Thread: Gemini

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  1. #1

    Gemini

    In-Game guide here! http://www.heroesofnewerth.com/heroe....php?gid=68242 please be so kind as to up-vote it if you read this guide

    Note: I'm a big supporter of mentoring, so if you specifically want me to help you improve your Gemini skills in-game, throw me a pm with possible times and I will be happy to play a couple games with you

    Foreword: Any constructive criticism is still welcomed as I work to make this guide premium. The build is mostly set in stone, but suggestions are still accepted. I realize that Gemini will most likely be changed several times in the future and I will be sure to update this guide quickly and accurately. Some features that will be improved upon soon is the replay section and more in-depth pictures and mechanics for the skills. Thanks!



    Gemini is a very unique and challenging hero to play. With a high skill cap and large variety in his gameplay from game to game, playing him is fun and rewarding.

    This Gemini guide details what I strongly consider the most effective method to play him at any skill level. It will focus on his Fire and Ice form which, if used properly, truly brings out the strengths of the hero pushing his potential damage output, survivability, and mobility to the limit.

    Before discussing how to play the hero, however, a brief introduction is necessary.
    As such, I present Gemini

    Table of Contents
    (A) Stats and Ability description and analysis
    (B) General game play and item progression
    (C) How to micro/fight with
    Fireand Ice
    (D) Best Friends/Worst Enemies
    (E) Replays
    ---------------------------------------------

    (A)



    Strength : 19 (+2.1)

    Agility : 22 (+3.0)

    Intelligence: 17 (+1.9)

    Gemini possesses a very high total stat gain and above average gains for all attributes. His starting stats are average if not slightly above average.

    Int:
    Gemini has a rather high int score. This allows him to use his relatively cheap skills on a regular basis without needing items to improve his mana pool or mana regen.


    Agi:
    His very high agi gain should be taken into account when deciding to buy damage items or survivability items. His damage will be relatively high even without items, so survivability items are a first priority.


    Str:
    His Strength gain is good for an agi hero, but still won't carry him too far by itself considering the amount of enemy attention he will hopefully be receiving. It will need to be augmented relatively soon into the game if it isn't to become a problem.


    Other stats

    Base damage: 46-51

    armor : 4.08

    move speed : 300

    His base damage is below average but still far better than most ranged heroes. Take this into account when laning against melee/ranged heroes and deciding whether or not a hatchet is necessary.

    His armor is average. It will make him somewhat resilient to harassment but not overly so. Take this into account when deciding whether or not a buckler is needed in lane.

    His movement speed is average. Be sure to compare it to whoever you are laning against and make a mental note of whether or not you can outrun them.

    Skill Set



    Quite a decent damage spell. It does a reasonable amount of damage even at lower levels with a somewhat weak but still very useful slow effect. This skill with be a large portion of your damage in wolf (non-ult) form.


    As you can see, the cone AOE is huge. It reaches further than you can target similar to skills such as witch slayer's stun so you should be aware of its actual range.



    Twin Fangs is a very effective escape and chasing mechanism. The nuke and stun are alright, but the blink/invulnerability effect is generally what gemini will utilize the most. It has a slightly longer cast time than most blinks so keep that in mind when trying to disjoint or dodge any time of ability. You cannot use Twin Fangs while immobilized. Note that the targeting distance is exactly the same as the actual distance of the spell. Click on the very edge of how far you can target will insure that you land on the spot you wish to land on.



    You'll notice that most of the area in between yourself and your target is covered by damage area of effects. There is a very small blind spot right in the center, however, so try to not use the skill when your enemy will be in the blind spot.



    Twin Strike shines extremely late into the game. It increases the effectiveness of items that have percentage-based proc abilities and gives essentially a guaranteed 25% crit every attack. It is approximately the same as a 100% crit with a 25% chance to proc, so it scales relatively well. This ability alone, although keeping gemini pertinent late game, is not enough for gemini to nearly compete with the classic hard carries that all have much stronger scaling abilities. This ability has a place, but in reality does not come into place in a majority of games.



