[2.2.8] Engineer

[Anakha]

Just out of curiosity, why was Zeph swapped from Int to Agi?

Ask Fielding or Idejder.

[Jeffbelittle]

Then you say he needs int and int gain buffs, not a primary attribute swap. If you wave the same flag, don't take offense to being mistaken for the same people.

Fair enough. Thank you.

Back to what I think needs to actually be done->

I think everything about Engineer screams denial of area. So I'm pretty sure every buff or tweak he receives needs to keep that principle in mind, as that's what makes Engineer Engineer and that's what makes him special.

Here are some topics to talk about. I don't want ALL OF THESE IDEAS implemented, else he'd be Overpowered. I'm talking about differences in any one thing that could put him in a better spot. Test the waters. Maybe just make one of these changes.

Turret: Great area denial when it works. It does solid damage, it has a slow, it has a push back, it's right up Engineer's ally. The only downside of this ability is how small horizontally it fires. This makes it very very easy to screw up and or dodge. If you wanted to change turret: either make it easy to do by making it's horizontal wider, or make it more rewarding by causing greater push back.

Keg: Great area denial when it works. Pretty okay damage too. Rather long stun, good pushback, and I like how it has additional effects for Engineer. Again, difficult to pull off the way you want, but I really think Keg is in a good spot right now. If anything drop some mana cost off it.

Mines: I think mines are an okay idea, but I'm pretty tired of this "lay em and pray for em" business you see. Mines are incredibly taxing on Engineer's mana pool, have a long recharge making them not a very great (but still quazi useful) combat manuever, and require full points and time away from lane to be effective. If an engineer goes mines first, he generally is behind on levels.

I think if you rework this ability, your set. How S2 chooses to do that is up to them, I have some ideas but they'd sound radical. At any rate: it's this ability, that while is still technically denial of area, seems least synergistic with Engineer's playstyle elsewise.

His Ultimate is beautiful: wouldn't change a thing.

[[VGG]Glibber`]

Turret was toned down because it was a bit too strong, they changed the pushback and damage on it a while ago.


Engi is by no means a bad hero (especially when combined with heros like flux/temp/bomb etc), imo it's just the mines that are a bit off.

Oh, and his range.. why does he have 500 range still?

The best thing for this hero would be to up that, imho. Then see where it goes.
That way he could keep up a bit better with the other ranged autoattackers(harass)/stunners.

But I don't know really.. is he bad because he's not used that much? His ult/keg/turret combo can be really raping.

[[eR]Ekamo]

Just out of curiosity, why was Zeph swapped from Int to Agi?

Because he is a hero with pretty decent carry potential so him being AGI helps him with both doing more damage and more survivability with AGI items such as Firebrand, Wingbow etc.

[GregerMoek]

Does he ever pick up any of those items though?
Mostly I see Vestments(or upgrades)+Helm+Behe heart+Mock+Sol(or upgrade)+some kind of boots. Even FFP sometimes but I am not sure WIngbow's evade stacks with his own, I guess it would still be useful in case of unexpected initiation upon a zeph that hasn't attacked someone in a while but still.

Firebrand or Frostburn is decently common but not overly so.

[dandylion]

Primary attributes breed more of a stigma than anything.

Simpleton 1: HE'S A STRENGTH HERO SO HE MUST BE TONK!
Simpleton 2: HE'S AN INT HERO SO HE MUST BE SUPPORT!
Simpleton 3: HE's AN AGILITY HERO SO HE MUST BE CARRY!

Aside from generally coinciding with stat gains and occasionally hero role within the game, primary attributes are to a certain degree arbitrary.

If Engineer was switched to an int hero on Friday, you would still build the same items, you would still fulfill the same role as (in)adequately as you did before, and his mines would still be a fresh steaming heap of poo.

[[VGG]Glibber`]

They could've just as well made zeph str since he carries through tanking for most part. But way back he had a leap and was different.

And no, main stat = not the same as role.

[[LsE]Hsssh]

Str would give him too big synergy with heart.

Does he ever pick up any of those items though?
Mostly I see Vestments(or upgrades)+Helm+Behe heart+Mock+Sol(or upgrade)+some kind of boots. Even FFP sometimes but I am not sure WIngbow's evade stacks with his own, I guess it would still be useful in case of unexpected initiation upon a zeph that hasn't attacked someone in a while but still.

I doubt that person who designed Zephyr thought "this hero will pick hotbl, vestments and rofl thru enemy team".

[GregerMoek]

Must have thought something about how awesome "tanky" items are on a hero like him though?

[[LsE]Hsssh]

Maybe, probably. But back then lots of people still thought that HotBL is worst item in the game and IIRC items like frostburn were usually picked up on him.

edit: i lol'd at leaked patch notes for Engineer.

[[VGG]Glibber`]

I doubt that person who designed Zephyr thought "this hero will pick hotbl, vestments and rofl thru enemy team".

Can't help but think *the same guy that thought "hey let's give this guy a turret that scales and procs with/like his items"*



Anyway engi not bad, just ra zeph monarch midas etc too stronk. Let's see what the balance changes bring.

[ShenziLaRue]

I think engi is pretty decent atm i would like keg to give vision tough

His ulti should also deal superior magic damage considering the damage over time effect is a tad low when u actually get to the point where teamfights are top priority.

Just throwing out there that Flux and Engi is the most lol combo i have seen xD Its like a vindi ult with damage if you get everyone in the electric fence