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Guide current as of Patch Version 2.1.0
- Hero Introduction
- Skills & Skill Build
- Items & Item Build
- Strategy
- Hero Matchings and Matchups
- Conclusion
Succubus is a port of the DotA Hero; Bane Elemental. Succubus has seen high level play in HoN since her induction into the game; although has tapered off somewhat in popularity. She is a strong hero during all aspects of the game, and one of a select few heroes in the game that can evolve from one role into another without any deviation in her item/skill build. The aim of this guide is to give both direction to people that may be new to the hero, and food for thought and helpful advice for higher level players.
Pro's:
- Versatile hero with several disables, capable of a lot of control during team fights.
- Very high average stat gain compared to other intelligence heroes.
- Very high starting armor for an intelligence hero (only behind Tempest, Blacksmith and Doctor Repulsor). Making her great for harassment.
- Above average Movespeed.
- Almost unmatched solo hero with great rune control capabilities.
- Superb attack animation and base high damage.
- Not reliant on items.
- Able to stay in a lane without having to leave it often.
- Very strong ganking hero.
- Good escape and defense mechanisms.
Con's:
- Limited Mana Pool compared to other intelligence heroes.
- Only 500 Range Attack (Most Intelligence heroes being 550-600).
- In conjunction with having a low Mana Pool, is also quite mana dependent.
- As the main disabler of a team, is often shut down and targeted during team fights.
- Ultimate requires channeling.
- Often an inferior choice for solo exp as she doesn't scale very effectively.
Smitten
Smitten; aka The Carry Disabler, is your way to shutdown high physical damage units (Example: Pupper Master, Maliken, Flint Beastwood etc.) at level 4 it equates to a massive 120% reduction in damage base damage (damage derived from overall attributes). This will effectively neuter the damage output of the target it is on. It's duration of 20 seconds, and cooldown of 15, means it can overlap and be applied to more than one target at a time (or to refresh on a single target making sure it never drops off). Smitten's manacost prevents it from being spammable, as it will use a decent portion of your mana, but is usually applied as soon as the fight is initiated, to take down their physical carries effectiveness as soon as possible. The range is also huge at 1,000, meaning that almost any unit that you can see, you can hit.
Heartache
Range:
Heartache; aka The Lane Dominater, is your damaging skill and your way to make sure you never have to leave the lane you're in. It has a hefty mana cost, so it hard to use it as a nuke, and is far from spammable (although with Blood Chalice, it is much more so). The biggest perk about this spell is that it deals True Damage, this means the damage taken from this spell is not mitigated by Armor or Magic Armor, so there is no way to reduce the damage taken from it. This makes it especially potent early on, as it will take a HUGE chunk of their hitpoints, and heal you by the same amount, allowing you to keep yourself in a lane without being reliant on Runes of Blight or Pots. Also something of note, is the range is quite large, and quite a lot further than your attack, so even if someone is out of your attack range, you can still nail them.
Mesmerize
Range:
Mesmerize; aka The Multitasker, is your main way of shutting the opposing team down, while also setting up kills and your main escape mechanism (you can also deny yourself with it too!). This skill has a vast variety of applications throughout the entire duration of the game. From the very start it is often used to initiate ganks; locking down your target long enough for your team mates to position themselves, taking a disabler out of the equation, or chasing down a hero that thinks he's gotten away. As the game goes on, this is your main way of shutting down the devastating heroes in your opponents lineups (Example; Behemoth, Bubbles, Magmus) long enough for your team to go to work on the rest of them. As mentioned before, this spell can also be used to deny experience from your opponents; at level 4 this will deal 20 True Damage every second for 7 seconds, meaning you can kill yourself with it at 140hp or less (this is both a blessing, and something to be aware of).
Succubus' Hold
Range:
Succubus' Hold; aka "WHY DOES SHE KEEP TARGETING ME?", is what makes Succubus what she is. This ultimate is absolutely devastating and again scales throughout the game in use. Early on this will net you a kill on virtually any target you choose, basically any partially weakened opponent will fall to Succubus' Hold + Heartache. Later on this ability is used to set up team kills, often taking advantage of any enemy hero that even slightly mispositions themselves. Whoever your team feels is the most threatening and uncontrollable threat on their side, that is what your main target should be. As it is a channeling spell, you must use it carefully and precisely and try and get it's full duration off, there is no point diving into team fights and using this on the person you feel like killing, as you will get stunned and disabled to death and you will have wasted it completely. There is absolutely nothing a hero can do while in the grip of this spell, and it must be taken advantage of.
:StaffOfTheMaster: Staff of the Master :StaffOfTheMaster:
Unfortunately for Succubus all the Staff of the Master does for Succubus' Hold is increase the damage per tick. While it may seem like something worth getting (and I see this a LOT with people that aren't experienced with this hero). I urge you; DO NOT GET STAFF OF THE MASTER ON SUCCUBUS, EVER (Ever ever ever). Damage is not what this spell is about, and getting this item is actually completely counter-intuitive as the only time when it's damage aspect is particularly relevant is laning at the start of the game, at the point in the game when you have actually obtained the staff, the disable is what is relevant, allowing your team to get the kills, not you, thus making the staff obsolete. There is never a situation where another item is not a better choice.
The great thing about Succubus is her ability to adapt and evolve throughout the duration of the game. Your skill build (and item build) will change based on your opponents, which makes her a relevant threat against virtually any lineup. Smitten is a skill that can be omitted entirely from a build, based on how relevant the ability to shut down a physical carry is against the team you're fighting.