    This is Gemini's highlight skill and the is what gives him his presence in a game. Note several key aspects to this ability. They are essential to understanding how to effectively utilize Gemini
    - static movement speed of 270/400/430 on the wolves regardless of boots
    - high magic armor at later levels
    -Only affected purely by stats (and auras, which DO work centered on Fire )
    -Combing them again will result in Gemini having the health and mana % of the highest hp and highest mana from either wolf

    -The wolves have four abilities. Both have a 125/175/225 damage spray nuke similar to twin breath. The Ice wolf has a slow affect and the Fire wolf has a burn affect.
    -They both have a blink strike with 500 range that does 80/120/160 damage and stuns for .5 seconds
    -They both can teleport to the each other after a 3 second channel time
    -They can recombine into Gemini again if they are within 300 units. Both wolves are essentially disabled during channeling.

    Also note that this skill cools down even while in Fire and ice form. This is very important to be aware of.
    Also also note that both wolves get full exp within their exp range. Both wolves can farm and get exp just as well as the other.
    This skill and the other skills will be discussed at further length later on.
    A section on
    Fire and Ice micro and combat is available later in this guide.

    Last edited by demonwing; 12-07-2011 at 07:41 PM.

  2. #2

    (B)
    Gameplay and item/skill builds


    Now that the lengthy introductions are out of the way, on to item builds and gameplay.

    Gemini should generally be played as a solo hero. He is not the greatest solo in the world, but he can get a reasonable number of creeps kills while staying alive due to Twin Fangs. He desperately needs early levels, however. As such, unless you are certain you will be destroyed in a particular mid match up or other extenuating circumstances present themselves, you should go mid. Gameplay in a dual lane is very similar to gameplay in a solo lane for Gemini the only difference being that you will be severely limited for a good portion of the early game in a dual lane.
    In general, however, this guide will assume a solo mid gemini.

    Starting item build:



    Standard regen and a Pretenders Crown that you can build later into a bracer. I have found that a hatchet is rather necessary to lane with because of Gem's low base damage and low lane control. The ranged ability will net a lot of extra ck over the course of the lane and lets you stay much further back more often.

    Here's the basic skill build:



    This build focuses on Fire and Ice form. Because Fire and Ice form relies entirely on stats, leveling your other skills is not as effective as simply skilling stats. I am not implying that the other skills are useless, but that that leveling them quickly is not entirely necessary. Having a high stat score early, however, to allow you to stay in Fire and Ice form, is completely necessary.
    Twin Strike is not useful until very late in the game, when you will need to stay in Gemini form more and fight more often. Twin Fang scales rather poorly with levels, so I take it last. use your judgement when tweaking this build.

    Your first skill is preferably stats, but if you expect a level 1 gank or some other form of danger very early on you should skill Twin Fangs to escape. Do not decide on what to level first until the creeps spawn and you are aware of where the enemy heroes are on the map.

    How to conduct yourself at mid before level 6

    If you are playing against a ranged hero, try not to be too aggressive unless the opponent is out of position. If you will inevitably take four or more hits from your opponent in order to get one creep kill, you probably should just leave it. Your main goal is not to farm (although you should certainly try your best), but to get levels. If you need an extra potion, which is unlikely, then ferry it over. Don't be reluctant. You should ferry over the components to create two Bracers as soon as you can.

    Do not ferry over a bottle or marchers despite what all your games of HoN have taught you. Gemini plays much differently than any other hero.


    Make it difficult for your opponent to get last hits and try to get some in yourself. As I said before, you main goal is to level quickly. Because of your points in stats, don't be afraid to be slightly more liberal with yourself than you would normally playing safe, but still be very careful.

    After level 6

    The moment you hit level 6 you will pick up your game considerably. Immediately skill your ult and use it. If you are against a squishier hero at mid with no escapes such as flint or if you have harassed the enemy hero an adequate amount, you can kill him or her right now. If not, leave Fire in lane and send Ice to a lane that can be ganked. Focus your camera on Fire while Ice is traveling and be careful as you will be rather vulnerable to the enemy mid.
    If the enemy heroes in the lane that Ice traveled to are ever out of position, move Fire to a somewhat safe spot and teleport him toIce. His channeling should end just as the enemy heroes are being initiated upon for the highest efficiency. A more in-depth discussion on how to fight with Fire and Ice is presented later in the guide.

