Over 32,000 New Yorkers Marched on Brooklyn Bridge Last Night

[Apostate]

So lets see, Five incidents happened in a two month period. Thats pretty great this. That's pretty good for brutality and suppression. Trust me, if the police were REALLY trying to act out of violence and suppression, there would be 500% more incidents. The police are just trying to do their job, protecting the public, while upholding the law. Would you be pissed if a cop was eating at a dinner, and someone was trying to rob the place, and he did not do anything?

Police are no were NEAR what happened in Egypt, or Syria. It's freaking crazy you would even start to compare OWS to their protests.

Like the article said, Protesters are using "Peaceful protests" as a flag to try to get away from illegal activity. There is a diffrence between The march on Brooklyn bridge. (which people who strayed off the path into traffic got arrested, but everyone else was unharmed/unhurrassed). and people sitting down, refusing to move off privet land. One is legal, the other is illegal.

Please stick to the legal protesting, and you won't have any issues with police "brutality and suppression". But I have a feeling I trying to debate with a brick wall. You seem to be so blindsided by what you know, that anything not supporting your ideas and lies and slander that is trying to suppress your voice.

PS. If your prego, why would you protests, even still, why would you disobey police orders? You know there will be repercussions. Same thing for that old lady.

PSS. The tear canister was not point blank. Again, Why would you be in a crowd that is throwing rocks and bottles at police. What do you think they are going to do?

I really shouldn't need to explain to you that those were five examples out of many, nor should I need to point out that the last one affected several hundred people.

Look, I'm not a closeminded guy. If you were saying anything even close to educated or if you came across as anything but ignorant I would give you much more credence. But you can't say things like "they are just trying to protect the public" and expect me to take you any more seriously than I would take a Scientologist. The level of falsehood and delusion is almost comparable here.

It's possible that some of the protests especially in some of the sketchier areas may have gotten out of control. Oakland for one is a good example of this. I'm not talking about that, though. I'm talking about this:
Take a moment to watch this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ePH-...eature=related
College students demonstrating peacefully. 56 of them hospitalized, not a single police officer attacked or injured.

People who are not hurting anyone or doing anything but making their voices heard are being beaten and tortured by police forces in the United States. This is not the police keeping the people safe from rioting low lifes, this is the suppression of change and the ardent defense of the status quo.

All the same, though, continue to defend the people who make more money than your family has made in ten generations this last year. I'm not assuming your conservative but good luck getting anywhere against big money by doing anything else other than taking over the streets and banks and refusing to move.

[Beanybag]

http://xkcd.com/980/

Pretty powerful data. Thought I'd throw that out there. A lot of the numbers were very stunning.
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[[TECH]YawningAngel]

The so-called 99% need to take responsibility for the fact that they voted for these people, they allowed this corrupt system to persist, and they failed to demand any change or holding to account until the entire thing had become irretrievably corrupt.

[[0g]Yin`]

Your whole post hinges on this point, and frankly, I find it sickening.

You admit that our system is all about gaining at the expense of others, then conclude that the best way to solve this is to participate.

Really, I have no words to describe my anger and hatred at people like you, and the people who think that this is in any way, okay.

I try to read and write in this forum without getting angry, but posts like this make me lose my cool. Do you realize that it's not just the poor Americans that are exploited by Capitalism, it is BILLIONS of innocent people around the world, who are exploited every day by the big corporations, and the unjust Socio-Economic "Survival of the Fittest". That's how it works in nature!, I hear.

You people disgust me. We are human beings, we are supposed to have evolved past that grotesque attitude and behavior. If we are still in the "survival of the fittest" mentality, then why the hell did we ever leave the caves? To perpetuate this kind of cruel and brutal idealism, without even the slightest hint of regret or remorse, means that you are still an animal, a barbaric beast masquerading as a civilized human being. If you really think it's okay to benefit at the expense and suffering of billions of others, then you are the lowest form of life on the planet.