Standard Build (Knowing they have a Physical Carry):
1. Mesmerize
2. Heartache
3. Heartache
4. Stats
5. Heartache
6. Succubus' Hold
7. Heartache
8. Stats
9. Stats
10. Stats
11. Succubus' Hold
12-15. Smitten
16. Succubus' Hold
17-19. Mesmerize
20+. Stats
Mesmerize is taken at level 1 because you need the skill in your arsenal throughout the game and it can be great to use in pre-creepspawn ganks as it will give your team a chance to get into position around an enemy hero. Also, Heartache costs so much, and does such little damage at rank 1, that it is virtually never worth using at that stage. Heartache is then taken at every available level, as it is your main way to stay in your lane and deal damage to your opponent. Your ultimate is also taken at every available level. Smitten is not taken till the 12-15 range (although can be taken slightly earlier if their carries are outleveling you), because it's not until later on that Physical Carries become relevant, and shutting them down becomes important (also because it is a % based reduction, the skill does a lot more later on, because it is reducing a much greater amount).
Because Mesmerize is not really being used to shut down at this point, it is more important (and even preferential) to have it at Rank 1 (4 Seconds) at this stage in the game, so maxing it out is often not a priority (Also 1 extra second is not really worth giving up +2 Strength, +2 Agility and +2 Intelligence at this point in the game). It is maxed out later when it reaches the point where you want the target locked out for absolutely as long as possible.
As mentioned before, your skill build can vary as much as necessary. Smitten can be skipped entirely, Mesmerize can be maxed out sooner if you need some serious disables in the team, etc.
Starting Items:
Runes of Blight x 1 - 90 Gold
Mana Potion x2 - 100 Gold
Crushing Claws x1 - 150 Gold
Mark of the Novice x1 - 150 Gold
Minor Totem x2 - 106 Gold
----------------------
Total Cost - 596 Gold
This item build starts you off with 587hp and 299mana. In my opinion this is the optimal way to start off with Succubus. Succubus's ability to stay in a lane is determined by wise use of Heartache. I generally use 1 Mana Potion either after Level 3 or after Level 5, depending on how well I am harassing my opponents, and then leave the second mana potion right before you hit Level 6, to ensure that you can dive straight into Hold+Heartache combo and go for a kill. Runes of Blight are in there because harassment between Heartache is inevitable from any reasonable opponent, and you don't want to be solely relying on Heartache to keep you up. Crushing Claws and Mark of the Novice are there for stats and for the inevitable Blood Chalice you will be building. And last but not least, Minor Totems are there for obvious stat gain (and a prelude to Power Supply), and to use up (and therefore make the best of) your starting gold.
Bottle
Start of the game:
This item is simply not worth it at this stage in the game. If you begin the game with bottle (which I wouldn't recommend for virtually any hero, especially with the removal of the 0:00 rune) or even with the intention of just buying a few consumables and/or a monkey with the intention of running a quick bottle down, you will be giving up very valuable stats, sacrificing your last hitting abilities, and your overall abilities to stay in the lane. Rune rushing at this point is not really in your best interests, as Succubus doesn't really have the tools for early kills by herself (unless your opponents play badly), as the combination of a long CD Nuke, and a 4sec Disable aren't really enough to get a kill on anyone. Given this; even aggressively runewhoring, none of the runes are really going to allow you to do anything particularly devastating. In the first 5 levels especially, you do not want to be playing overly aggressively, the most aggressive thing you want to be doing is harassing your opponent and trying to prevent his participation in the lane through good positioning and autoattacks. If your opponent is the type of hero trying to utilize rune control, simply use Mesmerize to prevent him from getting to the runes ahead of you, you don't need a bottle to do this. In summary; at this stage of the game, stats and just general regenerative consumables are vital, and bottle is simply not worth it this early for a hero like Succubus (also not to mention Chalice is a bigger priority at this point).
Early game:
As you get past level 6, the use of Bottle becomes a lot more relevent. Using runes will help you really abuse your role as a ganker, Invisibility and Haste are your two most devastating runes; both used to setup the perfectly positioned lethal gank, but Illusion (spawn Illusions to attack them while the real you is holding them in place) and Regeneration (helping renew your limited mana pool) are also very strong. After Marchers, Chalice and TP's I tend to get a bottle, to allow Succubus a lot of ganking freedom. Another useful trick in tight fights when you and your opponent are both low on HP, is to Mesmerize them, take a few swigs from your bottle, and by the time the sleep wears off, you have your mana and hp back, and the've lost hp from the sleep, often giving you the advantage you need to turn a possible death into a kill. Abusing Bottle to gank early on can give you huge advantages and should rarely be passed up.
How early or late you take this item depends entirely how you're farming/what stage the game is at, and the role your team needs you to play. Bottle is not a 100% must have, but I have found in a large majority of games, it is an item worth buying. As in general for a lot of Succubus items, your build is adaptable, Bottle is another one of those items. Assess what you need, and be aware of the option of playing with it.
Blood Chalice
Blood Chalice, mostly based off the item Soul Ring from DotA, is an incredibly potent item on Succubus. This is an item you should finish as soon as possible during your laning phase (not too difficult, as all you need to complete it from your starting items is a 325g Scarab). It allows you to use Heartache much more frequently, and the life you lose from the Chalice activation, is more than made up by Heartaches life gain, so it becomes much more spammable. On a hero where mana and a somewhat limited mana pool are very relevant (especially early game) this item is a godsend, and should be bought 99% of games.
Early Game Items:
Early game you want to just be generally fleshing out your original items. Start looking to turn the Minor Totems into a Power Supply because Power Supply is always an item worth having (can be picked up earlier or later based on the presence of spell spamers i.e Armadon, Chipper etc.). You turn your Novice and Crushing Claw into a Blood Chalice, because this item is spectacular on Succubus. You also want to be picking up your Striders or Ghost Marchers reasonably early, to get your gank on. You want to be grabbing Homecoming Stones because they're essential for every purpose; defending opponents tower dives, tower defenses, retreating, quick lane swapping, ganks, avoiding skills like Rupture and Arachna's Ult, you name it, Homecoming Stone can do it.
