Balance Dump

[[DRD]china]

I really think her strength is simply in her consistency to perform well, rather than her capacity to reach a great ceiling. Even in hard games, she can still do extremely well. Really don't find her broken :< o well. All I play is warbeast anyways.

[skeloperch]

I really think her strength is simply in her consistency to perform well, rather than her capacity to reach a great ceiling. Even in hard games, she can still do extremely well. Really don't find her broken :< o well. All I play is warbeast anyways.

That and her innate squishiness doesn't offset her strengths. Look at all of the other squishy heroes; do they have the potential Valkyrie does, or the consistency? Heroes like EW have the consistency, but not the potential. Heroes like MK have the potential, but not the consistency.

[[eR]Ekamo]

I really think her strength is simply in her consistency to perform well, rather than her capacity to reach a great ceiling. Even in hard games, she can still do extremely well. Really don't find her broken :< o well. All I play is warbeast anyways.

With a countered ulti and missed arrows she is simply a 600 ranged 300 aoe nuke with a decent mobility skill and semi-good autoattacks.

Sure, it could be worse, but calling her consistent in her performance might be a slight over exagerration?

[PRETENT10uS]

Hrm, yes, Leap is just a 'decent' mobility skill.

Magebane's blink? Yawn, I guess it's 'okay' or something...

[[IaF]Skyve]

Hrm, yes, Leap is just a 'decent' mobility skill.

Magebane's blink? Yawn, I guess it's 'okay' or something...

Unlike Valks leap, it has a cast time. No cast time > all (well, actually it's < all, but w/e :O).

[[eR]Ekamo]

Ridicolously long cd on early levels (and late also actually), a fixed amount of distance, no cast time (for epic cancelings yao, (jk)).

Magebane's Blink > All

[[IaF]Skyve]

a fixed amount of distance

Um... every blink safe for DR repulsor has a fixed amount of distance...

[PRETENT10uS]

Magebane's Blink > All

My point wasn't to make a 1:1 comparison of Leap vs Blink because Blink is obviously better, but instead to show you how you are dismissive of the strengths of a skill because it suits your argument.

Also, the crux of your argument was that Valk sucks if she doesn't have two of her skills. Which is pretty

[[eR]Ekamo]

Um... every blink safe for DR repulsor has a fixed amount of distance...

I meant as you can't manipulate with all range that is less than max range.

Also, the crux of your argument was that Valk sucks if she doesn't have two of her skills. Which is pretty

In some games her arrow and ulti can be the deciding factor.
In some they are mainly worthless.

Valkyrie is one of those heroes who really excels when her team has an advantage in terms of map control but when they her team is at a disadvantage she doesn't bring as much to the table.

Sure, good arrows can always turn the game around but if the opponents have the map control it is pretty hard to land those vs aware opponents.

[[IaF]Skyve]

In some games her arrow and ulti can be the deciding factor.

Don't forget that arrows are useful besides just being a stun and magic damage - they also give vision

[[eR]Ekamo]

Don't forget that arrows are useful besides just being a stun and magic damage - they also give vision

True this!

[pewpewstar]

I have a random question. When should a hero be subjected to a partial/full remake?

Just because there're so many posts crying for it.

[PzKw]

I can't remember, but I remember the gist of it.

The general gist, since I now have a keyboard:

Nerf any of her trainables in one way.

Starfall: Remove double hit and out of range hitchance (second one happened, but for entirely different reasons).
Arrow: Scale damage to range, or rescale stun time over the course of the range, or reduce overall range.
Leap: Reduce range to the original intended amount and/or remove disjoint (the disjoint used to be more retarded and you required truesight to have any real chance of effecting her while Leap was off CD).

Basically PotM was never the hero she was envisaged as. PotM was originally intended to be a support ganker who couldn't really do anything much on her own, but substantially aided allies (read her original description and blurb). She turned into precisely the opposite, being the first "do anything I want to" style of hero. Her AGI gain was on par with hard carries like Slithice and Jahrakal with a great animation and excellent range, her burst was (still is) one of the highest non-ultimate bursts in the game, she has one of the highest threat ranges in the game, still has amongst the longest disables in the game and a global ulti that is useful in a tonne of situations and can potentially be gamebreaking. I hate it when people write narratives about heroes, but there's almost no way to compare this to another hero in the game even slightly. She truly is just amazing at everything, and only balanced by having low HP, which the entire concept of the hero works around (mobile, high burst, long threat range, capacity to pick your fights based on how your arrow does), and arguably low base attack damage.

She just needs something toned down, really. The concept of a highly mobile burster who doesn't need to commit to have a huge effect, and can semicarry is always going to be relevant if it's anywhere near the power curve.

