Since the launch of RAP 2.0 we have been analyzing the statistics and weighing our options on what to do next. It's has been a little over a week and we are already noticing some trends that are appearing quite frequently.
During this past week we are still receiving a majority of innocent tickets, in fact, 46% of all judged cases are innocent and 20% of the cases were borderline, requiring only a warning to the player, not an actual suspension. With this being said, we feel a need for harsher punishments to take effect for players who send invalid reports. We will be requiring an additional 10 silver coins for RAP deposits, bringing the total to 25 silver coins. This will have no effect on you if your report is valid, as you will receive your deposit back after the offender is found guilty.
In addition to increasing the amount of coins we have added Cooldown Timer () on submitting reports after the match has taken place. Essentially what this cooldown timer means is that you will have to wait 5 minutes after a match to report a player, in order for you to reflect on the situation and ensure that the offender was, in fact, breaking the Rules of Conduct. After 5 minutes have passed, you will be able to report player as per usual.
Another addition we felt the interface needed is a clarification screen. This is a pop-up before you reach the final screen that tells you what some examples of non-reportable actions are and goes into more detail about what the offense consists of. Here is what it looks like in-game:
We hope that everyone will understand the changes and we will continue to monitor and update everyone with any new additions or changes we make to the system.
If you have any questions or concerns please feel free to discuss them in the RAP Feedback Forum.
Update: We would like to thank everyone on their initial feedback of the cooldown timer. Based upon the comments and a reassessment, we will be lowering the cooldown to 5 minutes, from the original 15.
Last edited by Feanux; 11-30-2011 at 10:29 AM.
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The cooldown timer will just get you less valid reports. People will shrug it off, as they do in every game they play. Then they won't report and the offender does the same again the next game. I honestly don't understand the "Cooldown Timer". Makes no sense.
Cooldown Timer is supposed to make you think about whether the report is actually justified. This you can only judge after the rage has passed.
BUT as KrollTing said, I rather suppose people will just not report at all if they have to wait 15 min because of 2 reasons:
-> just starting a new game and forgetting to report after that game
-> leaving to do something else than playing hon and forgetting to report when returning
"We have added a 15 minutes cooldown to calm your **** down and your rage, allowing "objective" reports."
I'm not sure if this is a good point.
You have a match and someone clearly griefs so at the end of the match you go to report BUT there is this timer. What are you going todo ?
wait 15min to report? no you will either shutdown because it was your last game for a bit (bed,going out etc...) or start another.
High chance you would will forget to report the griefer and thus they get to grief again and thus the quality of games played with continue to get worse.
I for one am not going to bother with RAP again
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In complete honesty, I think you guys should review your GMs.
After RAP2.0, I don't think anyone sends out reports as a "joke".
My friends and I were in a Matchmaking game against another team of 5.
They have one AFK that they don't boot...whatever,right?
We're 1300-1500 trash. And these guys absolutely DEMOLISH us. 4v5, getting destroyed in all lanes, and these guys are GOOD.
We get tired of being steamrolled, and start a concede vote. Our votes start trickling in, and BOOM-
The other team starts a concede vote and it passes instantly.
They threw the game.
Because they're manipulating their MMR to stomp.
We investigated a little, it turns out they're on a MAJOR losing streak, with all 4-5 players constantly going 15/1/10.
We reported this, GLADLY paying the 15 silver, knowing that these guys are a scourge on the community.
Turns out they're "innocent"....I'm sorry...what? Any GM that would have spent the 20 seconds it takes to look at their past games would have noticed this wasn't the case.
And now, boosting the price up to 25...I honestly don't know if I'll ever report anything again.
I'd appreciate if a GM contacted me, we need to talk.
100% of my RAP submissions happen immediately after the game ends. Naib said it best once a game is finished there are two things that I do.
1. Immediately queue again.
2. Exit Hon.
If you actually wanted the false-positives to decrease you would add a more in-depth way of describing what is and is not an infraction. Solution: before you can use the RAP system you have to watch a youtube video, using HON TV that goes through the 5 most common false-positives.
If people are false reporting it is because they don't know what is appropriate to report. That is on you guys NOT us.
Awesome, now i MIGHT actully report people
Do you really want me dead, Or alive to live a lie?
I've lost every hope in RAP. Reporting someone for afk'ing 10 minutes of a 27 minute game, me getting an infraction after 4 days -> opening a thread in the RAP feedback forum, sending the match ID to a senior GM and thread getting deleted, and not hearing anything ever again concerning that case... yay.
Look for my highlighted text (important information) andGrey text (interesting but not required information).
Suggestion for removal of streams in MotD: CLICK HERE! (scout stole the cookies!)Originally Posted by Skyve
Sorry, but the waiting time is a bad call. why use it?
if someone is blinded by the rage, its their fault, the worst that happens is that they lose the coins cause of their own fault.
15 minutes? after 15 minutes im already in another game, thus makeing it pretty useless.