Striders; These give Succubus the freedom to move between lanes to gank, to runes for your bottle, and general overall map mobility. They cost very little which lets you focus on your other core items, and provide nothing that Succubus doesn't need (which a lot of other boots do). Overall they are in my opinion the second best boots available for Succubus (they were the best pre-nerf, but since then, Ghost Marchers have crept back to the number 1 spot)
Ghost Marchers; the damage aspect isn't overly relevant to her (although depending on how long your laning period lasts, and how well you farm early, getting the Punch Dagger's can help out a lot with last hitting). Ghost Marchers certainly are a great option on Succubus due to how well the speed boost synergises with the playstyle of Succubus. Early on in the game she is a ganker, her role is to get into a perfect position, get off Succubus' Hold, and allow her team to score some quick kills. Ghost Marchers allow for setting up said positioning, whether it be via catching up to an opponent to get off a Mesmerize to hold them in place, getting that extra bit of range to pull off that last Heartache to seal the deal, or quickly getting the jump on someone to pull off a good Succubus' Hold. This item adds to the element of 'surprise' of a Succubus gank, you can get into position from the trees or TP gank very effectively with this item.
Plated Greaves; are ~okay~. The movespeed is on par with Ghost Marchers (without the speed boost for positioning), you get slight stats, and you get some reasonable armor, but overall this item doesn't do a whole lot for you. On the whole it's too defensive for an offensive ganker like Succubus, and doesn't really offer you that much, not really recommended at all.
Steamboots; with the change to line HoN Steamboots up with the DotA ones, this item has become a lot less useful Succubus. The movespeed is down, meaning it's harder to get your positioning right, the stats are down, meaning the survivability option suddenly isn't so survivable anymore, and the addition of attack speed, which was the least attractive aspect of old Ghost Marchers for Succubus. Overall it's not as strong as it used to be, they are still good, but the alternatives are better.
Boots of Travel; are ~generally~ speaking too slow to farm, and while they certainly give Succubus a lot of ganking freedom, and the sudden movespeed boost and ability to teleport to the middle of nowhere is fantastic. I find that Succubus a) Isn't that farm dependant, so jumping around to farmable lanes isn't particularly useful, and b) Has no fast farming mechanism, so being able to jump from farm to farm isn't that easy. You'll generally find that the gold is more productive to spend in other areas, and this item is more often than not, not the best choice unless you are getting a really amazing farm and/or a lot of hero kills.
Mid-Late Game Items:
Most of the time, going into midgame, this is how you want your inventory to be looking, recommended to go with either Puzzlebox or Portal Key as your first major item, depending on your game situation:
or
Now here is where Succubus really shines. She has many options here for how to build her for midgame onwards, all tailored to your opponents team and playstyle. Main items for Succubus:
Portal Key
2,150 Gold.
Going back to the point made during the boots discussion, positioning is absolutely essential on a hero like Succubus. Portal Key does several things for you;
1. Gives you a strong initiating tool, allowing you to get into a safe position from which to control fights to the best of your ability.
2. Allows you to catch escaping heroes and get off that Mesmerize/Heartache needed to finish them off.
3. Coupled with Mesmerize, gives you a really strong escape mechanism, being able to sleep and blink away gets you out of many potentially difficult situations.
Portal Key is certainly a very potent tool, and is very well suited for gank-heavy strategies (which Succubus is very viable for). This item is relatively cheap, effective, and really gives you the mobility and the ability to jump on enemies unexpectedly, high priority item.
Puzzlebox
This item is extremely strong on this hero and synergises extremely well with Succubus's playstyle, and can provide a lot of strong plays, especially those very familiar with micromanagement. At level 3 Puzzlebox provides:
Passive:
- +14 Strength
- +24 Intelligence
Activeateable:
Minions with
- Mana Burning attack
- Explosion on Death
- True Sight (1,000 Range Invisibility Detection [Only at level 3])
- Mana Burn activatable ability
- Haste Aura (Movement and IAS increase)
As you can see, this is not an item to be trifled with. The combo of Mesmerize + Bust Out Minions + Succubus' Hold + Mana Burn + Attacks while target is held, is enough to bring down virtually any foe. While the use of this item is more prominent in ganks and solo work early game, as it gets later on, the haste aura and true sight help your team immensely, also making it a fantastic counter to stealth heroes. At level 3 you can use this item to Counter-Ward also, making it incredibly versatile.
This item has has undergone a lot of changes since it was first introduced, as it stands now, it is an incredibly powerful item, and fantastic to help your team push with, the cost is quite low compared to most major items, putting it quite within your reach for a low farm character.
Tablet of Command
This item (as with many intellect support/gankers) is a fantastic tool to have on you. The uses of this single item are too many to mention, but one of the best situations to pick this up is against heroes that can silence you or can make themselves immune to your CC (Blood Hunter, Predator, Jeraziah to name a few) that will all jump onto you and give you no real option to get away, being able to push yourself over ledges and other terrain is insanely helpful, not to mention the ability to do it to your allies as well. It also provides you with great early stats and a nice intelligence boost to fix your smallish mana pool, definately a tool to be aware of.
Kuldra's Sheepstick
This item is also very strong, however slow to farm, if you don't have the gold available to you, or you're the main support hero (read: main warder) for your team, this item is often a bit too expensive to shoot for. Kuldra's Sheepstick does several things for you:
- Large Intelligence Boost, solving the low Mana Pool problem
- Has a nice Strength Boost, giving you some extra survivability in team fights.
- Gives your the Mana Regeneration to use your abilities more aggressively, and really let you take control of fights, without having to manage your mana pool quite so much.
- And most importantly; gives you yet another (very powerful) disable to aid your team.
This is still an incredibly potent item and will really let Succubus come into her own. The items involved in the recipe are also very beneficial, Manatube > Blessed Orb > Acolyte's Staff, give you the things, in order, to cover a lot of Succubus's flaws, and give you a nice steady progression over the course of the game. If you are having a very good farm, or are in desperate need of another disable, this item is worth going for.
