[2.3.4] Soul Reaper

[Shadeward]

I believe he is balanced, just his skill set is quite contradictory and confusing.

He can play support/baby sitter with his 'heal' and aura of pain but the heal does not heal for that much. It's on a short CD and does a lot of damage and is 'expensive' if you're using it just to heal 135 health. It's best used to last hit creeps, harass and heal your laning partner for effective use. However a baby sitter is not meant to take last hits off his laning partner.
The aura of pain doesn't actually do that much harassment. All it does it sting the enemy when you auto attack them.

He has a passive that restores mana when he kills an enemy. It's a nice bonus when you deny to fuel Judgements. However it's wasted if you're not going to last hit creeps.

He can use his ultimate to deal a large amount of damage to a hero, but it is often used to KILL out right. It's not like witch slayer's or pyro's ultimate where it can be used to nuke a target down to low health; Soulreaper's ultimate is more effective the more damaged the target is. As this often leads to kills, why would you want your 'support' getting kills instead of the carry?

As a result I think his skills should be tweak to enforce his semi-carry role. He can deal a large amount of damage over time by being allowed to farm with his aura and short CD AOE Nuke. However the 'babysitter' nature of the hero makes Soulreaper suffer from being a hybrid hero. He is often forced into the support role whilst not actually being the best equipped for it.
Based by his abilities he is 4/4 semi carry and 2.75/4 support.

The heal aspect of judgement is to blame. The typical HoN player sees a hero with the ability to heal and assumes they're instantly a support. Ironically they're the same players who play Midas as a semi-carry.

His skill set is obviously geared towards farming and carrying.

[LegoPirate]

atleast the general community now realizes hes a carry and not a support >.>

SR is actually really undervalued, he just needs a solo lane and he can do some stronk work.

the only real issue that the hero has that i feel needs to be fixed is the stupidhuge mana cost on judgement. 185 mana means he can cast it twice early game T_T.

maybe give him diffusion aura back? the old aura that reduced enemy's damage by 28% or whatnot. it seems like alot of his issues stem from the fact that his aura is probably worse then getting stats.

[CrimsonAdder]

People who claim SR is a support hero should get a freakin' infraction and possibly a permanent mute from the balance forums.

[Cyanotic]

I couldn't agree more. While in a lot of cases you could argue that the new heroes are just better in general, I actually think SR is underpowered even compared to most classic heroes.

Movement speed increase might be a reasonable balance tweak, but I think that just a slight reduction in mana cost on Judgement, as well as possibly a slight increase on the range of his passive, and maybe a slightly higher int gain. Like previously said by other posters, I think that all he really needs is just very small tweaking in numbers across the board to keep him well rounded, but effective.

Just for fun, another, more creative way to balance Judgement would be to perhaps add a slow to it. This would make him useful for ganking, and help justify the ridiculous mana cost.

[skeloperch]

Cthuluphant
Emerald Warden
Geomancer

Oh no you di'nt. Geomancer and Cthulhuphant are positive influences on this game, as they are, essentially, more balanced versions of Magmus (Melee heroes who have mobility line stuns and decent AoE). If Magmus were removed, we would see as much positive influence as if Midas were removed. Also, Warden adds a dynamic for the noobs to enjoy, so I consider him a beneficial addition. He isn't too effective at what he does, but he gives noobs something other that Skawt, NiceHound, and Legio to choose.

You guys gotta learn that there is an absolute balance point. There needs to be a standard of balance if we can define anything UP/OP, and we all, obviously, have different standards. TriplJ has a high standard, whereas Anakha has a low standard, and Ekamo has a wtf standard. So, my question is, where should the standard be set? What do we consider the epitome of balance in HoN (if someone says Valkyrie, I will shoot you)?

