[2.2.9] Lord Salforis Speculation

[Infamous23]

My dad purchased LS on his noob 1200 account, he gave me the login info and I managed to stomp mid to the 1600's with this hero. I fell in love with the new hero but I still feel that he's underpowered. My suggestions for this hero :

1. Remove the healing from q to 60 up from 100.
2. Either buff the speed boost from w or remove the casting animation
3.Buff his attack speed as it's ridiculously lowl
4.Increase the range on his aura to 400.
5.Buff his base move speed.
6. Rework his ulty that it also gives a passive where he gains charges for every hero kill her gets <<< this would give him carry potential and make him a lot more funner to use . could rework the numbers to make him not OP.

All in all this hero needs some tweeking.

[SeriousCat]

Hm, I have an interesting idea to tweak this dude.

How about adding a -10% movement slow to the aura effect? Nothing gamebreaking, but can help a lot in chases (something like Jeraziah's aura, but weaker).

And maybe, increase a bit the int gain per level (+2.6, for example).

[Pogona]

I've been having great success with Nome's Wisdom + Insanitarius. Nome's comes first and gives great regen and actually works well by healing you for a decent sum constantly with all of your high mana spells, and Insanitarius gives Lord Salforis a great health buffer, empowers his Life Tap, which in turn heals for a greater amount and sustains Insanitarius. His passive also lessens the effect of Insanitarius even more.

He becomes a really well rounded skirmisher. He can also use his Ult heal, Life Tap, and Insanitarius for a large burst of health.

I think Insanitarius is core actually. Reasonably cheap, boosts his auto attack by quite a bit, and life tap negates most of the damage. I have had situations where I was very low on health, switched on Insan, hit W, wacked the guy chasing me, and instantly had 700-800 more health. Insan was always good for a turn-around before, but it really shines on him.

[[Brad]PlasmaPony]

I personally like this hero. He has an interesting niche as a strength melee caster, and I find him fun to play. All his skills are good, and there is justification for pretty much any skill order. However, he has some serious problems. His big one is his speed. As many have noted, he's too damn slow. He has a pretty decent ganking movepool, but is too damn slow. He NEEDS Marchers to chase, but even then doesn't feel adequate. His W helps a bit, but the cast time and low slow range kill it. If I'm chasing someone, by the time I cast it they are already out of range, and the cast time gives them time to get some distance, negating the speed buff. His ult also has way too long of a cooldown for what it does. Yes, it can hurt a single target badly and ensures a kill at a certain threshold of health, but in the end it's a glorified single target nuke, a poor man's Doom. Doom was so effective because it both damaged and silenced for a ridiculous amount of time, making someone totally worthless. A target hit by The Undying can still turn around and fight back. His big problem is that he requires some of everything to do his job. He needs mana/mana restoration for his spells to be spammed like they ideally should be, he needs survivability to not get mowed down and use his aura, and he needs damage to be relevant late game. It sometimes feels that to get the most out of all his skills he needs to build all over the place.

Overall, he's underpowered at the moment, but seems as though it wouldn't take much to push him over the edge of OP. I'd simply remove the cast time from his W and see where he stands there. It would make him an awesome chaser and give him better laning as well. Nothing screams to the enemy GET BACK like seeing him pound the ground. Maybe some stats gain boosts or a buff to his ult cooldown, but I think his W is the big issue to tackle first. I think it should be taken slow with this hero so he doesn't get out of hand.

[[AoLv]LoveIsDead]

My dad purchased LS on his noob 1200 account, he gave me the login info and I managed to stomp mid to the 1600's with this hero. I fell in love with the new hero but I still feel that he's underpowered. My suggestions for this hero :

1. Remove the healing from q to 60 up from 100.
2. Either buff the speed boost from w or remove the casting animation
3.Buff his attack speed as it's ridiculously lowl
4.Increase the range on his aura to 400.
5.Buff his base move speed.
6. Rework his ulty that it also gives a passive where he gains charges for every hero kill her gets <<< this would give him carry potential and make him a lot more funner to use . could rework the numbers to make him not OP.

All in all this hero needs some tweeking.

OH GOD YES PLEASE...
imagine + damage and armor for each kill he aquires from his ult.

[[IaF]Skyve]

Rework his ulty that it also gives a passive where he gains charges for every hero kill her gets <<< this would give him carry potential and make him a lot more funner to use . could rework the numbers to make him not OP.

