Balance Dump

[SirVH]

For the beneficts it gives it should cost like 10k >_>

[[f13]SomethingOdd]

Shroud has a 18 second cd, and lasts for 9 seconds, so half the time you can be invis.
Genjuro has a 14 second cd, BUT the cd doesn't do down when invis, so 23 for 9.
With two charges, it's 46 for 18
It's an upgrade for shroud.
For an extra 3000 gold, it doesn't sound too great.

[[f13]SomethingOdd]

Oh another 20 attack speed and 5 dmage.

[[IaF]Skyve]

I wonder if Gladiator might be used more if his Showdown had some additional effect but maxed out at 2 seconds duration (so you can max the skill without problems).

[[f13]SomethingOdd]

Add a sub-spell that allows him to change the length, bind it to his E, perfect fit. (if it's too imba, remove IHNP)

[[IaF]Skyve]

The idea was more to add something that gets him picked on occasion, not just change the 1/2/3/4 seconds duration of his skill

[[f13]SomethingOdd]

Shadowblade buff should help him carry, up to 127 in a stat is huge.

[Brannock]

30 heroes advertised to be patched, 22 get real changes beyond 0.05 stat gain cleanup. 73%. Eh, good job marketing.

Here are my opinions on patch changes because we don't have a patch reception thread yet.

Of those 22:

Buffs:
-Blacksmith: now one of the best level 1 stunners in the game with very efficient Fireball, QoL change with Frenzy.
-Blitz: Ult CD change sorely needed.
-Chronos: Significantly higher damage on Curse gives him a lot stronger early game presence, which is a huge buff for a hard carry. I believe they had a stronger version of this buff tested in SBT and it made him the best hero in the game.
-Defiler: Seriously, try out this change, it makes a very noticeable difference in her damage output later on, and makes her a great candidate to get early levels.
-Hellbringer: Revert to an old nerf that's become no longer relevant in today's game.
-Rhapsody: Meh. Slightly more casts early game.
-Scout: Kraken style Disarm helps his lasthitting slightly and gives him more reliability and predictability in dueling carries. Knowing for a fact that whoever you hit will be disarmed for two seconds indirectly helps his survivability. Vision of target on ult is also a change that shouldn't be overlooked.
-Shadowblade: Meh. Only relevant when you're ulting heroes with more than 100 in a stat. It's a buff to his hard carrying, where he was already really really good at hard carrying.
-Succubus: 305 to 310 moves her from same MS with a lot of solo heroes to slightly faster than them. Combined with a strong autoattack, self-healing, and buffed damage on Heartache makes her a bit more threatening in lane before level 6.

Nerfs:
-Bramble: This is more of a bugfix really.
-Buckley: Slight hit to his early game.
-Demented Shaman: Early cape was ridiculously good and made him one of the very best support picks in the game. He's still great but can't save someone four times a minute anymore with a single point.
-Glacius: There were a lot of 4/4/0/1 builds going around in competitive play because the mana cost buff to his ult and the ult reliability change made pure offensive Glacius really good. Mana cost nerf doesn't change his damage but will help encourage 1/1/4 builds to be seen along with 4/4/0.
-Jeraziah: Stupid ****ing magic immunity.
-Kinesis: Early nerf to on-hit slow encourages him to be put in a solo lane and pushes him away from dual lanes. Nerf to Int gain also makes levels more valuable for him. Stasis Smash change is a huge usability buff and should help encourage builds other than 1/4/4.
-Kraken: No longer a Shrunken Head counter!
-Magmus: Meh. More of a consistency-in-scaling change.
-Ophelia: "Buy Nullfire Blade, it's really good."
-Pebbles: Attack Speed items no longer nearly as effective on Pebbles himself - pushing him towards picking up aura items to benefit his team and less towards shifting into an one-man carry who can do it all. This nerf will have no real impact on Pebbles if you only played him as a burst damage ganker, only to the people who were transitioning into carry mode lategame (especially with his large Str gain and his debuff reduction).
-Plague Rider: Big hit to level 1/2 Contagion slow duration should make it less of a death sentence to be blasted by a Plague when you're out of position.
-Tempest: The bigger change here is the damage on his minions, which will affect his jungling a bit and his pushing power a bit. The nerfs to ult are mostly removing its huge secondary benefits that most people didn't even know existed.
-Valkyrie: Gotta work harder for that level 1 gank with the stun-arrow setup.

No real opinions on mana ring / hellflower changes. Necessary nerfs, really.

Bound Eye changes are great, stops courier ****ery and makes the item a lot less "safe" to use. Indirect buff to invis heroes!