    The rest of the midgame

    Item progression for mid game.



    Note how I stay with the theme of pure stat items. The only stats you need are strength and Agility. As a general rule, strength should be emphasized more than agility. Buy a Mighty Blade and an Arm Band that can be built into Steam Boots and and Ice Brand later on. Carry a tp always just in case, but you should not use nearly as many tps as you would with most heroes.

    Gemini does not necessarily need early boots. If other items are a priority, buy those instead. Fire and Ice have static movement speeds that are not affected by boots.





    You should eventually build your Mighty Blade into a Frost Brand and get Steam Boots
    . Buy an Abyssal Skull after your Frost Brand for a huge dps and survivability boost followed by a firebrand to complete your Frostburn.

    Gemini's gameplay and role during the midgame is relatively simple to describe but very difficult to put into practice efficiently. Using Fire and Ice at this point in the game requires experience and practice. Keep this in mind during your games and do not be afraid to experiment.

    Fire andIce should never be together unless they are fighting enemy heroes. There is no reason for them to move around the map or farm together and doing so essentially cuts their mobility and general utility in half. The general form the two wolves will be taking in most circumstances is Fire farming or pushing while Ice roams. Although the two wolves are very similar,Ice is slightly better in case he is caught alone in a fight against opposing heroes because of his slow while Fire is a slightly better farmer/pusher because of the burn damage on his spray.

    Trips to fountain should be few and far between and if it needs to be done, use only one wolf to take the trip. The only time both wolves should ideally be at the fountain is when you are buying items, which will seem painfully slow after such mobile gameplay but must be done at times. When things are quiet and you have 2k+ gold saved up don't be afraid to take a little shopping trip.
    Note that the courier can deliver items to Fire and they will appear on Gemini when you merge again. Everything functions as if you had made a normal delivery to Gemini. The stat gain, however, will not appear on the wolves until they reform.

    Try to push with one wolf whenever you have an opening. Your purpose mid game is to control the game and to ensure your team is always on superior footing. Gemini is the only hero that can completely produce an "everywhere at once" effect and this is where his strength lies.

    This style of play is why Gemini should not try to build very bulky, large items until later into the game. Large periods in which you do not get any stronger create openings and chances for your opponent to catch up. Buy smaller items, such as the recommended quick blades and mighty blades to stay ahead as much and as long as possible

    In essence, your goal is to be as painfully bloodily annoying as possible. Poke, prod, pester, follow, do whatever it takes to annoy the other team to no end. Mobility and constant awareness of your wolves and how quickly they can access each other is key.

    You'll want to build a Brutalizer in most games. It is the perfect transition from your mid game Fire and Ice focus to your late game Gemini focus, giving stats for Fire and Ice while synergizing very well with Gemini's Twin Strike.

    Late game

    "Tiered out"ish items



    You'll generally want a Shrunken Head first thing after you start using Gemini more toward the late game. If you don't feel you need it, go straight for a Savage Mace for ridiculous dps boost. After your Shrunken if the game still continues on you may want to consider replacing your Abyssal Skull with a DPS item for Gemini (again, generally Savage Mace).

    As late game drags on, you will inevitably fall behind true hard carries especially if you remain in Fire and Ice form most of the time. You will still be a force to be reckoned with, however, especially if you transitioned well into Gemini carrying with his Twin Strike and Shrunken. You are able to push frighteningly well and still output a lot of damage and are extremely survivable. your wolves may need to be together for longer periods of time as teams will be moving as five almost always. Of course, you should always stay in ult form as you have throughout the entire game but you can be much less afraid of Gemini himself getting his hands (paws) dirty. Focus down heroes as you would normally. Highest dps and lowest hp heroes should be taken out first and then down from there. Keep your wits about you and make sure a wolf doesn't get caught. You'll have much less time to react than during early and mid game if something goes wrong.