Not every hero needs carry potential.

[PzKw]

[/SIZE]

Not every hero needs carry potential.

4char

[[ADON]FuzioN]

Go wild!

Ok this hero has so bad synergy with hsi spells first of he has nothing to slow or get close to his enemies.(yes i DO know liftap slows but its stays so little and is so lttle slow and gives low ms boost, the problem is also that he stops to hit the ground so enemy get away should change lifetap so its target unit or target ground targets effected gets slowed by some percentage increased by rank and some small damage increase from magic spells from only salforis and a small portion of heal maybe? also effects his aura. this way he will work alot more, dont need the lifesteal so if this would be to op remove lifesteal from this target unit or target ground aoe slow. and only give it slow and increase of damage from salforis spells(keep in mind only salforis spells wont stack with other heroes spells) that would fix him.

[[IaF]Skyve]

Pebbles must also have bad synergy because his combo requires him to be in melee range.

It's okay for a hero to have weaknesses. That's why there's items. I mean sure, giving a hero that thrives on running down heroes bad base movementspeed could be considered pretty dumb, but that's an entirely different story

[[ADON]FuzioN]

[QUOTE=FuzioN;14583814]Ok this hero has so bad synergy with hsi spells first of he has nothing to slow or get close to his enemies.(yes i DO know liftap slows but its stays so little and is so lttle slow and gives low ms boost, the problem is also that he stops to hit the ground so enemy get away should change lifetap so its target unit or target ground targets effected gets slowed by some percentage increased by rank and some small damage increase from magic spells from only salforis and a small portion of heal maybe? also effects his aura. this way he will work alot more, dont need the lifesteal so if this would be to op remove lifesteal from this target unit or target ground aoe slow. and only give it slow and increase of damage from salforis spells(keep in mind only salforis spells wont stack with other heroes spells) that would fix him.[

There is also a reason why i buy stormspirit on him after marchers and hotbl becuse he needs it to get close to be able to gank but i mean seriously first u need hp then u need marchers then u need stormspirit while u got that his ganking potential is almost lost fix him! compare him to pebb for an example ofc he needs pk but he can kill 10 times easier and is a 100% death if u missed the wardspot/miss unlike salforis u aint unless ur team8s have some good snare and stuff and teambattle as tank his engagement is a joke! /QUOTE]

[Anakha]

I mean sure, giving a hero that thrives on running down heroes bad base movementspeed could be considered pretty dumb, but that's an entirely different story

Or you're forcing people to address very specific weaknesses by itemization or teamwork.

[[eMOD]CEPTofNoob]

Pebbles must also have bad synergy because his combo requires him to be in melee range.

It's okay for a hero to have weaknesses. That's why there's items. I mean sure, giving a hero that thrives on running down heroes bad base movementspeed could be considered pretty dumb, but that's an entirely different story

This is slightly skewered, in a sense that if a person decides to run away from pebbles, his stun at least has a respectable range AND it stuns the target which meant they CANNOT move and can't slow/stun/root you back.

Salf's biggest problem is if i have ghost marchers and i decided that i'm gonna get to melee range to kill someone, they better not have a single slow/stun/root ability because I'm sure as hell never gonna get in range for my slow before they hit me with theirs.
Going with the earlier suggestions, his W needs a rework to give him a better chance to catch someone. This part of this chara reminds me of nomad, cept without the ridiculous scaling damage.

his ult is what makes him a unique character, but it falls in line like a pyro ult where if someone gets a null, he needs a teammate or item to cancel it first instead of behaving like ws/dw where they have their own nullstone removal. The ult's strong, but while it says superior magic, its still only magical damage, which makes the magic armor a pretty huge counter to him. You can argue that its a good zephyr/ra counter, but part of their item build is a shaman's headdress, which rapes the damage of this ult. The fact that shaman's is cheaper than spellshard rank 1 puts a pretty nice dent in his damage.
Odd suggestion from me would be allow this ult to be boosted by staff, seeing as it wouldn't be a horrendous pick up for him to have more hp and mana. Or have a -magic armor effect on that ult to at least make that con target worth throwing your Q at later on in game

if i think up more i'll post it, but this character really needs to figure out what he wants to do, because he's not an amazing tank, doesn't have the mana to support his early game spell damage that only shines in early game, and most certainly can't carry at all.