The people involved in this movement aren't in it because we're lazy. We're not here because "we didn't work hard enough". We aren't here because the world owes us something. We're here because this system is absolutely wrong. It works by creating an ever-widening gap between the rich and the poor, by pitting mankind against each other, and declaring the victor as the person who can be the greediest, the most extortionist, and the most ruthless of all.

My dad IS part of the 1%. He makes over $100,000 a year. My entire family is involved in programming, they know the trade forwards and backwards. Do you think even for a moment that if I wanted to be rich that I couldn't? Do you think for a moment that making money is my main concern?

NO. My main concerns are people like you. People who think that it's somehow okay that the most of the world is suffering and barely scraping by, while a select few get to live in their cozy homes, with their cozy luxuries, and pretend like everything is going to be okay. I really don't have anything else to say about it. Grow up and wake up.

I don't care because if I did, I would be being intellectually dishonest. Have you ever considered that some people don't give a sh1t because they have deduced to be an irrational act?

Let's look at this from another angle. What is actually wrong with millions (or billions) of people suffering because greed and apathy has caused it, from a logical position?

If you are arguing from the position of moral objectivism, then you have a logically consistent argument, although I would argue that the premises themselves are flawed (and thus ultimately, your argument is meaningless).

I am a moral subjectivist and a subscriber to the position of egoist rationalism. There is zero benefit for me, at least not in the short term to put on my boots and take to the march against "corporate greed" and the "suffering of humanity." I am apathetic because it is logically consistent with my principles (which are still subjective).

Once you start going too far down the rabbit hole, we start to get into a whole new can of worms, e.g. philosophical paradigms. Logically speaking, you have no basis for claiming that we "ought" to behave in a certain prescribed way simply because you "feel" that is is the "right" thing to do. That is outright illogical and blatantly morally presumptuous.

[Lethe]

If you were right, Lethe, you might have a good point. But you're not right. There are plenty of protestors who are not poor and who are not politically uneducated. This isn't a bunch of people angry because life wasn't handed to them, whether or not the media has told you that. For example, 85% of the protestors actually are employed.

The whole point of this protest is that people are upset about how grotesquely unjust the American system is. And it is unjust. It promotes the exaltation of a few over the many in a system we might call a plutocracy.

If this is true then I admit I was at fault. All I remember is weeks back people complaining about 'blatant stock market manipulation'.

However I still don't believe the movement is as unified as you both claim it to be. With the size of OWS, something should have been done by now, but as Macrohard pointed out, no coherent list of demands has been created yet.

Not everyone in these protests has the same motives or mindsets as the next person and that is going to be a problem.

And Hat_truck, my posts were not meant as personal attacks. I don't even know what you do for a living.

[Gipp]

eh my opinion still stands that the protests seem like a waste of time AKA they will accomplish nothing.
until they present a system that actually works better, then i may support it.
not socialism either. if the world worked like that, i would have gotten a C or maybe even failed my last exam that i scored a 100 on but half the class failed.

right now i feel like they are just expecting warren buffet to come down and pass out all of his money

[Lethe]

And quite frankly there are some more serious matters in the US and the world right now.

In fact just today there were fears that the euro debt has spread to Germany, of all countries.

If I were an American I would spend this time accumulating as much savings as I could while I still can. Their financial situation is so bad, yet few actually understand the gravity of the situation. There is something very offsetting about protesting about wealth inequality when the whole country is on the verge of economic collapse.

I'd be bold enough to predict that things will get much worse before they get better in the next 3-5 years. For the sake of Americans, I hope I'm wrong. Yet the numbers are not in their favour.

[[DLGN]Bloodaxe]

I really shouldn't need to explain to you that those were five examples out of many, nor should I need to point out that the last one affected several hundred people.

Look, I'm not a closeminded guy. If you were saying anything even close to educated or if you came across as anything but ignorant I would give you much more credence. But you can't say things like "they are just trying to protect the public" and expect me to take you any more seriously than I would take a Scientologist. The level of falsehood and delusion is almost comparable here.