Shrunken Head
Shrunken Head is for those matches where you realize you're just not going to be getting any casts off. You're the first target every fight, you're hit with an array of stuns, you just generally can't find the time to contribute anything useful before you're gunned down. Succubus relies on her ability to control the flow of a team fight, who gets to fight, who can use their abilities at what times, and who is taken out of the fight entirely. Without the ability to do this, Succubus loses a lot of her potency. Shrunken Head provides you with a window after the initiation of a team fight to:
- Get off your initial casts; Smitten and Mesmerize
- Channel Succubus's Hold without interruption
- Take the attention away from yourself, and hopefully onto a hero that can take more hits than you can (how 'hopeful' this is, depends entirely upon how well you set up your disables on the opposing team).
This is a very useful item for Succubus, and generally a goal in most games with a balanced opposing team (whether it comes before or after your Puzzlebox is a choice you make based on how vulnerable you feel to the opposing lineup).
Luxury Items:
Generally you won't have the excess gold to really worry about luxury items on this hero, however if you're having a really successful game and are looking for options to further flesh out your inventory, these are some options for you:
Hellflower
This is a particularly devastating item, and can be a powerful addition to your arsenal. Best picked up in conjunction with Portal Key, it gives you the ability to dive onto your enemy carry (particularly effective if they have a shrunken head or other type of activatable magic immunity) and lock them down utterly before they can even react. One of the biggest things about Hellflower is it simply does not matter how farmed a hero gets, getting the jump on him with a quick Hellflower activation will make them fall extremely quickly. Not to mention it will do wonders for your mana regeneration, giving you the ability to spam your spells much more freely, it will also make your autoattacks something to be addressed by your opponents. Definitely be aware of this tool later on in the game.
Frostfield Plate
This item is recommended when your opponents have a lot of autoattacking power on their team, the -25 attack speed aura is more effective in team fights than most people give it credit for, and can cut down your opponents damage potential quite substantially. Also, it gives adds something to your repertoire that you can't previously contribute; an AoE presence, allowing you to damage and snare groups of your opponents. This is a very handy item in the right situation, but should only be gotten later on in the game.
Sacrificial Stone
I chose to include this here, because although it is certainly a useful item for Succubus, I would advise to avoid it in a core build. The stats on it are certainly very relevant to Succubus, in that the mana regeneration and additional hp and mana help cover up her flaws, but overall, the expense and lack of utility of this item, leave better choices to be taken. However in the clinching moments of a match, extra charges on this make for quick recoveries, and the on-death bonus helps a lot during team fights. Certainly not an item to be overlooked, but not worth rushing for.
Null Stone
Yet another item to help with general survivability. This is for those matches where getting Shrunken Head wasn't a worthwhile investment, but there are still some targeted stuns/ministun nukes that can interrupt your channeling, and make your life difficult. Nullstone's spell block helps protect you during your ultimate, and gives you the additional stats to make it hard to focus fire you.
As with all heroes, this is not the be-all end-all of lists, but generally the items you will use/aim for in 90% of games. It all comes down to the situation and who you are up against. I specifically left out an order in which to obtain these items, as it varies a lot from situation to situation. As mentioned previously, Succubus' strength is in her versatility and adaptability, you are only limited by your ability to assess what is needed.
Wards:
As mentioned earlier, Succubus is a hero that is defined largely by her abilities and spells, not by her items. Her scalability with items is not nearly as large as other heroes, and as with other heroes of this type (Myrmidon, Andromeda, etc.) this makes you the perfect hero for...you guessed it; Wards!
Warding and Counter-Warding is essential in any game of HoN you will ever play, information is everything, and your team will love you for it. There are many warding guides out there, so I won't go into specifics, but be aware that Succubus is great for this role, and don't shy away from getting eyes out there.
Last edited by Dyzfunkshun; 08-02-2011 at 08:40 AM.
Early Game:
Which Lane To Go:
As Succubus, your heavy preference is to solo mid, with your ability to last hit and stay in your lane, you will have an easy time against almost any hero in the game. However don't let this limit you, Succubus can do okay in dual-lanes as well, setting up kills with Mesmerize (either on their stunner/disabler) or using it to get into position to take down an opponent with the aid of a team mate. If you have a hero that will really benefit from a solo lane, don't feel like you need to solo to reach your potential, politely slip into a lane with a team mate that you can do well with. While you are a really really powerful mid hero, other heroes will scale better than you will by going mid, and denying them that opportunity will often hinder your team more than help it.
Laning Solo Mid:
Your job here is easy, just sit and farm and last hit. You do not need to rush into kills. Succubus has a fantastic attack animation and very strong base damage, allowing you to sit back in a lane and just pick off creeps.
What's your opponent doing?
This is something you need to assess right away. Is it a Thunderbringer with a Bottle looking to harass the hell out of you? Is it a more passive Soulstealer who's just looking to outfarm and outlevel you? Is it a runewhoring Pebbles that wants to do everything in his power to end your life?
You need to find out the answer to these questions as early as possible and react accordingly. If you're against someone who you know is going to abuse runes to dominate you in a lane, get an ally (or use a courier) to run you down some Observer wards and simply abuse mesmerize get to his runes first before he can make use of them.
If you are facing someone who is not interested in harassing you heavily, and just wants to farm, that's fine, do likewise. Against nearly all heroes, you will gain a huge advantage on them as soon as you hit Level 6. Make sure to use Heartache occasionally after level's 3 and level 5, to stop them sitting on full hp, and then use that momentum to your advantage, and look for an opportunity to score a kill. Against players that don't do much in a lane, it's very easy to stockpile up your mana, and use everything in your arsenal on them as soon as you hit level 6.
Also be very aware of your positioning in the lane. Succubus really excels against melee mids, as can just plant herself behind the creep wave (on the opposing side), if the opposing hero wants to try and fight you, great, just exchange autoattacks and then heartache them in the face, there is almost no hero that can trade hits with you because of this. If they aren't willing to trade hits with you, then just sit and get every single last hit, and outlevel them completely. After level 3 it becomes really easy to do this, also works against low-threat range heroes who can't really do much to you either (although it can be a bit harder in some situations, because a lot of heroes will outrange you). But just be aware you are in a position with your skills to prevent the opposing heroes from getting even a single creep kill, it's good fun.
