Balance Dump

[[IaF]Skyve]

Well, sure, he needs his mobility. That doesn't make him any less of a hardcarry though.

[Anakha]

The idea behind a hard carry is that they'll just shred a team and end a game past a certain point. Magebane's orb peaks at level 7, Mana Rift will only do so much damage, Blink is hard-countered by the instant nature of blinkhex initiation and the range of sheep/orchid, and aspd scaling through BAT is severely limited by inventory restrictions on him because of a requirement that he cant build pure damage even under favourable circumstances because of such.
He's a midgame carry that snowballs off early survivability that doesn't taper off as quickly as others (zephyr) but needs more help to carry than them.

The hero's greatest strength limits him so hard.

[Bob_Sagtits]

And that is a good thing right? To have heroes who have obvious weaknesses I mean

[Anakha]

Sure. It makes the game less derp.

[Launders]

The idea behind a hard carry is that they'll just shred a team and end a game past a certain point. Magebane's orb peaks at level 7, Mana Rift will only do so much damage, Blink is hard-countered by the instant nature of blinkhex initiation and the range of sheep/orchid, and aspd scaling through BAT is severely limited by inventory restrictions on him because of a requirement that he cant build pure damage even under favourable circumstances because of such.
He's a midgame carry that snowballs off early survivability that doesn't taper off as quickly as others (zephyr) but needs more help to carry than them.

The hero's greatest strength limits him so hard.

He's still viable within his limitations though.

After playing Dota 2 a bit I cant really be sure if he's better with the passive magic resist (in Dota 2) or the mobile Nether Ward (HoN).

[Anakha]

He's still viable within his limitations though.

After playing Dota 2 a bit I cant really be sure if he's better with the passive magic resist (in Dota 2) or the mobile Nether Ward (HoN).

Didn't say or imply he wasn't.

[[GM]Cyber_Kun]

Flux got a massive buff.

He can now push/pull allies. This might be the best change ever besides making it also mini-stun enemies.

[Launders]

Didn't say or imply he wasn't.

touché.

[Anakha]

I'm almost 100% certain that was not supposed to be in the retail client. They were not meant to be making any balance changes before DHW.

[skeloperch]

You play LoL? D: was not aware of that. Does chu still play? Do you still play? Add me.

I do play LoL, although I never got to a really high level. I mostly play HoN, same with Chu, but we also like to play LoL from time to time.I believe the farthest I've ever gotten was level 17 or something, but I have played against Flashmetagolem.

[Anakha]

Also, forgot to add: Blink as a concept is incredibly powerful, I think we can all agree on that. Having said that, the measures in the game that are in place to deal with Blink are quite severe, and often ruin the hero's ability to be effective on top of disabling it.
If they weren't, Blink as a skill would be horrendously overpowered for the heroes that had it or could use it.

LoL's Flash is a really good example of this.

[[IaF]Skyve]

Also, forgot to add: Blink as a concept is incredibly powerful, I think we can all agree on that. Having said that, the measures in the game that are in place to deal with Blink are quite severe, and often ruin the hero's ability to be effective on top of disabling it.
If they weren't, Blink as a skill would be horrendously overpowered for the heroes that had it or could use it.

LoL's Flash is a really good example of this.

Clairvoyance would be a good example too. Providing vision without the requirement of going somewhere or the possibility to deny it isn't exactly that balanced either

[Anakha]

So Pharaoh's Tormented Soul is overpowered?

[[IaF]Skyve]

I was more thinking along the lines of Tundra's Bird, Pharaoh's missile at least has travel time, and is more or less predictable, and doesn't have that huge AoE.

[skeloperch]

The reason CV was bullshit was because is saw through fog and brush, and it had a really low cooldown, and support heroes could get it to check for ganks, which made it almost mandatory. In it's place, Ignite became even more bullshit. Herp derp I can't finish you off, so I'm going to nuke you for a shitton of damage and remove your healing, and then I get bonus damage when it's on cooldown.


Also, CV, Flash, and Ignite are bullshit as they are extra spells, so anyone could have them.

[[AAT]Juuto]

lol, I just looked at the leaked Vindicator rework. It couldn't be anymore obscenely boring and stupid than what S2 did. I'm just baffled at how unimaginative and cheap it is.

"We want him to carry so we'll rework two of his spells, and make both of them give him attack damage/attack speed and give him an aoe farming tool". Wow lol. Such a rework.

[skeloperch]

NH only is unbeatable. Holy **** this game is hilarious

[GregerMoek]

Nighthound need to get his death ward back.

[PzKw]

Can anyone confirm/deny that
Nome was behind the direction of the Vindi remake?

[[FUKD]Bremm]

Yea, one of my favorite heroes' especially before (but somewhat less after) the well-known tweaks. Every now and then I read things like him being so goddamn broken and overpowered, that you're almost inclined to suggest nerfing all of his skills at once. Therefore I'm struggling with proper balance-tweaks...

Since Torts base AGI/AGI gain are pretty high in comparison, why not reducing one of these in order to buff his STR gain a little?

23 + 1.7
14 + 1.4
16 + 1.5

22 + 1.8
18 + 2.0

Base armor values not included, and he doesn't really rely on his auto-attack or IAS.

Quoting myself from a very old (1.0.1) thread. And since Chain Reaction now scales both in duration AND radius I'll give Anakha some food

Quote from my top secret Balance List that S2 doesn't implement:

Torturer:

- Chain Reaction cast point to 575ms from 500ms. Total cast time becomes 925ms (from 850ms)

Justification:

Currently, Pyro 450ms cast point, 500ms delay on affector impact, so 950ms total cast time.
Tort has 500ms cast point, 350ms delay on affector impact, so 850 ms total cast time.

So Torturer's stun easiness to land becomes more comparable to Pyromancer.

0 bias when a mechanical approach is used.

By the way, it was 1050ms total cast time before Torturer was changed.

Not enough for a whole discussion, but what do you guys think? Since Impalement or Torment were never the real issue plus Bonds toned down in multiple ways (still a great spell for both harrass- AND farming).