Buff Breaky: http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?t=363037
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I agree with the sentiment about the cool down timer. No need for that.. for example, no matter how bad I'm griefed, etc. if I get kicked (thus out of the game x time before I can report) I've never went back and reported ..and 1 time it was bad and I swore I would. I even d/led the replay to get the times of when stuff happened... but I just had lost interest by that point. They had already wasted my time, etc. they weren't getting anymore.
As far as the coins, and to solve your problem... make it expensive. TBH, I don't think 25 is that much. Maybe I'm in the minority, IDK. I've got like 5k just sitting there.
Take down the cd timer or make it like 3 mins... I might actually wait to not play another game or go do w/e I'm doing in my life next.. 15 mins, no way. If you get your silver back for a valid report it shouldn't be a big deal. So make it cost like 200 silver. If it's one of those borderlines ones where you only give a warning, give them 50 or 75% back.
EDIT if it will cost this much, it might be nice to get some examples of a sketchy but invalid report, a few borderline reports, and actual valid reports. I feel like at some point I've probably reported ppl that received no punishment... and I've probably used the function less than a dozen times in like 1k+ games. So it's not like I abuse the system and flood you guys.
Last edited by SB7; 11-30-2011 at 09:38 AM.
I thought RAP 2.0 sounded great. Finally some serious attempt to clean up the worst.
But now this cooldown timer? Wow what a bad idea. Ofcourse you report directly after the game ends. You report and move on to the next match. I sure wont be playing a new match and after that one go "oh thats right, someone griefed in the game before, better fill up that report".
The ONLY purpose this serves is for you to get less reports. It serves YOU not the community. Horrible idea.
While I dont mind the 25 coins for actual invalid reports, I feel if it is a borderline case then not refunding the coins is a bit weird. The goal of the coins as I understand it is to lower the amount of stupid reports that are obviously not bannable. But if you honestly believe someone committed a bannable offense and the reasonable person would agree with you that it is a reasonable offense to report then you should not be penalised if it is then decided that it is not severe enough to be banned for. What the 25 coins will then do is make allot of people feel they dont want to take the chance of losing 25 coins on a "might be bannable" report and in the end less offenders get punished.
If I misunderstood the working of the coins then disregard my post, but as I understand it the only way you get the coins back is if the reported player gets banned, not even if you made a perfectly reasonable report without just wasting GM's time
Cooldown timer is teribad decision for obvious reasons. Read posts above.
Problem for invalid reports is that you lose only 25 silver coins. I couldn't care less for 25 coins lol, I can spam invalid reports all day long, whatever.
You should lose 250-500 coins for invalid report (and if you dont have 250+ coins, then you lose all of them to zero) OR another punishment for invalid reports at all.
I just don't understand these changes.
I know you're obviously NOT being lazy... but that's what this comes off as to me. It appears to the outsider that you're just generally discouraging players from reporting people... and that I don't get.
I get the intention, but I think you need to go about it a different way. All you're going to do is reduce the amount of reports accross the board, not the number of "invalid reports". Do you get what I'm saying? Basically, the percentage of valid reports will not change (as it didn't change much with RAP 2.0 implementation), but the number of submitted reports is just going to go down. So instead of (arbitrary) 10,000 reports per month at 46% viability, you're going to get 2,000 reports at 46% viability.
You mentioned when RAP 2.0 went live that you didn't want to just "throw bodies" at the RAP system... but in my opinion, that's the only method to get people punished for their griefing.
Don't GM's work for free anyway? I fail to see the problem....
Yeap, bad idea with the cooldown timer.
There won't be as much reports as they were, because of all the reasons said above.
Maybe you should make a tutorial/test that GIVES you 50 silver coins that u can read easy and fast and know then if what u say is bannable.
Give an example at each rule breaking, then a test with a different situation.
Based on a yes/no answer. Make them 5-10 question, if you don't answer 2. Don't get the coin and make again the test.
Put some 2-3-4-5 test. That way people will be inform, take a easy test and after that they will report more corectly.
NOT that hard to do this!!!
If the guy doesn't have 3min to take a test to report (one time) then they don't diserve to report!
If you want less report, just disable and let chaos rule the game.
Banning 3 months after 3 invalid reports is a really great ideea!
that 46% who made the reports, will get ban really soon and stop trolling!!!
Why sabotage the rest of us who did well?
Last edited by agentpuppy; 11-30-2011 at 09:51 AM.
Reports made : 3
Found guilty : 2
Given warning: 1
Nothing mentioned about the disabled no stat reporting..
I think the other changes are good. Nobody wants a million unguilfty reports. But not being able to report in no stats is just wrong.
Based upon the reassessment from the feedback, we will be lowering the cooldown timer to 5 minutes.
I do believe the cooldown timer is needed, as players need time to reflect on the situation and objectively view the actions of the offender.
One other thing I'd like to point out is that we did add another screen to the new interface, it is a pop-up before you reach the final screen that tells you what some examples of non-reportable actions are and it goes into more detail about what the offense consists of. Here is what it looks like in-game:
Last edited by Feanux; 11-30-2011 at 10:24 AM.
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