Balance Dump

[Shadeward]

Is it just me or does Tundra really rape melee heroes in middle?

I mean I usually support, so I don't usually play a ganker like Tundra, but I still managed to completely stomp Tremble, Pebbles and Electrician.

Also: His shards say they are "superior mixed damage". Now mixed damage means that it's half physical, half magical, but superior would indicate it goes through immunity. I always thought that only the physical part went though magic immunity, and only the magic part through physical immunity, but since it says "superior mixed damage" it would go through both?

Tundra is an exceptionnal solo hero, period. He's even better against melee because that means you can't dodge his viper pig to get last hits, meaning he can jump on you as soon as you walk in.

Then there's lvl 6 and runes.

[skeloperch]

Tundra is really good, you just need to be Korean to master him is all.

EW's Q is an auto attack that deals an extra 120 damage and silences. His wolves do 220 damage. His bird deals 100/200/300 damage. He has no carrying capacity, shitty early game, no escape mechanisms, no stuns, low movement speed, and a nerfed Techies' stasis trap.

I don't know why people say he's ungankable. Several gankers, and I mean several, can sneak up on him. and are just a couple of the heroes that can escape his clearvision. Also, most of the time you're trying to look for people in the woods, your bird is in the opposite direction of where you want it to be.

I just think EW is trash tier and only madbads say he is OP.

[PzKw]

It's not even that he's OP. He's retarded easy. I know the devs think it's in a good way, but it's in a bad way.

[[Poni]Twi_Sparkle]

Rampage should be banned from being on the other team. Or at least, if he's on the other team I should get a free Nullstone.

Scrub question: what the hell do you even do against a Rampage? I usually am playing some squishy support that can't do a damn thing other than attempt to get rid of his vision over the map, but whenever I'm up against a Rampage, they always somehow are a wizard and magically can see everyone and charge whenever.

[skeloperch]

Scrub question: what the hell do you even do against a Rampage? I usually am playing some squishy support that can't do a damn thing other than attempt to get rid of his vision over the map, but whenever I'm up against a Rampage, they always somehow are a wizard and magically can see everyone and charge whenever.

Some heroes are just meant to die by Rampage's hands. One thing you can do, however, is plan ahead. Playing ? Pitfall before he leaps, so he flies up into the air while stunned. Playing ? Put up mummies, deny one, and walk out of wall. Playing ? You're ****ed.

But that's the beauty of Rampage. He kills one hero extremely hard, and then does nothing. If you get targetted, try pulling him away from your team so they don't have to put up with him while teamfighting. You're going down anyways, so you might as well make your last seconds count.

[[IaF]Skyve]

Is anyone else thinking that Aluna's Deja Vu is either incredibly underpowered or "overpriced" in terms of cooldown and manacost?

I mean compared to Windrunners Windrunner which gives +50% MS and 100% dodge on lvl1, Deja Vu doesn't seem to do too much.
Windrunner also slows nearby enemies (8-30%) and lasts ~as long as Deja Vu.
Deja Vu does have the teleportation, but considering how it works, it just doesn't seem to justify Deja Vu being that much weaker in comparisong:

Deja Vu/Windrunner
Manacost: 100/100
Cooldown: 30/15
Duration: 3-4.5/2.75-5
Movementspeed: 25-40%/50%
Slow: only with ultimate/8-30%
Evasion: 0/100%
Unitwalking: yes/no
Disjoint/Teleport: yes/no

I feel like they should either reduce the manacost (to ~25-40), or reduce the cooldown to ~20, and maybe give her 100% evasion with her ultimate.

[Shadeward]

Is anyone else thinking that Aluna's Deja Vu is either incredibly underpowered or "overpriced" in terms of cooldown and manacost?

I mean compared to Windrunners Windrunner which gives +50% MS and 100% dodge on lvl1, Deja Vu doesn't seem to do too much.
Windrunner also slows nearby enemies (8-30%) and lasts ~as long as Deja Vu.
Deja Vu does have the teleportation, but considering how it works, it just doesn't seem to justify Deja Vu being that much weaker in comparisong:

Deja Vu/Windrunner
Manacost: 100/100
Cooldown: 30/15
Duration: 3-4.5/2.75-5
Movementspeed: 25-40%/50%
Slow: only with ultimate/8-30%
Evasion: 0/100%
Unitwalking: yes/no
Disjoint/Teleport: yes/no

I feel like they should either reduce the manacost (to ~25-40), or reduce the cooldown to ~20, and maybe give her 100% evasion with her ultimate.

I assume that was the price they felt Aluna had to pay to get a much more reliable stun with a buff.

Windrunner is 10 times the hero Aluna is though, that's why one is top tier, the other is garbage tier.

[[Die2]Bojangles15]

I assume that was the price they felt Aluna had to pay to get a much more reliable stun with a buff.

Windrunner is 10 times the hero Aluna is though, that's why one is top tier, the other is garbage tier.

How is Aluna in any way garbage tier?

[[IaF]Skyve]

Windrunner is 10 times the hero Aluna is though, that's why one is top tier, the other is garbage tier.

