Savage Mace vs Charged Hammer vs Shieldbreaker vs Riftshards - Mathcraft

[DirecTwiX]

I recommend comparing additional damage per gold.

Thanks.. And last question... Should I buy SB against STR and INT heroes rather than against AGI?

[BigBoss00]

Agility heroes don't end up with insane amounts of armour unless they get alot of it, you would be better off looking at their base armour or trying to predict their item builds.

[[S2]MacroHard]

I am the only person on HON who believes SB is far too overrated. It is so easy to counter and nearly every other straight dps item offers more efficiency and better side benefits (except riftshards).

That being said, sb counters low armor. Agi heroes tend to have the highest armor unless the enemy str heroes are smart and went daemonic/barbed/plated/frostfield etc.

[pechkin]

on agi heroes nullfire is a much better pickup, burn mana, slow, dispell, dmg, attack speed, not only dmg liek shieldbreaker does.

[[AOWL]SmurfinBird]

I am the only person on HON who believes SB is far too overrated. It is so easy to counter and nearly every other straight dps item offers more efficiency and better side benefits (except riftshards).

That being said, sb counters low armor. Agi heroes tend to have the highest armor unless the enemy str heroes are smart and went daemonic/barbed/plated/frostfield etc.

I've gone off shieldbreaker since the last change to it. I find myself hating the frostburn modifier too, neither of them seem to shine anymore. There are obviously some situations that they are better but I won't pick them as a safe bet anymore.

[[S2]MacroHard]

Updated for 2.5.18 (Charged Hammer now 5400g instead of 5500g).

[MonsterTrike]

Charged Hammer beats out Riftshards for sure, though many people have disagreed with me on this. Magic Damage is stronger late game and it chains to allies. The whole "one attack at a time" argument is largely invalid. 1) You can animation cancel more with faster attack 2) if you get interrupted for an attack its not as significant 3) if you cant stay still and attack for 2 or 3 seconds at a time then you are not carrying properly anyhow.v

1) This isn't true. The opposite is true, actually. I think you want to say that the back-swing on animations is shorter with faster attack speed?

2.) This is very true, but isn't going to have an appreciable effect unless we're talking about Pebbles vs. Pharoah.

3.) The idea that a good carry must be able to stand still and attack for 3 seconds without moving is pretty silly. While easier for ranged carries, even they will frequently be in team fights that require them to constantly re-position themselves, and this doesn't mean taking one step, it usually means taking several.

What the numbers suggest is relevant only to games played in Practice Mode. ^^ There's a reason Charged Hammer is so unpopular in high-level play, and it's not because they just haven't seen your graphs yet.

If you really want a test of the damage, get a friend of equalish skill to 1v1 you.

• Both of you play Valk.
• You get power-supply, steamboots set to agi (for no HP advantage), and a charged hammer.
• Your friend gets power-supply, ghost marchers, and lvl 4 riftshardrs.
• You both are quarantined to the legion jungle.
• You may both go wherever you want, and fight however you want, so long as you don't leave the legion jungle.

Tell us the results of 10 rounds.

My money is on riftshards winning with superior kiting, and zero arrows landed. But, if you both just stand in front of each other and auto-attack, Charged Hammer would win (unless very unlucky lightning proc streak).

[DeepWaters]

Ive came across a difficulty while trying to read this thread:http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/sh...ards-Mathcraft

What does it mean values above curve favor riftshards? Where the curve beings and ends?

[[S2]ElementUser]

Example graph:

The blue curve (lack of a better word) on the graph is considered "the curve" that you are referring to in this graph. Every point above (and to the right) of the curve is considered "values above curve" and such points/values means that mathematically (and under the assumptions that the graph maker makes in his briefing) Riftshards gives more DPS than Savage Mace.

The blue curve in this graph represents the curve where the DPS of Riftshards equals the DPS of Savage Mace as a function of both damage (x-axis) and attack speed (y-axis).

To explain it graphically, the red shaded area of the following graph is considered the "points above the curve" or "values above curve":

[[SBD]ShAdOw_LaNcE]

So it would seem that it's a fools move to get riftshards before late game.

[[AOWL]SmurfinBird]

So it would seem that it's a fools move to get riftshards before late game.

After some core items and maybe one luxury item some carries are close to the threshold.

[[TL]torfteufel]

i love this! being a thunderhammer fanboy makes me sleep well at night again

also i really dont like shield breaker very much. you just buy a ringmail (550gold) and laugh plus its just doesnt scale very well into late game (too much armor).

the main reason to why i like getting thunderhammer is you just shred their support while focussing whatever you want...bzzz.bzzz
also, once you have seen a legionnaire with the charged hammer buff initiate...priceless!

[[E]Clytemnestra]

hello.can you do the same thing for hellflower on both int and nonint heroes?(not with the added bonus damage ofcourse)

[[E]Marach]

yea, it would be interesting to see where items like nullfire blade, hellflower, wingbow and others stand...

[[E]Ahimtar]

i think it would be pretty interesting to add doombringer there

[Aghny]

So, new graph for charged hammer ?

[[S2]MacroHard]

Updated for the recent buff to Charged Hammer and not-so-recent buff to Riftshards.

[[E]Clytemnestra]

still,can we see old vs new charged hammer?

also i think i am reading these wrong.say,i am looking at sb vs savage 200 attack speed and 160 damage.Do i have to have these values before i buy the item or after?(because these items also give damage themselves)

[[SBT]Necroth]

also i think i am reading these wrong.say,i am looking at sb vs savage 200 attack speed and 160 damage.Do i have to have these values before i buy the item or after?(because these items also give damage themselves)

Before.

[[EUC]sabuk]

recomendation was the best