It's possible that some of the protests especially in some of the sketchier areas may have gotten out of control. Oakland for one is a good example of this. I'm not talking about that, though. I'm talking about this:
Take a moment to watch this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ePH-...eature=related
College students demonstrating peacefully. 56 of them hospitalized, not a single police officer attacked or injured.

People who are not hurting anyone or doing anything but making their voices heard are being beaten and tortured by police forces in the United States. This is not the police keeping the people safe from rioting low lifes, this is the suppression of change and the ardent defense of the status quo.

All the same, though, continue to defend the people who make more money than your family has made in ten generations this last year. I'm not assuming your conservative but good luck getting anywhere against big money by doing anything else other than taking over the streets and banks and refusing to move.

What you don't see in that movie is the police asking them to disperse. They asked ATLEST 3 different times. The Student recived a Written Warning about their actions. They even tried to pick them up and move them, but they stayed like that. They are no longer "Peaceful protesters" they are committing a criminal act. Failure to obey a police order. There was a reason why they could not sit there.

If you are going to disobey the law, prepare to face what comes next.

Also, don't assume I am protecting "big money" I am protecting our Police Men and Women who put their lives on the line everyday to protect us. Without them our country would be a VERY shitty place.

[[Poni]Octavia]

So if a police officer tells you to suck his dick is refusal to do so a crime? Being warned to not do something doesn't make doing it a crime, and if it does, maybe that's why some people are protesting.

[[DLGN]Bloodaxe]

So if a police officer tells you to suck his dick is refusal to do so a crime? Being warned to not do something doesn't make doing it a crime, and if it does, maybe that's why some people are protesting.

of course for everything there are extremes that you don't have to follow.

[[TECH]YawningAngel]

So we've agreed that what you do have to follow is entirely subjective? Right-oh. The police are there to enforce the law. The police would love it if everyone stayed indoors with their hands on the table where they can be seen and everything sharper than a spoon was banned, but that doesn't mean we should listen to them when they say that's what should happen.

[Hat_Truck]

The so-called 99% need to take responsibility for the fact that they voted for these people, they allowed this corrupt system to persist, and they failed to demand any change or holding to account until the entire thing had become irretrievably corrupt.

Perhaps this is true, but it's been true throughout history. Intellectualism and rational thought never caused Revolution, it's always been poverty, suffering, and desperation. Human beings (on a massive scale) just aren't smart or intellectually advanced enough to stop a problem before it becomes an issue, we don't raise arms against it until it has already reached the breaking point.

And quite frankly there are some more serious matters in the US and the world right now.

In fact just today there were fears that the euro debt has spread to Germany, of all countries.

If I were an American I would spend this time accumulating as much savings as I could while I still can. Their financial situation is so bad, yet few actually understand the gravity of the situation. There is something very offsetting about protesting about wealth inequality when the whole country is on the verge of economic collapse.

I'd be bold enough to predict that things will get much worse before they get better in the next 3-5 years. For the sake of Americans, I hope I'm wrong. Yet the numbers are not in their favour.

How is it that you think these two situations are mutually exclusive? Corporate greed and intentional inequality are TO THANK for the shitty way things have become.

I am a moral subjectivist and a subscriber to the position of egoist rationalism. There is zero benefit for me, at least not in the short term to put on my boots and take to the march against "corporate greed" and the "suffering of humanity." I am apathetic because it is logically consistent with my principles (which are still subjective).

Congratulations, you are at step 2. You're a little above the Christians, I guess that's something.

http://i.imgur.com/sI3lw.png

[Drasha]

Fun fact every one acting in their own self interest is in the best interest of society.

[Lethe]

How is it that you think these two situations are mutually exclusive? Corporate greed and intentional inequality are TO THANK for the shitty way things have become.

http://i.imgur.com/sI3lw.png

corporate greed and intentional inequality have been going on for a while. Coincidence that people start voicing their concerns now when issues are clearly in the limelight? How convenient. Why didn't I see people protesting in 2009 and 2010 when the economy was 'recovering?'

