Balance Dump

[[babe]Blaity]

So, you're going to quantifiably demonstrate this imbalance by measuring its weighted effect upon a game over a sample set big enough to erase small outliers - and then weighing the games correctly to show that it is Kongor and only Kongor proving to be this imbalance and not any other external factor to account for?

Then I'll care about your worthless suggestions.

Your avoiding the question.

[[f13]`11411181]

Not at all. PROVE it's an imbalance, and then SHOW that your suggestion fixes that exact imbalance.

http://www.nizkor.org/features/falla...-of-proof.html

[[IaF]Skyve]

I'd like to see Furion,Tinker,WindRunner & Invoker ported to hon, so people could start ranting for a real reason

Windrunner already got ported a long time ago

[Lariatoooo]

Windrunner already got ported a long time ago

Well, not exactly the same, at all.

[Hubaris]

Well, not exactly the same, at all.

You're right, she isn't banned or FPed 100% of games.

[changlingbob]

I'd like to see Furion,Tinker,WindRunner & Invoker ported to hon, so people could start ranting for a real reason

Or Lycan

[Hubaris]

Lycan is in HoN noob. He's called Wild Soul.

[Lariatoooo]

Or Lycan

old but gold

[[GR]XFlame]

Slows and nukes.

S2 should try to create a hero that deals no damage instead of all the high powered nukers that have been coming out. No wonder tanky heroes are so prevalent.

[[TECH]Gorb]

Berserker is a nuker?

Draconis is a nuker (a pusher with his passive perhaps, but one ability does not a nuker make)?

Gravekeeper is a nuker?

Of course, there are heroes that have been (Blitz, perhaps Artillery - haven't gotten a chance to look at him much yet; final year exams, Artesia), but that doesn't make it the norm.

Would Gunblade count as a nuker?

[[babe]Blaity]

The difference between the Kongor thread and the rest of the threads is that people aren't arguing whether or not the imbalance exists but rather whether or not the suggestions appropriately address the imbalance. So the proof is right there for you, it is widely agreed that specifically with Kongor Hellbourne have an advantage. If you even bothered to read my post you would have noticed I did not make a suggestion to remedy the situation, but rather suggested the discussion not be abandoned again like so many times before.

[PeeeT]

I was wondering ifyou're going toimprove thebalancing system.Wellit's gettingtediousto play with peoplewho give upthe matchfor no reason, orare simplyvery bad.Andthis systemanddmmrpsris very flawed.I have4 000games andcan not getgames.There's alwaysanidiot insome time.HONis gettingvery annoying.I boughtthe gamebefore themm.I'mdesapointed.​

[[f13]`11411181]

The difference between the Kongor thread and the rest of the threads is that people aren't arguing whether or not the imbalance exists but rather whether or not the suggestions appropriately address the imbalance. So the proof is right there for you, it is widely agreed that specifically with Kongor Hellbourne have an advantage. If you even bothered to read my post you would have noticed I did not make a suggestion to remedy the situation, but rather suggested the discussion not be abandoned again like so many times before.

Wide agreement is not proof. http://www.nizkor.org/features/falla...opularity.html
"More formally, the fact that most people have favorable emotions associated with the claim is substituted in place of actual evidence for the claim."

[[B4WC]FurryTuna]

There is no logic in love.. Therefore, all fallacies that Anakha spits out are irrelevant <3

[[IaF]Skyve]

Love is a chemical reaction in the brain, so it basically should follow some logic.

[[GR]XFlame]

Berserker is a nuker?

Draconis is a nuker (a pusher with his passive perhaps, but one ability does not a nuker make)?

Gravekeeper is a nuker?

Of course, there are heroes that have been (Blitz, perhaps Artillery - haven't gotten a chance to look at him much yet; final year exams, Artesia), but that doesn't make it the norm.

Would Gunblade count as a nuker?

I was more thinking about the idea of a hero that would deal no damage at all. Like Flux without any damage. Just think about it, wouldn't it be bloody awesome?

[[babe]Blaity]

There is no need to prove what is has already been agreed upon previously on every occasion it has been discussed, as no argument against the statement has been put forward. If you are in fact denying that the Hellbourne team has an advantage when specifically referring to Kongor why don't you present the other side of the debate outlining how no advantage exists and it is balanced or that the legion has an advantage?

Please try not avoid the Topic this time

[[TECH]Gorb]

I was more thinking about the idea of a hero that would deal no damage at all. Like Flux without any damage. Just think about it, wouldn't it be bloody awesome?

While interesting, you'd have to work rather hard to get something that works well in this game, considering absolutely every hero deals damage in one form or another.

Also, my post was to do more about your declaration of the nukers S2 have apparently being releasing

[skeloperch]

While interesting, you'd have to work rather hard to get something that works well in this game, considering absolutely every hero deals damage in one form or another.

Also, my post was to do more about your declaration of the nukers S2 have apparently being releasing

Don't forget the declaration that S2 can only put out heroes with slow/nuke/stun/leap, and that all recent S2 heroes since... Parasite, I guess, are OP. Like it or not, Gemini, Geomancer, and Midas are special cases. People even site Ra as having an escape mechanism (if you let a ****ing 290 base movement speed, squishy melee hero without a lick of reliable CC run over a cliff, you deserved to miss that kill).

People also still forget to address Valkyrie and Pebbles as problems. They complain about Artillery, Parasite, Midas, and etc., but those two are PERFECTLY balanced. On my sub account, I have yet to lose a match as Valkyrie, and that's without ever really playing skill shot heroes that aren't Devourer. That is, of course, anecdotal evidence, but come on, if Valkyrie is apparently so hard to play, and that's why she's so strong, how come I can just pick her up and end the game at 25 minutes with a Charged Hammer, Ghost Marchers, and HotbL?

[Salem1]

Actually I think most people in the balance forum think there are long-standing balance problems with old dota heroes like Valkyrie. We acknowledge that all the time. The problems are that 1) we don't know what's going on @ S2 balance 2) nothing is ever done about them. But I wouldn't say that people here think they're fine because you can read stuff like ''...while Valkyrie and *add examples here* keep being OP'' every day.