Laning in a Dual Lane:
Your best friends here are heroes that require positioning to really abuse their damage abilities:
Pebbles
Soulstealer
Valkyrie
Behemoth
These are just examples of a few heroes that will greatly appreciate a 4 second window in order to setup a great place to abuse their abilities. Use Mesmerize offensively, even when not looking to score a kill, make their laning life a living hell.
I've hit Level 6, what now?
Early on with Succubus, you are a ganker, that is your role. Be aware of both your team and your opponents team, and where they are at all times. Succubus can turn a potentially overwhelming fight in favor of your team with careful use of her abilities. See which lanes need the most help, and use Homecoming Stone's and move around behind the trees to setup kills.
This is one of the best aspects of Succubus Ganking, you can Hold them, and they won't even know it's coming;
Example:
Here in this picture, Sand Wraith thinks he's just sitting back having a nice farm, with my ally Pebbles too low HP to be able to really do anything to him. I teleport down to my bottom tower and run behind the trees, and sit and wait. The Sand Wraith gets himself into a vulnerable position and I start to hold him from the shadows. I have then set my Pebbles up for a great Stun/Toss combo to completely destroy Sand Wraith.
Something to always bare in mind, is that while Succubus is capable of some devastating solo kills on Low HP opponents, she really shines setting up her teammates for kills. As already gone over, Succubus doesn't rely on her items as much as other heroes, meaning you are in a great position to setup kills for team mates to get them hero kill gold. Ways you can abuse this is to Heartache BEFORE you Hold (if the situation permits) to get them even lower straight off the bat, to setup a team mate to get an easy quick kill. A well played Succubus should end games with her assists through the roof.
Use the early game to roam around the map from lane to lane using combination's of Mesmerize/Heartache/Succubus' Hold to set your team mates up for kills, helping your whole team farm up and reach the next phase of the game.
It's Mid-Endgame, team-push time!
At this stage you should have finished your early game build and be on your way to your Puzzlebox or Shrunken Head. You're now reaching the phase of the game where your role in fights has evolved from ganker to disabler. Your role here is to assess who can stun/disable on their team, and stop them from doing their job.
Example:
Here in this (rather unrealistically staged) fight, I've seen my opponents and decided that Magmus is quite clearly the hero here that's going to do the most damage, so I've Mesmerized him and taken him out of the fight. I've then realized that Pyromancer has a huge AoE stun and massive damage output, but is relatively easily killed. So I've turned my grip to him in the hopes that my team will now press forward, take out the Pyromancer and with that momentum will be able to clean up the rest of their team.
An important note to be aware of with Succubus, as is the case with a lot of casters, the longer the game goes on, the less potent you become. Your spells will be doing less damage by comparison, and the damage aspect (especially Heartache) of your game become a lot less relevant. Due to this, you need to be aware that the most valuable aspect of your game is locking your opponents out of fights. While I have outlined the control of sleeping one devastating hero, and holding (and setting up a kill) on an equally devastating and perhaps more vulnerable hero, be aware that another option is being able to chain Sleep into Hold. This is a tactic that is viable when your opponent has just 1 hero (one that can be quite tricky to take down) that will wreck your team if he gets active. Examples of such a hero are Behemoth and Magmus. Many teams often rely on a Portal Key abusing devastating hero to really turn the tide of a large team fight; you are in a unique position here to be able to chain a 7 second sleep into a 5 second hold, effectively eliminating their damage potential, even if this doesn't directly kill them, their ability to impact the fight will be gone, as often their team mates will have died, letting your allies prepare and combat them when it's over. So make sure you are aware of your disabling option, and understanding the capabilities you possess to alter the outcome of large team battles.
Using Smitten:
Another relevant late game tool to be aware of how to use correctly is Smitten:
Smitten
Level 4
-120% Base Damage applied to target for 20 seconds.
Now given that, let's compare this to a skill from The Dark Lady
Dark Blades
Level 4
Duration 6 seconds.
80% Base Damage
Attacks silence target for 2.5 seconds
I show you this to put in perspective just how devastating this ability can be. When under the effect of Dark Blades, Dark Lady's damage output is MASSIVE, she can entirely annihilate heroes and entire creep waves with ease. Now look at the other side of the rainbow, a carry such as The Dark Lady, instead of having an +80% damage BUFF, is instead carrying around a -120% damage DEBUFF. This is a huge huge swing in damage output. And not just that, without a dispeller on their team, it will be sitting on that hero for a massive 20 seconds. The ability to identify a hero in the opponent line up that will be crippled by Smitten is essential to winning fights. If you can recognize early the need to spec into it during a match, and make sure you have it in your arsenal at the appropriate time you can really hinder your opponents entire team.
A selection of heroes that really rely on their base damage output:
The Dark Lady
The Madman
Arachna
Puppet Master
Hammerstorm
Maliken
Pestilence
Pandamonium
Flint Beastwood
Night Hound
This is not the be-all end-all of heroes that Smitten is effective against, but just so you get the idea of the kind of threats that it can be utilized against. Essentially it's any hero that can cut you up just by right clicking on you. If you see a hero like this on the other side that has had a relatively good game (has got a few kills, has farmed well, has not been kept under control) then you need to get points into this talent. Applying this on a hero at the very start of a team fight is crucial, and then being aware of the 20second duration (and 15second cooldown) so you can reapply it when necessary. Just another very powerful skill in a jam packed lineup.
Preface: All lists include the highlighted heroes, but are not exclusively limited, these examples are provided to give you an outline of Succubus' strengths and weakness in relation to other heroes, to provide you with a more informed opinion.
Good Laning Buddies:
Positional Requirement Heroes:
In this category (as outlined earlier in the guide) you are in a great way to abuse heroes that require setting up a key position to really abuse their abilities. Your ability to Mesmerize an opponent from quite a long range (650 range, much longer than your auto attack) means you can setup a great opportunity for a Pebbles to walk right up for Toss+Stun, lock a hero in place so Valkyrie can throw a perfect arrow and follow up on it, or pin down a hero while Behemoth walks into that blissful spot that entire blocks off any kind of escape, so you can beat on them. There are several other heroes that abuse positional requirements, be aware of who they are, and be aware of your synergy with them.