Not to mention the billions spent on 'defence', sacrificing needless American lives. Or how about the tax loopholes...what are the statistics, like 45% of Americans or something like that pay taxes?

Even with so many protesters, they have failed to accomplish anything, only wasting time and resources. Wake me up when you guys actually accomplish something.

[Hat_Truck]

Fun fact every one acting in their own self interest is in the best interest of society.

Not necessarily. What if you feel it's in your best interest to kill people? What if you feel it's in your best interest to support Nazism and the extermination of the Jews? What if you feel it's in your best interest to participate in a flawed and self-destructive system (Capitalism)?

It's been Scientifically proven that the most successful way to be is to do what's best for yourself AND the group.

[[GR]LadyGaga]

I love how these liberal hippies are personifying their problems by blaming "big government."

[Apostate]

Fun fact every one acting in the best interest of society are acting in their own self interest.

fixed

[`Celestia]

corporate greed and intentional inequality have been going on for a while. Coincidence that people start voicing their concerns now when issues are clearly in the limelight? How convenient. Why didn't I see people protesting in 2009 and 2010 when the economy was 'recovering?'

Not to mention the billions spent on 'defence', sacrificing needless American lives. Or how about the tax loopholes...what are the statistics, like 45% of Americans or something like that pay taxes?

Even with so many protesters, they have failed to accomplish anything, only wasting time and resources. Wake me up when you guys actually accomplish something.

The statistic is based on income tax. Those people are still paying things like sales tax which is a much large part of their income then it is for the people who are not exempt from income tax.

Not necessarily. What if you feel it's in your best interest to kill people? What if you feel it's in your best interest to support Nazism and the extermination of the Jews? What if you feel it's in your best interest to participate in a flawed and self-destructive system (Capitalism)?

It's been Scientifically proven that the most successful way to be is to do what's best for yourself AND the group.

The vast majority of people do not feel killing is in their best interest so society still prospers. Capitalism is an excellent system. Problems occur when people try to prevent capitalism from taking place.

[Drasha]

fixed

Communism sure did work well...

You guys should take a class on economics.

[Beanybag]

The so-called 99% need to take responsibility for the fact that they voted for these people, they allowed this corrupt system to persist, and they failed to demand any change or holding to account until the entire thing had become irretrievably corrupt.

See everything that was said on corporatism and how we have a republic in the US, not a full-on democracy. When money owns politics, every vote is the wrong vote. You can't hold that against us. Not to mention we had fought against this through laws. Some of these laws even passed. But none of them were effective. Protest is honestly the only recourse. I just wish these protests would take on some form, purpose, and shape so I could know where to stand. I'm tired of the cutesy hard-to-get act, people need to decide what they all ultimately agree on here, otherwise they ARE just a bunch of complainers.

Not necessarily. What if you feel it's in your best interest to kill people? What if you feel it's in your best interest to support Nazism and the extermination of the Jews? What if you feel it's in your best interest to participate in a flawed and self-destructive system (Capitalism)?

It's been Scientifically proven that the most successful way to be is to do what's best for yourself AND the group.

People might feel it's in their best interest to kill people sometimes, which is why we have the criminal justice system. Life in prison seems like it might be a deterrent for some people considering murder. It's not always the case, so we enforce that punishment on them as they have demonstrated they aren't fit in society. And if people feel it's in their best interest to support nazism, they have that choice and some in the US do. Luckily, most people understand that it's quite foolish to pin all your problems on a minority. As far as capitalism goes, I've not been sufficiently convinced that there is a system besides capitalism that I'd like to live in. I believe that with a properly made government that puts checks and restrictions in the right places without having to parent the people, but instead maximizing freedoms within would work fine, and I've yet to see a good implementation of this. It does depend on a very good education system, something I think our country has failed to understand the importance of. Maybe it requires socialism until the people within have become sufficiently educated. Maybe not.

Second part: Has it? I'd like a source on that.
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