[KeY533]

The idea was more to add something that gets him picked on occasion, not just change the 1/2/3/4 seconds duration of his skill

I think it would be nice if Showdown deals minor damage 1 would be enough just because some guys with fast reactions doesn't pk out before hitting the stun. But I think it's nice to have 4 seconds duration with some practice you will nearly allways hit your Pitfall anyways.. But first of all, Showdown gives huge vision on use which many people seem to forget/ignore okay it's not allways usefull but sometimes it can be very nice against someone who wants to juke and it helps him juking aswell, but I never understood why it has 30 seconds CD it's just way to much. The Gladiators manapool is so low it wouldn't be broken if it has the same Cd as his Pitfall atleast i think so. And maybe Showdown should give him truevision on the target or it could maybe slow or something. But in my Opinion, it would be much more beneficial if his Flagellation had lower Cd in early levels.

[LordTroll]

30 heroes advertised to be patched, 22 get real changes beyond 0.05 stat gain cleanup. 73%. Eh, good job marketing.

Nerfs:
-Bramble: This is more of a bugfix really.
-Buckley: Slight hit to his early game.
-Demented Shaman: Early cape was ridiculously good and made him one of the very best support picks in the game. He's still great but can't save someone four times a minute anymore with a single point.
-Glacius: There were a lot of 4/4/0/1 builds going around in competitive play because the mana cost buff to his ult and the ult reliability change made pure offensive Glacius really good. Mana cost nerf doesn't change his damage but will help encourage 1/1/4 builds to be seen along with 4/4/0.
-Jeraziah: Stupid ****ing magic immunity.
-Kinesis: Early nerf to on-hit slow encourages him to be put in a solo lane and pushes him away from dual lanes. Nerf to Int gain also makes levels more valuable for him. Stasis Smash change is a huge usability buff and should help encourage builds other than 1/4/4.
-Kraken: No longer a Shrunken Head counter!
-Magmus: Meh. More of a consistency-in-scaling change.
-Ophelia: "Buy Nullfire Blade, it's really good."
-Pebbles: Attack Speed items no longer nearly as effective on Pebbles himself - pushing him towards picking up aura items to benefit his team and less towards shifting into an one-man carry who can do it all. This nerf will have no real impact on Pebbles if you only played him as a burst damage ganker, only to the people who were transitioning into carry mode lategame (especially with his large Str gain and his debuff reduction).
-Plague Rider: Big hit to level 1/2 Contagion slow duration should make it less of a death sentence to be blasted by a Plague when you're out of position.
-Tempest: The bigger change here is the damage on his minions, which will affect his jungling a bit and his pushing power a bit. The nerfs to ult are mostly removing its huge secondary benefits that most people didn't even know existed.
-Valkyrie: Gotta work harder for that level 1 gank with the stun-arrow setup.

No real opinions on mana ring / hellflower changes. Necessary nerfs, really.

Bound Eye changes are great, stops courier ****ery and makes the item a lot less "safe" to use. Indirect buff to invis heroes!

Really good analysis on the nerfs mostly, I agree with pretty much everything. I quite liked them.

[[eR]Ekamo]

You are missing out on all the FUN guys

[[f13]SomethingOdd]

I knew scout didn't get nerfed, in fact it seemed like a buff.

[Hubaris]

What did I just read?

jackiechan.jpg

[[f13]SomethingOdd]

I suggest we pull out of the webssite, and make our own forums, safe from GB whenever a hero they like gets nerfed.

[skeloperch]

I suggest we pull out of the webssite, and make our own forums, safe from GB whenever a hero they like gets nerfed.

I can start a general on /vg/ if someone would bump it every hour or two.

[[eR]Ekamo]

I suggest we pull out of the webssite, and make our own forums, safe from GB whenever a hero they like gets nerfed.

http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/sh...ce-IRC-Channel

Where do you think all the laughing at the rage-storm is mainly going on? ^^

[[GR]XFlame]

Or you could just not read Gen Disc at all, like any sane person would.

[ajk]

What the **** is wrong with mk!!!!!

[Alten]

I knew scout didn't get nerfed, in fact it seemed like a buff.

It was a buff. His laning ability has been drastically improved, and the effect on his overall dps is negligible. The synergy with flurry is obvious, and he can now reliably disarm a hero for a significant amount of time. The guaranteed crit also allows for some interesting things like a shroud or a genjuro, though I really doubt it's actually now viable to acquire them on scout.

[skeloperch]

It was a buff. His laning ability has been drastically improved, and the effect on his overall dps is negligible. The synergy with flurry is obvious, and he can now reliably disarm a hero for a significant amount of time. The guaranteed crit also allows for some interesting things like a shroud or a genjuro, though I really doubt it's actually now viable to acquire them on scout.

Shroud should probably be picked up after Runed Cleaver on Scout. Critting for about 700/800 and then having Flurry to catch right back up is pretty strong.