[[DDDz]Devourawr]

The main problem is that all these new S2 heroes like Ra and Zephyr are just completely out of the league of classics like Soul Reaper.
Why would you ever pick a hero with a crappy nuke with a low cd, a poor aura, and an ulti that only really works as a killing blow skill, when you could pick Ra, who has a stun, a slow, the best burst damage in the game, the best farming ability in the game, an escape mechanism, amazing scaling potential, a free revive that automatically triggers your nuke without cd, a mock of brilliance, good hp regen, great attack speed, and who only needs to get hp and hp regen to be able to do everything he needs to because he's not limited by mana?

[skeloperch]

The main problem is that all these new S2 heroes like Ra and Zephyr are just completely out of the league of classics like Soul Reaper.
Why would you ever pick a hero with a crappy nuke with a low cd, a poor aura, and an ulti that only really works as a killing blow skill, when you could pick Ra, who has a stun, a slow, the best burst damage in the game, the best farming ability in the game, an escape mechanism, amazing scaling potential, a free revive that automatically triggers your nuke without cd, a mock of brilliance, good hp regen, great attack speed, and who only needs to get hp and hp regen to be able to do everything he needs to because he's not limited by mana?

1. His nuke potential is average-poor until he gets items.
2. He is the squishiest strength hero, and on the squishier side of the hero pool.
3. Health regen is easily counterable.
4. He kills himself to hurt you.
5. BARBED ARMOR LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
6. His 'free mock' requires him to get hurt.
7. He is the only hero who scales backwards.
8. He does nothing once someone picks up Vestments/headress/SH

More than enough reasons to pick SR over him if SR got a little bit of tweaks.

[korDen]

Since SR is a support hero, his heal should heal more than it damages, possible as much. And TBH his aura should stop regen too it's just useless against anything below 4k HP.

And since he only has 1 supportive spell and 3 offensive ones why can't we remake inhuman to something that grants mana to all allies within 8000 units? Would fit the hero role much more. ANd his ult is just a killstealer rly, make it stun people in an area like Hammerstorm so he can be useful for initiation.

I see why so many people add you to ignore list...

[[IaF]Skyve]

Except that Ra will always do more damage than SR, farm slower (and being more item dependant to farm), is easier harassable in the laning phase and blablub

[GregerMoek]

I see why so many people add you to ignore list...

So many? AMAGAD I'M BEING IGNORED BY SHEER IDIOTS. Oh God I'm so happy you prove yourself an idiot over and over again.

I was merely coming with ridiculous buffs (should be obvious noone can be serious with the buffs I "suggested") because most people think that this hero is bad, the fact is that he is not. He is not even close to bad. In the right draft and with the right strategy this hero is more than fine, there was a time where he was BROKEN with the current concept and needed nerfs. People fail to remember such things, because they are trashcans ready to be thrown in the dumpster.

[CheakyKuntM8]

SR was too inadvertently nerf by all the item changes and new heroes/buffs. Even still, a slight buff wouldn't hurt. A little armor/MS increase and/or mana decrease on his heal/nukes would go a long way to making him somewhat balanced.

[GregerMoek]

Aye, however, people are saying that he is even a fail concept, something I wanted to prove by a small historical lesson. Moreover, people might say "amg he is so easy, just stun and burst down gg", well that's the counter to everything.

I wouldn't mind slight, very slight number tweaks to perhaps stat gain or the aura. Some nerf reverts more or less if needed because the astro change hurt SR specifically, which could make up for this loss.

Other than that I think he is fine, in no need of mechanic tweaks besides perhaps a more desirable effect on SOTM.

[[LsE]Benny0]

SR is the kind of hero that will tank three hero's ultimates before he goes down. And at that point, if they have long CDs, is that really a bad thing?

I love this hero, he's one of my favorites, and with aura back to 1000 range, I would play him nonstop.

[Graindivider]

Aura should give assists maybe 1k range on all levels
More base armor or higher str gain(or start str)

This should help some, but should really go with minor tweaks instead of some mad overhaul can always add some more to him or bring some of the other heroes with almost same roles down a bit.