    Last edited by demonwing; 12-06-2011 at 06:33 PM.

  3. #3
    (C)

    Micro and combat methods/combos

    An essential part of playing Gemini properly is, of course, microing your wolves and knowing how to fight with them. Fighting efficiently takes practice and a calm, collected head.

    To begin, you should hotkey
    Fire, Ice, and both together. I always use 1 for Fire, 2 for Ice, and 3 for both Fire and Ice in a control group. In addition, you should hotkey Gemini himself to 4. This allows you to quickly check his cooldowns and put points into skills when he levels up. When controlling both Fire and Ice in different locations, Keep your camera on the wolf you believe is in more danger but keep your eyes constantly on the minimap looking at the other wolf. Always be sure to focus your attention according to the amount of danger a wolf is in. If Fire, for example, is run down your lane back to base when all of your towers are up, you probably don't need to pay much if any attention to him. If Ice is roaming around the enemy woods while Fire farms a lane, however, you eyes had better be very intent on making sure Fire is not ganked while your camera is on Ice.

    combat

    Focusing one hero
    Always initiate a fight in
    Fire and Ice form. In almost all situations, you'll want to focus one hero. To do this, select both wolves and have one, say Fire, leap at an enemy hero and then immediately attack him during the .5 second stun. Hit tab, switching to Ice, and now have him leap right after the .5 second stun wears off and immediately attack. Now, while Fire and Ice wait in between attacks, have both quickly spray with [Q tab click Q tab click] and proceed to auto attack the hero while he or she is slowed.

    At this point, if you determine it is first priority to kill the hero and he or she just left your melee range, combine into Gemini, leap at the hero, spray, and use
    Fire and Ice form again after which you can do the double wolf combo again. If that still doesn't kill him and you are truly desperate for the kill, you can combine again and leap/spray with Gemini. The hero will almost certainly not survive a full double ult combo.

    Note that doing the full combo makes you useless for the rest of the fight and requires a very large amount of time without other enemy interference. The full combo takes upwards of 15 seconds. You will usually only need half of it or so.

    Knowing How to Take Damage

    It sounds weird, but a key aspect of playing Gemini is knowing how to take damage. You only want one wolf to take the majority of damage thrown at you. This allows you to recombine later with one of the wolves being at high health, essentially erasing the damage you took.

    The following example demonstrates the important of taking damage and positioning your wolves properly.

    You take 4000 damage over the course of a team fight. Each wolf has 1500 hp

    scenario 1. One wolf takes all of the damage and dies. this is the worst scenario and demonstrates improper microing and awareness. 1500 total damage taken

    scenario 2. The damage is split evenly between the two wolves. This is alright, but can still be improved upon quite a bit. 3000 total damage taken

    scenario 3.
    Fire takes 1300 damage and merges with Ice immediately splitting again afterward. Both wolves split the remaining damage. This is generally what you'll manage to accomplish in most fights. Very efficient. 4300 damage taken and Gemini lives.

    scenario 4.
    Fire takes 1300 damage and merges with Ice immediately splitting again afterward. After the split, Ice takes 1400 damage and merges with Fire just as he's about to die. gemini takes the remaining damage. Another variation of scenario 3. Use either in different situations depending on what is possible at the time for you to do. 4200 damage taken and Gemini lives.

    Be sure to spread your wolves out as much as possible to avoid AOE damage. You should feel bad every time both wolves get hit by one skill.

    Keep your wolves focused on one hero at a time but try to spread out whenever possible while staying near enough to merge at an instant's notice.

    Gemini's ability in fights comes from his extremely high survivability per knowing how to minimize damage dealt to you. Be as annoying as possible and don't be afraid to tank some serious damage for your team mates. try to control the fight and get all of the enemy team's attention. Keep your wits about you and you'll live through untold amounts of aggression.


    (D)
    Best Friends

    et al.

