Yes, of course griefers should be punished even if a game is remade!
No, I don't believe in this solution, I have a better idea:
No (I am a griefer )
The point of this thread is to point out a rather obvious flaw in the system.
I love the remake option - but there should be a way of banning offenders from remade games. As it is now - opponents won't agree to remake because:
A) they had done the same thing to them before, and they want 'revenge'. (Stupid notion, but some people believe in this type of 'justice')
B) You cannot punish him for it if the game is remade. (If you believe in the non-transparent RAP system, anyway)
C) Free win. For some players this is rewarding.
So even if the game is a complete waste of time after that point - you're stuck in a dilemma of a few choices:
1. Be stuck in a very unentertaining game for AT LEAST 15 minutes. 15 mins will be the first time you can concede - but the griefer probably won't let you - so you'll have to wait until they destroy your shrine. Or they can choose to farm your fountain. Either way you're up for a fun-filled 15-30 minutes!
2. Leave, get leave %. Not a good option unless you have plenty of matches played. Works for me on my Legacy account - it happens rarely enough for me to never get a valid leave %. But on my non-legacy account just a few leaves is a lot.
3. Remake (dependable upon opponent goodwill, won't get the offender punished.)
TL;DR, suggestion is as follows:
Record the Match-ID of remade games - but only track leave % and make players RAP-able. All to make sure griefers get punished even if a game is remade. It would also raise the incentive for everyone involved to remake ruined games.
Also, if someone DC's, perhaps you should consider raising the remake-option time-limit to allow for the leaver timer to run out before the remake, to make sure he gets the leave. Or initiate a remake vote as soon as he's eliminated. (Side-suggestion)
I know this suggestion has most likely been made before - it baffles me that you haven't done something about it before. It's a fundamental flaw that should annoy pretty much everyone that plays the game when they happen to meet a griefer.
Last edited by ToxicMonkey; 10-22-2011 at 09:19 AM.
with this suggestion you still haven't solved the 15 min concede games caused by leavers. Or stomps by a 5 man team vs 1,2,3 or 4 player under the 15 minutes. It's also possible that players just leave because they don't want to die so much, what would become of those games as the people who are winning did nothing wrong.
Though I agree that some flaws should get removed out of the system, it's hard to think of a good to remove free-win games as you'll have to explain to the system what it looks like AND people won't like it if their game is considered a free-win though it wasn't one because a flaw in the scripting.
(Making a complete flawless system is impossible, don't get me wrong I hate those games as well and I've had plenty of them)
(Just saw there is a solution on in the popular division, it isn't 100% either tho)
Last edited by Dorki; 10-22-2011 at 10:26 AM.
Well, the thing is, with this suggestion I'm not trying to solve the issue of those games being recorded as valid games etc.
I pretty much see it as inevitable that you will get free-wins and automatic losses due to different reasons such as: Disconnects, griefers, feeders, bad picks, other reasons. A way to remake games automatically due to for example a leaver will leave it open for exploitation (trading leaves for eliminated stats for a particular game, for example. An uneven trade, but making it possible will make it occasionally happen.), or otherwise bugging the system. It seems a difficult task. The popular suggestion seems too complicated for my tastes, and not quite feasible. But that's not the point of this thread.
Anyway - my only suggestion is to eliminate one of the incentives for people not to want to remake a ruined/griefed game, which is:
By remaking you are effectively giving the offender a free pass, since he won't be punished. Also leavers, since if remade, the leaver won't get his leave %. Some people take their chances by leaving early - sometimes then reconnecting at the last second if not remade - then going AFK. Or just accepting the leave.
Allowing remade games to be recorded (without stats), will give them their leave as well as being RAP-able.
So what if someone gets a blue screen or his HoN client crashes, and they instantly remake for whatever reason (bad heroes in both teams). The person that got disconnected will get a leaver-% which he normally wouldn't?
The leaver system will punish everyone equally. There really is no way of finding out whether someone did a leave on purpose or by accident.
Note: It will only punish leavers if they are 'terminated', meaning they did not return within the 5 minutes allotted to them.
Well, there still is a difference between timing out and disconnecting. You can see from here if you want to ban them or not. If they abandoned your team I can understand you want to report them. And yes, I fully support adding leaver status to people who caused your game to be remade.
But for them to be able to see the replay, the game must first be registered for this to happen, even when the game gets remade.
There are a lot of "abuse types" you can report, griefing being one of them btw (just looked it up in HoN). Adding the type: "leaver" would solve the problem of leavers, if the game gets registered even when remade.
I hope this reply will help ;-)
Last edited by Dorki; 10-23-2011 at 10:07 AM.
I guess that would be the best. Recording remade games however takes up database memory D: (iirc).
Well it should be longer than a week, I'm used to research some of my played matches to record certain things I forgot. But removing replays after a while sounds good enough to me.