[commy]

One of the best dota games I've seen had necro carrying in them. It got to the stage where he picked up a portal key (sold his astrolabe he was so tanked up) so he could jump right in the centre of the fight.

When you've got a hero with no stuns initiating, you know that the other team is in trouble.

EDIT: Re Poll:

Are we voting relative to what we think SR should be, or relative to the rest of the hero pool? I certainly think he shouldn't be buffed, so I voted borderline, but I also think he's underpowered relative to other heroes because of all the tanky, fast farming heroes that exist at the moment.

[moarrPSR]

I'm against buffs to SR for now because you, just like everyone else, grossly underestimate how good he is.

Thank god someone actually realises his potential.

Completely agree with this.

Ever seen a SR, Polly, Balph, Ophelia and Keeper Early push strat..?

On topic, he is a Pushing support hero that transitions into a late game tank.

Im being dead serious when i say, if you haven't pushed and taken all outer towers by 25 mins, you're playing SR wrong.

[Shadeward]

Thank god someone actually realises his potential.

Completely agree with this.

Ever seen a SR, Polly, Balph, Ophelia and Keeper Early push strat..?

On topic, he is a Pushing support hero that transitions into a late game tank.

Im being dead serious when i say, if you haven't pushed and taken all outer towers by 25 mins, you're playing SR wrong.

My eyes! They burn!

[commy]

Im being dead serious when i say, if you haven't pushed and taken all outer towers by 25 mins, you're playing SR wrong.

Not true. SR works really well in a hard push strat, but he doesn't NEED to be played in a hard push strat to be effective.

[moarrPSR]

Not true. SR works really well in a hard push strat, but he doesn't NEED to be played in a hard push strat to be effective.

I never said he wouldn't be effective otherwise, I just stated the best possible strat for him. But yes, you're correct, agreed

[[SGP]ChESkI]

When the main selling point of a hero (quickest mana-efficient aoe farming) is made redundant by every single worthy addition to the game, then the hero is always going to seem subpar to everyone else.

It doesn't "seem" subpar, it now IS subpar.



For the OP the change I always wanted to see, it's minuscule in scale I've pushed for it since pre HoN days, is he should receive double mana return on Hero kills. And I LOVED this hero in DotA, aside from the changes to HoN passively nerfing SR like no other, this game is so nuke and damage intensive compared to DotA, team fights are so fast ur getting a tiny 135 heal (maybe 2, for 270) in a team fight, ur only kill is ur nuke unless u use for disable purposes (which is amazing nuking a hero at ~55% hp leaving him with about 10% giving a carry the kill (my numbers aren't researched ez on the trolls). Pressence is wasted being hoN team fights last literally 5~10 seconds where as in DotA the only 10 second team fights involved a blink ult from temest, or behemoth. Most fights were easily 15 to sometimes 25 seconds. (those numbers speak for themselves on pressence being a DoT.)

It wasn't an everyday event, but it wasn't abnormal to see a carry SR solo mid with radiance/mock of brilliance in DotA. Haven't seen, don't think I'll ever see it in HoN.

What exactly is sr's role in the lane? With lowest tier survivability(BAD starting armor, BAD starting hp, <300 starting ms), subpar range, mediocre damage, and a high mana cost heal? Your nuke's range requires you to put urself in harm's way, any hero can out damage ur heal, support capabillities are garbage and ur killing capabilities pre lvl 6 are shoulder shrugging at best. He pushes a lane like a champ but so do many other heroes that aren't subject to such flaws. It's impossible to balance 80 individual heroes, it's NOT IMPOSSIBLE to make 75% of them playable. If you ask me that's what sr is, UNPLAYABLE, two teams of equal skill with one using sr, my money is against every time.

So if ANYTHING at all:

Double mana return on hero kills.
Faster soul travel speed for the nuke.
You pick, give this guy some lane control, he has to push the lane to be useful in a lane..... epitome of counter productive?