Heroes that need Babysitting:
In this catagoy you have heroes that need a helping hand at the start of the game. You have several huge plus's in your arsenal that makes these lanes very powerful. First and foremost you need to be aware that these heroes are weak and especially vulnerable in the early game, and are very succeptable to powerful opposing lanes (Pyro+Hammerstorm, other dual-stun lanes etc.) you are able to defend these heroes with your sleep, if your opponents are really trying to kill your squishy team mates, you are there to help them and save their asses. Secondly, you have an amazing attack animation as previously discussed, meaning you are able to not only harass your opponents very successfully, you are able to sit and deny experience from their lane, while letting the carry farm to his hearts content, getting last hits and getting that essential gold. You also pair up well with these heroes offensive capabilities, using sleeps offensively, paired with the leap and bash of Chronos and dagger of Sand Wraith, or the Silence and Charge of Dark Lady's, not only are you strong on defense, you can make the strong offensive plays if the opportunities present themselves.
IF you're not soloing, these are the two types of lanes that you will truly excel in, often when not asked to solo, you're put into a babysitting lane. It's not often you see Succubus put into a super offensive lane, as she doesn't really do too much until she gets her ult, in which case she becomes much more of a roaming ganker, so lane composition isn't nearly as important.
Hard Lane Heroes:
Heroes that can silence you:
One of the big weakness's of Succubus is heroes that can silence you and render your spells useless. While this is true of any caster, Succubus has 4 active abilities, and is rendered stone-cold-useless when she cannot cast, especially if nailed with a silence at a crucial time (when they know you're about to Heartache, or Mesmerize them) they can make things very painful for you if they can predict your actions. You need to play very defensively against these foes, and realise and respect their potential to put you in very sticky situations, and react accordingly. The Dark Lady is especially brutal in this situation because she also falls into another weakness of Succubus covered shortly; heroes with High Mobility, in that not only can she silence, she can get up close and personal with you very quickly.
Heavy Duty Nukers:
These guys are not faces you like to see, and they all have...evil eyes. The biggest problems with these guys, is not only do they nuke hard, it's that they nuke often. They have both the mana and the cheap spells to support hitting you where it hurts, and doing it a lot. The problem with Succubus is that while she has great potential to stay in a lane, she cannot afford to Heartache too often. These guys will be pounding you more than you can Heartache, and that's not what you want to see. You need to play patiently against these heroes, you cannot afford to harass them much, because participation in the lane against them, is going to lead to Thunder/Fire/Acid right to the face. When solo'ing you need to abuse Line of Sight, stay above your ramp, he can't hit you if he can't see you, right click on them to draw his creeps to your desired location, and sit back in safety, use your mana potions to Heartache after levels 3 and 5, and then at level 6 go for a potential kill. All these heroes are their strongest if you let them get ontop of you, if you play safe throughout the early stages of the game, even if you let them farm (these guys aren't item dependent, who cares if they get a few more last hits than you). Safety first vs. these dangerous foes.
Good Team Mates:Succubus does not like heroes that can get up in her face. While she does have Mesmerize, bare in mind at this stage that it only has a 4 second duration and a 15second cooldown. These guys can get right up at you, and if you need to escape, they can catch right back up to you, these guys can force you into speccing quite defensive (taking Smitten reasonably early, and perhaps even maxing out Mesmerize sooner, just to get a window to escape properly), the biggest pain about opponents like this, is they tell you how to play the game, you don't get to play how you want to.
High Profile Targets:
The best bit about these guys is that everyone wants them either dead, or at best; controlled. This is fantastic for you, because not only does it take the attention straight away from you, it lets you protect them too. That Soulstealer can do some massive damage...but it's okay, because you can Smitten the Madman ripping into him, you can sleep that Hellbringer that wants to stop his ult, and you can start holding that guy who's about to get nailed by his ultimate. That Behemoth could get disabled when he Ports in, or he could pull off that ultimate uninterrupted because that Pollywog is in a peaceful slumber. Your opponents really cannot afford to control you when these threats are coming up behind you, take advantage of this, it's fun.
Tight Bunched Mayhem Creators:
These guys are great. You're a hero that locks a minimum of two heroes (three if you have Sheepstick) in one tight area. If some heroes get too close, you can pin 3 of them down together, and let these guys weave their magic. Once a Tempest, Plague Rider, or Glacius can get a group of opponents in a tightly confined area, there is havoc to be wrecked, and lots of it. This allows you to pick off stragglers with a long range Heartache, and enjoy the carnage. You will love having heroes like this on your team because it allows you to jump into the fight from the trees, or from an invisibility rune, set up a kill, and then watch as your team mates come in and absolutely clean it up.
Hard Opponents:
Heroes with high mobility:
Heroes that can Stun and Disable and Control you:
One of the things about being a heavy disabler, is how much of a target it makes you to the other team, you will become a magnet for all forms of control spells. These pictures above you are faces you won't be fond of as Succubus, Nymphora has a hugely long range stun that she can launch at you over cliffs, trees, everything, all those places that you love to control the fights from. Pollywog is one of those guys who can just take you out of a fight, his teammates are free to do whatever they like when you're a little critter bouncing around, or when your hold becomes being held. And last but certainly not least, Hellbringer, this is the bane of your existence, for one simple reason, there's absolutely nothing you can do about him. In almost all cases a nice Shrunken Head will solve your problems, not against Hellbringer, he doesn't even need to target you specifically, just drop that fiery demon somewhere in your vicinity and that's your hold gone, Hellbringer needs controlling, and he needs a lot of it.
The Lamo's with Magic Immunity:
These guys get a section to themselves, because quite simply...they're dicks. You are a caster with 4 active spells. You are quite literally useless against these guys, you can autoattack to your hearts content, but it's not going to do anything. You can't solo these guys, you just can't, don't even try.