Aluna isn't garbage tier. She isn't picked up much anymore now that the tri-lane era has died off, but she's still a solid hero.
Windrunner, interestingly enough, was used the opposite way Aluna was. Aluna usually was the tri-lane carry, Windrunner is usually used to go AGAINST a tri-lane, because of her high survivability (2.5 str gain per level, 1800 range farm nuke, strong escape mechanism).

At the moment, Aluna just feels like she's lacking that "something" that puts her onto a similar level that Valk is on (just comparing her for their similar uses sake, not because Valk is the epitome of balance).

[Shadeward]

How is Aluna in any way garbage tier?

Low burst damage, outshined in carry potential? She's hardly ever picked.

Aluna isn't garbage tier. She isn't picked up much anymore now that the tri-lane era has died off, but she's still a solid hero.
Windrunner, interestingly enough, was used the opposite way Aluna was. Aluna usually was the tri-lane carry, Windrunner is usually used to go AGAINST a tri-lane, because of her high survivability (2.5 str gain per level, 1800 range farm nuke, strong escape mechanism).

At the moment, Aluna just feels like she's lacking that "something" that puts her onto a similar level that Valk is on (just comparing her for their similar uses sake, not because Valk is the epitome of balance).

All heroes have something that makes them solid. Aluna just isn't great at anything. So other heroes get picked over her.

She's not exactly Bloodhunter/Balphagore garbage tier, but her and heroes like Arachna, Warbeast, Soul Reaper, etc. all fall victim to the almighty HoN power creep.

[PzKw]

Fairly. Not that I have the time.

[[GM]Gridlocked]

I have DotA 2. Jelly?

I have one pound of nuts.

You jelly?

[Zilrax]

Scrub question: what the hell do you even do against a Rampage? I usually am playing some squishy support that can't do a damn thing other than attempt to get rid of his vision over the map, but whenever I'm up against a Rampage, they always somehow are a wizard and magically can see everyone and charge whenever.

Okay, let's explain this properly. We've gotten this question a lot, and since you aren't raging, I'll answer.

First off, Rampage is fairly strong, but he's very linear. He can only do one thing which is, besides being melee, his biggest weakness.

Foremost, the best way to deal with Rampage is Wards. He takes the most obvious paths to you generally, and if you have warning, it's much easier to avoid his charge.

How do you avoid it? Well strictly speaking the only way is to either tp before he gets to you, which breaks the charge, to disjoint it when he leaps at you (takes practice and is hero specific), run back to the tower and hope he doesn't follow (Works best early game, later he'll dive you.), or group up with your team.

However, there is more that you can do. Void Talisman makes him completely unable to touch you. Flip it on when he gets close and he's helpless. Nullstone will stop his charge but is unfeasible for supports.

Stormspirit and Tablet warrant a special mention as well. Rampage's ult is broken if the distance between him and the guy he's grabbing exceeds a certain distance, to prevent him from buying a portal key, grabbing you and porting off. Tableting the guy who's been grabbed can break the charge. Stormspiriting yourself just before he lands his charge, or on him or the person who was grabbed can also save lives.

Rampage is also entirely melee. Send two ranged heroes against him and he'll have a lot of trouble early game.

All considered, one of the best ways to not be raped by Rampage though is don't solo queue, but that's a little harsh. The why being that Rampage destroys the unorganized, and that's the perfect description for most random pub teams.

[[Poni]Twi_Sparkle]

Thanks for the tips. I tend to do a fair amount of solo queuing, and I'd have to agree with your last statement pretty strongly.

I'll give Stormspirit/Tablet/Void a shot!

More on topic, I haven't seen a good Soul Reaper in a long time. He must be underpowered.

[`G1deon]

Ra is kinda op in my opinion. And global stats says its around 54% of wins by Ra's.

And there is a thing thats makes me sad. Fkin heroes with 2 passives. Most of them incredibly easy and even if u bad dead blind no hands dog - u can get some kills. I'd like to see some reworks. Less passives = higher skill required, more games depends on players hands not on some rollface/1button stuff.

[[MlES]BaconCPK]

Valkyrie is the most retarded hero ingame, nerf her already ktybai.

Also, ''No, she has a ''skillshot''.''

[GregerMoek]

There will always be heroes that are skillless.

What do you expect in a game with the most possible amount of abilities is 4?

...

It isnt WoW with over 100 skills like a druid, scrubs being good at HoN is the nature of the game.

If you want a game where the gap between good and horribad is significant, try Starcraft 2 or WoW Arena

LOL, WoW arena requires only the current OP setup and you'll win. The scrubs are better in WoW than they are in HoN because they use all those abilities when they levle. Moreover in area you don't use over 100 skills as ANY class.

The CC's are all balanced around one item which lolblizz is trying to balance the whole PvP game around.

DotA HoN requires more team coordination than WoW arena ever will.

As someone who was the third top rated in WoW arena season 3 before Warglaives (up to the point when Arena went downhill in terms of balance and everything else) WoW arena is far from harder than HoN.