    Any hero that can disable well and complement your disruption abilities is great. In addition, any hero that specializes in single targeting is also your favorite enemy as you can simply merge out of whatever single target nonsense they are doing to one of your wolves. Demented shaman receives a special mention because of his aoe heal and armor reduction capabilities, both of which help your wolves out a lot. Other heroes with aoe buffs work well also.

    Worst Enemies




    Any hero with a large AOE presence or abilities to easily get you off of someone you are trying to burst down will give you a pain. you just need to be very careful around them and keep as spread out as possible. Try to take them down early. Succubus deserves a special mention because she can sleep one of your wolves and ult or smitten the other. . . ouch!

    (E)
    Replays

    Gemini being used in 1700+ games (1900+ pre-compression)

    1. TMMing against Angrytestie. This game mostly demonstrates when to farm and when to gank. It also shows what to do when mid does not go exactly how you may like. Notice that when we fall behind early game I gank heavily and focus on defending towers. As the game begins to even up and it's clear that we eventually will have to push to win, I go on a farming spree to 16 and even ask my team mates (in voip) to give all of the bottom/jungle exp to me. After 16, I gank and push very aggressively to end the game. Also shows a true transition into carry Gemini (with Shrunken being the next item)

    Match 76046434

    2. Stompy 15 minute CC game. Shows what to do assuming everything goes perfectly and demonstrates good mobility. Good to watch just to get a feel for the hero.

    Match 72077867

    3. Another game to familiarize yourself with Gemini. I die a couple times to Gauntlet, but generally nothing noteworthy. Shows generally good practices.

    Match 72042445

    4. Demonstrates a much longer and more difficult game. Shows Gemini in a less dominating environment and shows what to do when the going gets tough

    Match 72928454
    Last edited by demonwing; 12-18-2011 at 04:54 PM.

  4. #4
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  5. #5
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  6. #6
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    Great guide, very thorough. The technique of moving Ice from the middle lane to go set up a gank that you bring Fire to was a new idea to me, and I have since used it successfully in several games.

    My only disagreement is that I think after you've bought your frostburn and mighty blade, I usually grab a dancing blade or an axe of the malphai depending on whether more damage or more health is needed. I don't see the point in getting a frostwulf. Way too much wasted gold on a modifier you wont use and on mana you won't spend.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Apostate View Post
    My only disagreement is that I think after you've bought your frostburn and mighty blade, I usually grab a dancing blade or an axe of the malphai depending on whether more damage or more health is needed. I don't see the point in getting a frostwulf. Way too much wasted gold on a modifier you wont use and on mana you won't spend.
    This is my biggest dilemma at the moment in my build. Whether to save up for an Axe or a Dancing Blade or stick to good ol' mighty blades and quick blades to use in smaller, more readily accessible items earlier on. Gemini has no issues hoarding gold for the large stat items, so that really isn't too big of an issue.

    I tend to lean toward the smaller item approach. I generally build two Frostburns for their very good price and slot efficiency in regards to stats.
    You need to be aware that Gemini is not only Fire and Ice. Most people only consider one or the other. They will either buy all attack modifiers or all stats.

    In this case, the double Frostburns are very very good with Fire and Ice form (ironically enough considering they are the same theme). Later on however, Gemini himself will be doing a lot of fighting (I'm talking 40-50+ minute games). When this starts to happen, you can split one Frostburn into Geo's and FWS which completely solves normal form Gemini's horrible mobility. The other Frostburn can be split and the mighty blade/quick foot boot can be made into a Brutalizer and Shrunken Head with the last two slots being an eventual steam boots pickup and most likely Abyssal.

    I believe that type of transition perfectly uses the splitting ability of Frostburn and transitions very well into the late stage of the game when your Fire and Ice form doesn't seem to quite cut it many times.
    '
    Edit: scrap this. Theorycrafting fail.

    I will also experiment with Sol's Bulwark, as the aura works with Fire and Ice.
    Then again, there are many game-dependant items that Gemini can pick up that I will go more in-depth about when I have time later on.
    Some things you might see changed in the coming days. Thanks for your input
    Last edited by demonwing; 11-17-2011 at 08:58 PM.