Accursed also comes into this section, not particularly because he's almost impossible to kill as Succubus (this is annoying in itself though), but because his Fire Shield single-handedly gets rid of Smitten, Mesmerize AND Succubus' Hold, meaning anything you can do...he can just simply just undo, not fun to play against.
[SK]Korok's Succubus:
1) High Level TMM Match 23-4-20 Succubus Replay:
Match ID: 54032361
2) High Level TMM Match 7-0-11 Succubus Replay:
Match ID: 51242613
3) High Level TMM Match 29-8-12 Succubus Replay:
Match ID: 42087018
4) SK vs fnaticMSI Match 4-0-8 Succubus Replay:
Match ID: 51327621
[OK]H4nn1's Succubus:
1) High Level TMM Match 10-0-4 Succubus Replay:
Match ID: 51999062
2) High Level TMM Match 10-0-14 Succubus Replay:
Match ID: 53949130
Outdated Old Replays:
Succubus is a fantastic hero that can single-handedly sway the course of a team fight, with powerful disables and massive control, she is a huge force to be reckoned with when played well. My hope is for people to read this guide and glean some information on the playstyle of this incredibly fun hero. If there's anything that I have left out that you feel should definitely be said, feel free to stop by and mention it. If this guide was useful to you also feel free to let me know if it has helped out. By that token as well, if if there's anything you disagree with, I'd love the feedback.
Thank you for taking the time to read.
Last edited by Dyzfunkshun; 08-01-2011 at 11:14 PM.
Something that might be wise to mention under Puzzlebox is that the group micromanagement system in HoN is not, at least yet, as good as WC3/DotA. If you use your ultimate and select your hero as well as the summons and give an attack order, it breaks your channeling. I learned this the hard way and I made me want to /wrists.
I'm not sure if queuing an attack order with Shift will work properly, so be sure to only select your summons before you tell them to attack.
An important note, thank you. Edited into the guide.Originally Posted by King_Fear
Something that might be wise to mention under Puzzlebox is that the group micromanagement system in HoN is not, at least yet, as good as WC3/DotA. If you use your ultimate and select your hero as well as the summons and give an attack order, it breaks your channeling. I learned this the hard way and I made me want to /wrists.
I'm not sure if queuing an attack order with Shift will work properly, so be sure to only select your summons before you tell them to attack.
How about Refresher for a luxury item? Sometimes CD on her ult really hurts, mana isn't bad either.
This is one of those things that falls into the
"As with all heroes, this is not the be-all end-all of lists, but generally the items you will use/aim for in 90% of games. It all comes down to the situation and who you are up against."
My main problem with refresher orb, is it doesn't do anything for your mana pool at all. And the overall cost of 2 ults and the refresher activation is 1,175mana. Yes you get mana back from your ult, but that's assuming a situation where everything goes according to plan. I have tried Restoration stone one time on Succubus, and I found the fights where you did manage to get off two ulti's were ones we were already winning anyway, or I was absolutely empty on mana, and could barely even mesmerize. And a 3.5min CD on Restoration Stone itself means you can rarely attempt the plays anyway.
It is one of those things that you can use, but I wouldn't get it till I had both Kuldra (for mana pool) and Shrunken Head (to make sure those two ults actually worked) first. So yeah, certainly not saying it should never be used, but I think the alternatives are more useful.
very nicely put together guide that's very easy to look at, premium for sure
A superb guide.
very nice guide, i like your item and skillbuild because its similar to mine
but you could add (just for fun, or for -em games) somethink like a carrie build.
hm i usually start off with:
-6 mana pots (300)
-4 minor totems (212)
-1 runes of blight (90)
---------------------
602g
the 6 manapots let u stay in the lane incredibly long. Just stay back and lasthit till level 3. then u can play more aggresive. in level 5 go and spam heartache till u hit level 6 -> heartache + ulti -> dead (this way if ure mid and the enemy doesnt have bottle)
i normally play with Sac stone (after that kuldra), cuz of nice manareg and hp bonus. Cuz of the hp bonus i dont die that fast with heartache and mes.
when i play against noobs i go for hellflower and then kuldra.
i really suggest to start with my startitems. they make u stay forever. most time i can stay till i got my sac stone. ofc this depends on enemy hero..
The problem I have with those starting items, is there's no real progression. Out of the gold you spend at the start, 7 are consumables, and 4 are items that (unless for some reason you get Power Supply or various Astrolabe components) are just going to be resold back to the vendor.
I mean ultimately it comes down to your playstyle, but generally I find playing super aggressive as Succubus doesn't really accomplish much, Heartbreak CD is too long, and so expensive that you will be mana potting after each Heartbreak, which will force you to hang back a bit more, because of Succubus's shortish attack range, you can't stand where you would like to, in fear of a quick spell or auto attack from a longer range player, which will break your mana pot, effectively taking you away from your job of last hitting.
Succubus can already stay in the lane long enough for all realistic purposes without so many consumables, and my starting build allows you to flow easier into your upgrades, rather than consumables and resellables.
As for Sacrificial Stone, as mentioned in the guide, I believe you are better off rushing for other alternatives. With the recent nerfs to it I just can't seem to justify it as worthwhile anymore. As I've said, the mana regen and HP boost are ~nice~, but they don't compare to other choices as far as main items go. Ultimately Totem of Kuldra and Shrunken Head will be helping you out more vs. good quality opponents, where Sacrificial Stone (1. Doesn't really protect you in any real way, 2. Doesn't really ~do~ anything), it's always nice in a pubstomp where you have like 20 charges on it, but generally I would shoot for something a bit more practical.
hard to see a carry succubusvery nice guide, i like your item and skillbuild because its similar to mine
but you could add (just for fun, or for -em games) somethink like a carrie build.
succubus ftw!!!
i luv ur guide, n is extremely useful.
thank you.