[SeriousCat]

Pebbles must also have bad synergy because his combo requires him to be in melee range.

It's okay for a hero to have weaknesses. That's why there's items. I mean sure, giving a hero that thrives on running down heroes bad base movementspeed could be considered pretty dumb, but that's an entirely different story

Pebbles has one of the best stuns in the game, and a combo which can decimate fragile opponens in ~1 second. Pebbles doesn't need to stay near the enemy for several seconds, he only needs to say "hi" and make his combo instantly.

[Dany_Fantasy]

My dad purchased LS on his noob 1200 account, he gave me the login info and I managed to stomp mid to the 1600's with this hero. I fell in love with the new hero but I still feel that he's underpowered. My suggestions for this hero :

1. Remove the healing from q to 60 up from 100.
2. Either buff the speed boost from w or remove the casting animation
3.Buff his attack speed as it's ridiculously lowl
4.Increase the range on his aura to 400.
5.Buff his base move speed.
6. Rework his ulty that it also gives a passive where he gains charges for every hero kill her gets <<< this would give him carry potential and make him a lot more funner to use . could rework the numbers to make him not OP.

All in all this hero needs some tweeking.

YaY!
Who the f**k needs support heroes!?

this hero needs support that can slow for him(e.g. monarch,myrm,glac etc.) and there are lots of heroes that do need support aswell!

if u´d tweak him like 90% of the users want him to be tweaked,he would be f*****g huge in early game(due to his aura),in mid game and in late game(thx to his given "carry potential" due to remaining buffs from his ultimate)

and the moaning about his equipment dependence...

i dont want to farm with torturer or defiler either. i want f******g huge amount of hp,mana regen,mobility,slow and shut down implanted in those heroes aswell.

this hero needs everything but buffs. just practice with him figuer out what kinda items are core and which are ****. what heroes he synergizes with and what heroes he doesnt synergize with.

[GregerMoek]

[/SIZE]

Not every hero needs carry potential.

But but, this hero looks so cool he must have carry potential.
Every hero that looks cool and is a knight or something must have carry potential, end of story.

Accursed has
Jeraziah!
Legionnaire can carry with charge.
Swiftblade is carry.
Fayde has agi so can carry.
Rampage.

See all cool heroes got carry potential, so Salf needs it too.

[Gandrac]

Concerning his W .. what about changing his slow effect (with animation) to be activated at the end of the skills duration?

Considering the animation would still happen, 2 seperate Buffs would be needed. One for the Movementspeed which could stay at 4 seconds
with the slow effect at its end and one for the damage/lifeleech component which needed to last for a minimum of 5 seconds.

Oh.. and what about something like building up Movementspeed during the 4 seconds from 0 to 100 ms maybe (at least it would fit nicely with its alt avatar ^^)

.. just some thoughts

[GregerMoek]

Well, many thought MK/Ra and others would be bad.

[Sherwood]

Q - Short cool down but eats a lot of his mana given his pitiful mana pool. Good for farming creeps if leveled and in owner ship of a blood chalice however. Syndergizes with his ultimate due to the ultimate prevents the regen mechanics. Loses its edge late game due to the target regens some health if they remain alive. Can only be cast in a very short range. Pitiful skill to use if chasing if your victim has adequet haste as you stay still briefly to cast. Only useful for early game killing blows/farming creeps and tacked on ultimate synergy. Doesn't scale well with items for single target. Might be a good filler ability (without vindicator).

W - Useful for last hitting and healing/reduce harrasment. More reliable for healing than Blood Hunter's feast early game. Decent single target mini-nuke. Only single target however. Scales well with gear. Must melee hit to heal however. Snares are a bane, however does give small duration of movement speed and aoe snare which helps to chase targets. Although no form of jump.

E - Useful for jungleing. A last-hitting aid if you misjudge timing. Good damage when chasing down a target. Small aoe radius. Health regen only noticeable when you are safe to live right next to the creep waves. Unreliable otherwise. Health regen seems to be tacked on to enable more efficient jungleing. Makes little difference in team fights due to the nature of people wanting to stay away from a melee semi-carry.