  8. #8
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    Course I've also made a habit of picking up a major totem after my two soulscreams, before I grab a frostburn. This may or may not be a good idea, but so far it's worked.

    I am very happy that I started using the stat build overall, it is *much* more effective than building loads of procs and staying in Gemini form most of the game.

  9. #9
    I like this build and intend to use it when Gemini is released. After watching two of the replays I can see that it has a few very good points in it and it looks fun enough. I have just one question or remark. You give points to stats to raise the dmg of your ice and fire. However, by putting points into stats won't you miss a lot of burst damage from your 1st and 2nd skill? In ganking the dmg they add is no laughing matter. And in the typical MM games I can't rely on teammates to stun or slow.

    What is your view on this?

    Other than that; Great guide, love it!
    Check out my hero design, The Condra:
    http://dream.heroesofnewerth.com/her...t/The%20Condra
    Rate it and please leave feedback ty

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by wietepiet View Post
    I like this build and intend to use it when Gemini is released. After watching two of the replays I can see that it has a few very good points in it and it looks fun enough. I have just one question or remark. You give points to stats to raise the dmg of your ice and fire. However, by putting points into stats won't you miss a lot of burst damage from your 1st and 2nd skill? In ganking the dmg they add is no laughing matter. And in the typical MM games I can't rely on teammates to stun or slow.

    What is your view on this?

    Other than that; Great guide, love it!
    tl;dr at bottom. Gray part is somewhat long winded.

    At level 6, skill breath/fangs/breath/fangs/breath gives 405 magic damage burst in Gemini form.
    At level 6, skilling stats/fangs/stats/breath/stats gives 195 magic damage burst in Gemini form.

    The difference is 210 magic damage.

    3 points in stats gives +114 hp, +.84 armor, +6 damage. and +78 mana


    Points are put into stats primarily to raise the HP of Fire and Ice. The worst thing
    in the entire world early game is an enemy team that can burst your wolves down and I assure you, your wolves are not the tankiest units in the game at all. Unlike most heroes, on which an extra 100 hp is not entirely necessary early game, Gemini can function perfectly well as long as his hp is not 0. A Moonqueen getting ganked with +100 hp from stats is still a dead moonqueen even if she survives the full stun duration or at least needs to take a trip to well. A Gemini getting ganked with +100 hp could buy enough time for a merge back to near full health and a turnaround. Truly, every hit point on Gemini is very valuable (doubled or even tripled)

    This is why I buy straight 2 Soulscream Rings and skill +6 stats. I am even experimenting with buying 2 bracers instead of Rings against many lineups/heroes.
    This combo gives you +12 stats with the gold normally used for a bottle. Fire and Ice will both have easily over 1000 hit points. When you gain a couple more levels and get your first mighty blade, Fire and Ice both have around 1500 HP. The only reason for this is the +~30 stats from items and skilling stats. A normal build would result in barely 900 hp.


    It is a similar concept to getting helm on Magebane before getting other damage items. Some heroes are built in an attempt to emphasize their strengths and some heroes are built more efficiently trying to minimize their weaknesses. You could get more burst out of gemini by skilling his nukes, but does he truly need it? You will find that Gemini is not limited by his damage output early game, but by his survivability. As such, it is reasonable to focus on increasing his survivablility. Trying to do too many things with one hero results in problems with game play. Here, I focus on Fire and Ice. Trying to play with Fire and Ice while trying to make Gemini form good too will result in both forms being merely mediocre instead of one being great. Such a result is undesirable.


  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by demonwing View Post
    tl;dr at bottom. Gray part is somewhat long winded.

    At level 6, skill breath/fangs/breath/fangs/breath gives 405 magic damage burst in Gemini form.
    At level 6, skilling stats/fangs/stats/breath/stats gives 195 magic damage burst in Gemini form.

    The difference is 210 magic damage.