I mean I played for maybe three years, was one of the best in my battle group. I've played HoN for maybe two years, given that I don't have any team to play with which some might claim does a lot, and I haven't even reached past 1820 rating in MMR. I personally don't believe that team crap, people can solo their way to their own level if they are good enough.

Having more buttons to mash =/= more skill needed.
Scrubs in WoW can win easier than scrubs in HoN. Mostly because the only type of positioning that matters in WoW is if you're behind a pillar or not when you're a healer along with if you're in range to heal and dispell.

In HoN you need to draft strategically and perhaps even hope to outpick your opponent. Then you need to perform well and in most cases you need to aim something, which isn't the case in WoW. You can play any setup and get to 2400 rating EASILY. There are more RNG stuff in WoW such as crits and skills like Frostbite or Blazing Speed. Almost all mastery things and random **** like that. A single macro and you can locate any nearby enemies easily unless they are stealthed. You play 3v3 (because 5v5 is just about 12345-setups atm). In HoN you need more communication because you often need to have some kind of coordination when loling up your spells, in WoW sure this is what you aim to do as well, but the lengths of CC and the non-progressing stats in a game pretty much makes every fight similar to something you've done before.

In WoW you visit arenajunkies if you're a scrub and read a guide for your class and team up with someone. Then you play arena as if you'd play PvE (YES players ARE predictable in WoW, there are pretty much only a few things people would consider doing in any situation, for example pop palabubble if it's off cd and they are going low while being silenced or stunned) up to about 2400 rating. At that level you need to think a bit, if you have the current OP setup you'll probably do fine. Not to mention that RMP has always and will always be good because Rogues and Mages pretty much always will be strong because of their ccs and utilities and they are able to reset fights pretty easily.

Basically, HoN is harder than WoW for many many reasons. The noobs in WoW are better than the noobs in HoN. Also WoW is one of the most unbalanced games in terms of PvP and the balance team are not even trying.

To sum it up, even if you have 100 skills in WoW you basically only need to use about 10 of them. As a mage for example you get far by only having
Frost Nova, Frostbolt, Ice Lance, Ice Block, Ice Barrier, Elemental, Blink, FFB, Deep Freeze, Evocation and Polymorph. Sure there are a few more to achieve perfection but mashing more buttons doesn't make it harder.

In WoW you need timing only once you learn the oh so hard combinations of 13-18 spells you might use in Arena as almost two thirds of your skills are spec dependant. In HoN you need timing, strategy, team setup, positioning, knowledge, item progression and map awareness and much more.


Could write an essay but you won't get the point anyways I suppose.

[changlingbob]

Did I ever say her wolves were the only problem? I am pretty sure its her entire skill-set that is the problem and not individual skill, if anything I think wolves are totally fine, it's everything else that isn't

I disagree! Funny how that works!

I'd argue that, due to the constant chipping of health and difficulty of getting away from wolves, the other three skills shine; if wolves were toned down, they'd still be strong, but not quite as rofltacular at the lower levels. Alternatively, people could learn that there's more to building items than following a specific guide, and sometimes you need to pick up a different item from normal.

[pewpewstar]

So I've been trying to post here and there on this forum, but I'm cracking. Kudos to those of you that manage to keep your sanity intact after being here for so long.

Maybe I should stop holding it in

[BlueTomorrow]

I don't like carries who can out-harass a support. Nomad for example, a pretty subpar hero BUT the fact that he slams the **** out of you during the laningphase without putting himself at risk (just sending that illu, hurpadurp) makes his design "broken" for all I know. Buff his stats or something so he becomes a more viable autoattack-carry, but tweak the concept of his earlygame. Swiftblade puts himself at risk when he spins into someone etc, which is why I think swift's earlygame is ok while nomad's isn't. Hella, even gladi (which, for the record, I find underwhelming) can whip your ranged ass away from the lane, with no cost. Poorly designed. Puppet master is a pain aswell, being able to harass from a safe distance and doing more damage to your supportass than you to him, but since he has no real "spells" I guess it's fine (still pisses me off tho, but I'm bad)

Soulreaper and Empath should recieve some minor buffs. Empath needs a bit more range for her ult imo.

Torturer: give her stun more castime again. Not as much as before, but more than now. If that ruins her, reverse her recent aoenerf .

Don't make str-heroes "unkillable". Some can stand their ground in the midlane np, get alot of ck and still have something really good to offer to the team (tree and kraken teamult, tree push) when they have escapemechanisms (kraken tsunami, tree invis) AND are "beefy" in general.

Buff Martyr, he has barely any potential at all without farm (or well, his Q and R are more than fine). Change Vindicator's concept. Make Blacksmith less dependant on "luck". Make vodoo's curse a debuff so it can be purged, and buff his heal a bit on low levels (either reverse the mananerf or make it heal slightly more). And IMO Monarchs Chrysalis should not tie her ally to the ground for four seconds, three is enough. Her ult giving movespeed might be a tad bit too much (tho I like it as it is).

BUFF nomes wisdom. It's like an upgrade for ring och the teacher now.. NERF Sol's Bulwark. Give it +-3 armor OR make it -5 without being able to toggle it.