from being down early (first 20 minutes) is to put your head down and farm - yes, I know this can be hard for some. If the other team is refusing to push, and only wants the kills - using this weak play against them usually starts to bring things back to an even playing field. Observer wards and map awareness > 5 players looking for kills. The longer they spend running around the map instead of pushing to win, the more time you have to claw your way back into the game.
Sometimes all it takes is getting magic immunity and/or void talisman on a few heroes - to drastically change the dynamic of the team fight. Those items at 3200 and 1500 aren't exactly impossible to farm up.
In my experience, the most satisfying win comes after being flamed for not giving up.
Don't forget, you can always leave the game....but wait, we wouldn't want to be labelled a quitter now would we?
Oh, and track concede stats please: http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/sh...ad.php?t=36917
@ Kaato: Then just don't concede? Why add a specific mode to remove it? That's like not bringing food to a picnic because there's a CHANCE Wildsoul's bear might come and take it. Your argument for wanting to remove it is severely flawed considering if 3 out of 5 people are conceding, they obviously don't want to play; so why would you just ignorantly remove their ability to vote leaving them trapped in a god-forsaken game where your team is like 0-40.
I'll agree that 1 out of every 30 games are ill-conceded -- but if you remove concede, what if it's the 29 other scenarios and you want to concede?
Last edited by Mittsies; 10-27-2009 at 10:01 AM.
Exactly.
Also, don't be sad, I was merely creating a similarity between people having the OPTION to play EM/Non EM - as they will if a concede game mode is implemented.
How is having the OPTION to remove it a flawed arguement? it's a win-win scenario, please read my post.
1 out of 30 games ill-conceded? try 50% of them, the 15 minute concede cry which you appear to love so much directly supersedes the DotA leaving problem in the majority of cases.
Most people opposing this blindly without reading the implications of the idea are the kind of people who ragequit after being bloodlusted in DotA - just take a minute, read the post, we're asking for a GAME MODE, you DON'T HAVE TO PLAY IT IF YOU DON'T WANT TO.
Half the community will still be playing without "No Concede", so don't worry, there will be plenty of games for you to join and quit 15 minutes after if this idea makes it through.
My name is Senator John McCain and I support this message.
im sorry but you clearly havn't understood or read this post... it wont be in EVRYGAME just a mode u can put it on for people who dont like 15min conceeding and as for 1 or of evry 30 you couldnt be more wrong...
bump
Clearly you aren't comprehending; I see no reason to exclude concede from any games. It's often VERY clear that you should concede -- and if you think you can press on, simply decline the concede and rally your team, start telling them what to do. Removing concede is just torture. Who wants to play a game where you're 20-40 in team kills, they've pushed in all the lanes, and instead of finishing you they spend 20 minutes farming KDR off of you as soon as you try to leave base? I sure as hell don't.
I read your post just fine. Let's take this scenario: You remove concede. The teams are totally freakin' stacked and you're getting the **** owned of you. Fun. You have no chance of winning since your team has War Beast/Devourer/Scout and they have a god-tier team. You tried to tell your team to grab something good in the -RD pool and they just ignore you -- so on top of it all you HATE your teammates. Your teammates are yelling, whining, and crying that you lose and that everyone but them is horrible. Instead of the enemy team winning, they're now farming KDR off of you. On one hand, I enjoy (Read: don't mind) this when it's not happening to me -- free KDR/PSR whoo. However if I had to be stuck in a noobshit game like that I'd probably be sick of HoN for the rest of the day after a single game. Guess what?
This happens all the time.
What's makes it worse is that griefers often don't concede; but removing concede all together simply takes that tiny bit of hope you may have had for getting out of that god-forsaken game.
Last edited by Mittsies; 10-28-2009 at 11:17 AM.
I feel sorry for you, you have obviously had a very traumatising experience when playing this game.
But please, put your painful memories aside and think logically for the good of the game, a LOT of games are conceded without need, I was playing just 30 mins ago, and the score was 21-21, we pushed as a team, killed them, and destroyed their base tower, we didn't even raxx.
Someone voted concede, luckily not all passed it, but this has happened before, people get wiped out once and think the game is over when really it has only just begun.
Everything you have said has outlined the WORST case scenario, *Bad hero combination, whole team is retarded, nobody has played before, you are being farmed for K-D in the fountain* - And to top it off "This happens all the time."
I'm sorry, but it DOES NOT happen all the time, you are talking out of your arse mate, I have around 500 games under my belt and K-D farming has not been a major problem for me, it's happened once or twice, so what? it lasts for about 5 minutes, and the majority of the time there are people on the other team raxxing as they don't care about K-D.
You talk like you have to sit at your computer being tortured for hours, at most it will last for 15 minutes, and that is approximate, and guess what, IT NEVER HAPPENS.
Why don't you stop being a *****y little girl and stop being selfish, for the last time this mode is OPTIONAL, you will never ever be forced to play it - but it will be in the best interests of at least half of the community (more looking at the current votes).
So think about that last paragraph for a moment, stop whining about the past, and don't dismiss a decent idea over your pathetic nerd rage.
Last edited by Kaato; 10-28-2009 at 01:05 PM.
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