Good to see the guide helping people out. All feedback is appreciated.
mock + charged hammer are awesome! :P also really nice since the hero is useless after the spells are thrown of, heartbreaker/sleep/ulti got all to long cd's so the only thing you can do to help your team after those were blown off is so autoattack.
btw, as i said, for fungames or -em games :P
Heartbreak -> Heartache
Also, Azen used Bottle with Bane Elemental in one of his competitive DotA matches and got an Ultra Kill (Quad Kill)! OMG!
Maybe you'll want to reconsider Bottle...
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Look for my highlighted text (important information) and grey text (interesting but not required information).
I have been using succubus/Bane since I started to play DOTA. I find Portal key to be very effective on her increasing the versatility to the extreme. It takes the enemy off guard. Even if you are far away you can jump-in Sleep+Ultimate. If the enemy is smart they will know that succubus is gonna be ganking each time her ultimate is up, so as soon as they can they put wards/take care and as soon as they see you around or close they back off. Portal key will eliminate this situation by totally taking them off guard. It also helps her a lot with the survivability. Blink Dagger/Portal Key + Guinsso/totem of kundra has been my best item build. I recommend you to try this out you won't be disappointed.
Also bottle on her is not bad at all, that is if you are going mid. This is not because of the plus healing and mana but because she can totally control runes having sleep on her arsenal. Controlling runes will make you even more viable and versatile. Imagine this: The hero runs away looking for a rune, you chase him and find out the rune is there. You sleep him and take the rune, You can even drink and bottle the rune while the sleep is still in effect!. Also having runes with yourself all the time will make you even more dangerous as a ganker.
Last edited by Dyslogic; 10-28-2009 at 10:24 PM.
Woops, never even noticed that, thank you, fixed up now.
Generally speaking I don't like to fall prey to "Well xxx did xxx with xxx item, therefore it's good". You can set up stunning plays with all sorts of items in various situations, and Bottle is one of those items that allows you to pull off stunning plays in the right circumstances on almost any hero in the game. Being able to juke and LoS your opponents while you drink up, and suddenly turn around and turn the tables on them is always fun, but often it doesn't play out like this.
And @ Dyslogic; I certainly don't disagree with what you are saying, and you're perfectly right in that she can beat many heroes in rune control. However you don't need to have a bottle yourself to out-rune your opponent.
Given an ideal situation where you're playing in a match with a coordinated team, your babysitter/support hero will often buy your Winged Courier (or plain Monkey) at the start of the match, meaning you can still buy your initial items at the start, and rush down the bottle later if you feel the need. I will always advocate starting out with my initial items when you first enter a lane, and then see what kind of opponent you are up against. If you're facing someone who's really relying on runes to make your life a living hell, a) You can quickly farm up 600g to get a bottle down to you (not difficult with Succy's last hitting ability). b) Rush down some wards (if your team hasn't set any up) and make sure to monitor the rune situation, and use Level 1 Mesmerize to deny him the runes.
What I am trying to say is that while the Bottle could potentially be used in the right situation, I want to discourage people from thinking it's a prime objective for succubus, as time after time (and through personal testing) I have seen that it's not as useful as setting up other item choices.
I will preface what I have to say by admitting I haven't actually tried Blink Dagger/Portal key on this hero before (and haven't actually seen it used), so take what I have to say as theory rather than experienced thoughts. But given a situation where you have another hero on your team that is going to be buying wards; you have a better babysitter/support like Plague Rider/Nymphora/Demented Shaman etc. that is going to be freeing up your gold for building up Succubus properly. It would depend on your early game farming, Portal Key strikes me more as a Luxury item when you've had a strong early game, maybe gone 2-0+ in your lane, and have managed to control the last hitting a lot. Given an average farm, when you've been in a tough lane, I can't see myself wanting to dish out 2k gold for a positional item. I understand that it would be a great item early on in the ganking process, allowing you to setup some great team kills that you previously would not have been able to get to. As the game flows on into midgame however, Succubus is certainly not an initiator (and with spending money on an item with no stats, is going to be especially vulnerable), her role is mainly to come in after your initiator has started the fight, and then sleep someone who is capable of doing a lot of damage. Blink Dagger's effectiveness in this situation seems to taper off, as apart from the "SURPRISE YOU THOUGHT 1 HERO WAS HERE, WHEN ACTUALLY THERE'S 4 OF US" situations, in large 5v5 fights, I would be much more interested in having other items.
Feel free to expand on your opinion, as an avid user you would certainly have more input. My gut feeling is it's just a luxury that certainly helps, but doesn't seem like a main goal.
EDIT:
Much appreciated, thank you.
Last edited by Dyzfunkshun; 10-29-2009 at 11:44 AM.
Firstly I got to say that I totally agree with you about the rune control and the unnecessary bottle. I was merely pointing out that is not totally useless and that it can be a good option.
About the dagger...
Like you said in your guide, she has very good last hit capability and she can control very well while staying on the lane at the same time. I usually find it hard to not be able to farm a Dagger (only when I get ganked early I don't buy it at all). The problem with succubus is that if she didn't do well early/mid game she will not be able to fulfill her own purpose. In my opinion her main purpose is to cripple the opponent and not to stack yourself with amassing items. This might be a matter of play stile and how we foresee the main purpose of our succubus game play late mid and early game obviously depending on the setup.
Just like you said in your guide, she doesn't depend on items, if this is true then every other items we buy for her are a matter of play stile and necessity. I'm just saying that Blink dagger has been my funniest, aggressive, max versatile item I most of the time buy for her, and I like it so much I almost always end up buying one and going out for gank fiesta xD to try and eliminate any hope of escape. Also Early game Dagger + sleep + ultimate is a perfect initiation combo and like you said latte game it's not gonna be very viable and that's when guinsso or BKB or Euls comes into place. If your team is good you can blink and position yourself in a way that you can sleep any DPS/Main CC and Grip someone else while your team goes in. True, latte game blink dagger will only help you get a good positioning but meanwhile in mid game you must have owned =P.
Anyways you pretty much said everything about succubus in this guide but it was bugging me a bit that you never tried blink dagger =).
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