    3 points in stats gives +114 hp, +.84 armor, +6 damage. and +78 mana


    Points are put into stats primarily to raise the HP of Fire and Ice. The worst thing
    in the entire world early game is an enemy team that can burst your wolves down and I assure you, your wolves are not the tankiest units in the game at all. Unlike most heroes, on which an extra 100 hp is not entirely necessary early game, Gemini can function perfectly well as long as his hp is not 0. A Moonqueen getting ganked with +100 hp from stats is still a dead moonqueen even if she survives the full stun duration or at least needs to take a trip to well. A Gemini getting ganked with +100 hp could buy enough time for a merge back to near full health and a turnaround. Truly, every hit point on Gemini is very valuable (doubled or even tripled)

    This is why I buy straight 2 Soulscream Rings and skill +6 stats. I am even experimenting with buying 2 bracers instead of Rings against many lineups/heroes.
    This combo gives you +12 stats with the gold normally used for a bottle. Fire and Ice will both have easily over 1000 hit points. When you gain a couple more levels and get your first mighty blade, Fire and Ice both have around 1500 HP. The only reason for this is the +~30 stats from items and skilling stats. A normal build would result in barely 900 hp.


    It is a similar concept to getting helm on Magebane before getting other damage items. Some heroes are built in an attempt to emphasize their strengths and some heroes are built more efficiently trying to minimize their weaknesses. You could get more burst out of gemini by skilling his nukes, but does he truly need it? You will find that Gemini is not limited by his damage output early game, but by his survivability. As such, it is reasonable to focus on increasing his survivablility. Trying to do too many things with one hero results in problems with game play. Here, I focus on Fire and Ice. Trying to play with Fire and Ice while trying to make Gemini form good too will result in both forms being merely mediocre instead of one being great. Such a result is undesirable.

    I'm not really a tl;dr person so I read all of it. I see you've put a lot of effort and work into calculating all these differences. Indeed it is as you say and I do think that stats>burst for gemini. Thank you for the input and I hope to see this guide as the most used one soon in the guide list!

    Sidenote: I never knew that tab could be used to switch between user controlled units! I always used ` for changing to courier and had to ctrl+1 etc to give units a spot. I'm wondering...Does this work for wild soul as well? It would make it even easier to play with him!
    Check out my hero design, The Condra:
    http://dream.heroesofnewerth.com/her...t/The%20Condra
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  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by wietepiet View Post
    Sidenote: I never knew that tab could be used to switch between user controlled units! I always used ` for changing to courier and had to ctrl+1 etc to give units a spot. I'm wondering...Does this work for wild soul as well? It would make it even easier to play with him!
    Tab has limited usefulness with wildsoul because it only switches between the different unit's skill sets and BooBoo does not really have any on-demand active skills. You will still control the movement and attack commands of both units at the same time as long as both are selected. Gemini, on the other hand, has 8 skills between both wolves that need to be used constantly, so tabbing between the two wolves' skillsets is very useful. You will still need to manually select the individual units with 1 and 2 (for example) if you want them to move to different places or attack different targets than the other.

    Edit: Today I accidentally found that if you hold ctrl while tabbed to a unit and giving it orders, you will control only that unit and that any other unit in the control group. This way you can tell one unit to attack a specific target. Nifty in some cases.

    ty and Thanks for your input
    Last edited by demonwing; 11-18-2011 at 11:37 PM.

  13. #13
    A very inspiring guide, which I tried out on my smurf account, being a huge gemini fan. Worked wonders, netting me an immortal even. If you came up with the stats-gemini build on your own, then hats off to you, sir!
    http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/sh...40#post1729640
    The great list of hard and soft skills you need, to play HoN!

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by wYnDoN View Post
    A very inspiring guide, which I tried out on my smurf account, being a huge gemini fan. Worked wonders, netting me an immortal even. If you came up with the stats-gemini build on your own, then hats off to you, sir!
    I came up with the idea almost entirely on my own. It was inspired by an aura build that someone else had posted on the forum. That gave me the idea to make an entirely fire-and-ice focused build.
    I have since seen one or two less optimized versions of this build posted in strategy.

  15. #15
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    Very nice.