R - Extremely situational. Makes this hero a counter pick more than a safe pick. Useful against a team with heals, heroes who stack health regeneration or heroes with other forms of passive-self healing [Zephyr/Predator for example]. The secondary effect of providing a free heal and a buff in till heal is consumed when target died with the debuff, encourages the counter productive use of the ultimate to be placed on easily slain heroes. The ultimate from a team-perspective is best used to counter heal, unfortunately it encourages selfish play to ensure the buff and heal.
The heal cannot be used when silence. Using the heal procs vindicator's aura. Zephyr's whirlwinds don't have these problems.


This hero is a semi-carry counter healing hero. All his abilities except for his ultimate require to be in melee range or very close range. He is the only semi-carry melee hero who has unreliable distance closing except for Warbeast. Warbeast however is a hard carry and tends to spent a vast majority of the game farming a shrunken head. :jera: is support. has a long ranged disable as well as an initiating disable. makes use of a Portal to make full use of his stun. His stun has a decent cast range. uses a PK to burst a target down. is all about chasing and his haemorrhage encourages this. uses mounds. His pet has a ranged snare. support/strange ganker who can viably pick up a PK. magic immunity is part of one of his abilities, free shrunken head if you like. makes significant use of a PK. His Fissure has generous length. tanky chasing hero. generous distance single target disable that draws him to the target, also a viable PK user if needs be. PK user and ranged skill-shot snare. Also able to block one single target spell if able to time well. stalk/invisability. PK user. pk user. long ranged silence with dot, mainly a pusher. Benefits from being a late bloomer due to a potent 80+charge ultimate. PK. support.

Basically, any melee hero without any abilities to safely close distance between them and their target can justify farming for a shrunken head before considering helping with teamfights/supports/builds a PK or can turn up fashionably late (Balphagore).

Since Lord Sillywaddle is not a hard carry he cannot justify hiding to farm a shrunken head to avoid being disabled. His strength comes from strategic use of his ultimate on the correct target and his team following through with this, and being able to maintain melee range on any target to keep self-healing with E. He benefits greatly from being on a team of disablers. He can build a Brutalizer and Frostbrand, but it's better for him to invest in a Shieldbreak to enhance his self-healing. He can build a tanky build, but this comes at a cost of his damage out put. He's not like the other 'tanky' heroes. His 'tanky nature' comes directly from +AP items. The harder he hits, the more he heals for with W.

He's a niche and balanced hero. He just needs the right environment to flourish. And a shrunken head. He gains little from a PK as he has no disable. His ultimate has decent range anyway.

[Alten]

As a tanky niche hero, he doesn't offer enough to be viable over Zephyr or Ra. They easily output more damage than Salf, and possess critical utility that Salf lacks. They scale far more effectively, and there are a myriad of other advantages they possess over Salf.

If he was chosen as a counterpick against Zephyr and Ra (some of only a few heroes I think would suffer critically from the ult), then the comparative damage and utility ratios of both teams would imbalance significantly into the Zephyr/Ra team's favor. Salf takes up an important semi-carry/ranged carry slot that will be filled by another team's Sil, Valk, MoA, FA, etc.; if he is used to heavily damage a tanky carry, the other carry will still be contributing heinous amounts of damage (and other utilities) Salf cannot hope to match. Furthermore, the ultimate only helps damage the tanky carry faster; their inherent nature of being tanky, though, means that they can still last for a significant amount of time and contribute high amounts of damage before dying.

Salf cannot occupy a support role; he is not a "walking ultimate," and other heroes offer far more utility in support roles. He requires all his abilities and significant amounts of gold to utilize those abilities; the problem is that, comparatively, other heroes have abilities and overall skillsets that would benefit far more from that gold (pkeys on Magmus or Behe, anyone?).

The most elegant solution, I think, is to reduce the target's overall damage by a percentage, such as 35-60%, while the ultimate is applied; think of Parasite's Venom, which boosts his own overall damage against a target while lowering a target's overall damage against Parasite. This does not result in the gamebreakingly stupid port of Doombringer's ulti; at the same time, though, it expands Salf to be useful against ANY carry (and many other heroes, besides) by lowering their damage output significantly in all facets against the enemy team.

[[IaF]Skyve]

As a tanky niche hero, he doesn't offer enough to be viable over Zephyr or Ra.

And that's why I always try to explain to people that "tank" is not a role...
Why would you compare Zephyr and Ra (basically carries) to Salforis (ganker)?