[the_guy117]

I understand your point of view but it would buff to much... it would mean that if you landed root you would get a kill(occasionally you wouldn't) but it would make his ability to gank to great

That's my two cents

There's also aiming the root to account for the delay (which I believe is now 1.66 seconds), plus cast animation. Try landing it on someone with haste. Try landing it on someone with fog.

Once finds someone's general position, he can just pk in and yadayadayada you get the idea.

Conceivably, one could pk in and ult first, but that won't do as much damage as Root-->ult.

Also, Deadwood can only gank every 85/75/65 seconds, whereas pebbles can gank every 20 seconds.

And those who are smart will get ringmail to royally **** over , making said hero ungankable, unless said hero is because they burn faster than paper.

Oh lord... Now I see why people think Valkyrie is OP.

If you seriously think a skill shot from a skilled player is impossible to dodge this discussion is worthless.
Skill counters skill.

Unreliability is what balances high and maybe even OP numbers ON PAPER.
And Valkyrie's arrow is far from reliable.

Hey, person is right. is pretty OP...if you get hit by 11/10 arrows.

[PzKw]

And suddenly the pro-Valk side goes to ad hominem, as always happens with Valk conversations. It's not that arrow can't be dodged. You've missed the point worse than the arrows in your imagination miss.

[[S2]Dawnbringer]

There's also aiming the root to account for the delay (which I believe is now 1.66 seconds), plus cast animation. Try landing it on someone with haste. Try landing it on someone with fog.

Once finds someone's general position, he can just pk in and yadayadayada you get the idea.

Conceivably, one could pk in and ult first, but that won't do as much damage as Root-->ult.

Also, Deadwood can only gank every 85/75/65 seconds, whereas pebbles can gank every 20 seconds.

And those who are smart will get ringmail to royally **** over , making said hero ungankable, unless said hero is because they burn faster than paper.



Hey, person is right. is pretty OP...if you get hit by 11/10 arrows.

Lol. Ult -> Root does more damage than root -> ult due to strength reduction. Learn mechanics. Also both Doc and Bubbles can quite easily avoid deadwood. Bubbles can shellsurf -> take cover (even out of root) whereas Doctor can stun you and ult away when your root wears off. Oh, and nullstone are also very common pickups on those 2 heroes...

Valk is good at everything and therein lies the issue. It isn't just the arrows, it is that her whole skill set is good, but in addition she has decent stat gains AND no filler skills. That is, all her skills are highly useful/powerful.

[PzKw]

Lol. Ult -> Root does more damage than root -> ult due to strength reduction. Learn mechanics. Also both Doc and Bubbles can quite easily avoid deadwood. Bubbles can shellsurf -> take cover (even out of root) whereas Doctor can stun you and ult away when your root wears off. Oh, and nullstone are also very common pickups on those 2 heroes...

Erm.

Wouldn't a 24% EHP reduction from the -4 armour be more than the -20% (absolute best case scenario since they might have HP that comes from something other than strength) HP reduction from losing 20% of strength if you were only looking at physical damage?

[[S2]Dawnbringer]

Erm.

Wouldn't a 24% EHP reduction from the -4 armour be more than the -20% (absolute best case scenario since they might have HP that comes from something other than strength) HP reduction from losing 20% of strength if you were only looking at physical damage?

Depends on how much armor they have, since stacking armor is with diminishing returns. If someone has high armor and high str then ulti first may do more damage. Guess there are a lot of external factors (e.g. only stacking up magic armor to X etc) :3

Also forgot about the -armor :3

[PzKw]

Stacking armour does not produce diminishing returns. Every point of armour adds 6% to EHP. This is a flat out case of minimum 4% extra damage on using root first as far as I can say.

[[GM]Haruhi_sos]

I really honestly do believe that needs a remake on his blink. The ridiculous 6 seconds blink with barely any mana cost does wonders. It should at least be changed so that it does not provide allies with the magic armour, because really this grants this hero basically 5 skills (the magic armour as a previous one build into blink).

I know that he's a survival mobility carry, but the 320 base movement also contributes much to his survival. With this, a blink every 6 seconds at only 60 mana, it's near impossible to catch him later in the game.

Before people begin to flame saying "Don't drag the game that late" sometimes it just can't be helped.

My idea would be to nerf him would be either increase the cooldown on blink by 1-2 seconds (similarly to the change on 's stalk a while ago) OR to increase the mana cost for blink/ reduce intel stat gain per level. Either of these changes will not nerf him too badly so as he will no longer be picked, because honestly an auto-attack hero with low skill required to play (2/5 rating as per listed by the in-game goblin store) should not have a constant weekly win ratio of >52% and be in the top 30 most played every 7 days.