  16. #16
    After playing several games with Gemini, exploiting this strategy I must say, you underrate his end-game carry potential. He rivals some of the hardest carries in game, when used correctly (vide - "gracefully" taking dmg).
    http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/sh...40#post1729640
    The great list of hard and soft skills you need, to play HoN!

  17. #17
    I don't agree with your item build. If you are mainly staying as Fire and Ice, I feel it is more efficient to go 4 to 5 wraith bands, then start replacing them with blessed orbs. When you start running out of space again, convert them into geo bane and FWS.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by `Screw View Post
    I don't agree with your item build. If you are mainly staying as Fire and Ice, I feel it is more efficient to go 4 to 5 wraith bands, then start replacing them with blessed orbs. When you start running out of space again, convert them into geo bane and FWS.
    This is very inneficient. Look at all of the gold you are losing with your wraith bands that you will sell later anyway. In addition, Blessed orbs are the least efficient means of getting stats. You get +10 int which is useless, so right off the bat you are paying for something you don't use. The +10 agi and str come at a bad price in one large lump sum that forfeits a lot of momentum (which is what Gemini plays off of)

    After playing several games with Gemini, exploiting this strategy I must say, you underrate his end-game carry potential. He rivals some of the hardest carries in game, when used correctly (vide - "gracefully" taking dmg).
    Gemini scales relatively late, but he will inevitably be overtaken by any of the traditional hard carries when games get 50+ minutes. The only way he will "outcarry" them is by disrupting them enough early game to hinder their farm when it gets late.

    Anyway, big update coming today with a better build I've been testing and some more in-depth analysis. Look forward to it!

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by demonwing View Post
    This is very inneficient. Look at all of the gold you are losing with your wraith bands that you will sell later anyway. In addition, Blessed orbs are the least efficient means of getting stats. You get +10 int which is useless, so right off the bat you are paying for something you don't use. The +10 agi and str come at a bad price in one large lump sum that forfeits a lot of momentum (which is what Gemini plays off)
    Assuming you value agi and str the same how is my item build inefficient? You could go fewer wraith bands, they are just for momentum (which is what Gemini plays off). You only lose 217 or 218 gold (not sure which) when you sell one, and besides your build calls for going wraith bands which you eventually sell anyways.

    If you go icebrand and firebrand for a little more power in your non split form, why not get steamboots first? They have roughly the same gold per stats ratio as the ice and firebrand, are cheaper, easier to build, and give more movement speed. Otherwise massing blessed orbs is a better value for pure stats for your ult even if the int is pretty worthless.

    Blessed orbs have almost the same gold per stats ratio as +10 stat items, but don't fill up your inventory as quick, I don't see how you consider them "the least efficient means of getting stats." The ratio is also better than icebrands or firebrands.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by `Screw View Post
    Assuming you value agi and str the same how is my item build inefficient? You could go fewer wraith bands, they are just for momentum (which is what Gemini plays off). You only lose 217 or 218 gold (not sure which) when you sell one, and besides your build calls for going wraith bands which you eventually sell anyways.

    If you go icebrand and firebrand for a little more power in your non split form, why not get steamboots first? They have roughly the same gold per stats ratio as the ice and firebrand, are cheaper, easier to build, and give more movement speed. Otherwise massing blessed orbs is a better value for pure stats for your ult even if the int is pretty worthless.

    Blessed orbs have almost the same gold per stats ratio as +10 stat items, but don't fill up your inventory as quick, I don't see how you consider them "the least efficient means of getting stats." The ratio is also better than icebrands or firebrands.
    They also don't build into anything useful. FWS and Geo Bane are quite bad for stats and not great for Gemini himself either. Also, as I said you need to build them in 2100 gold chunks which is difficult. I incorporated boots much earlier into my build for the same reason as you give.

    Do not get tunnel visioned onto just the ult. Gemini is more than just his ult, so my new build incorporates relatively stat efficient items early on that progress to more carry related items for gemini.

    Frostburn serves as a very nice stats item that also synergizes very well with Gemini, solving his mobility issue and using his passive well. Sounds like the perfect item for him, eh?

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