Balance Dump

[[SBT]Tedde]

It is not removed in DotA2 btw.

[changlingbob]

Yeah, attack ranges are in dota 2, just not displayed by default

[PzKw]

You havnt done that yet? ...

I really felt bad, because he was pretty much already talking to himself without realising it. He's been ignore listed by at least 90% of the semi-regular posters here, and I had this horrible image of a little kid pulling at the trousers of grown ups in a conversation and talking, only to not even be acknowledged, so instead, going and having a full blown tea party conversation with stuffed animals and growing up to be a timid social retard.

But I'm over it now. He hasn't made a post that wasn't either completely incorrect or too far from the actual topic of conversation to be useful in as long as I can remember.

And nothing of value was lost.

[[eR]Ekamo]

It is not removed in DotA2 btw.

Yeah, attack ranges are in dota 2, just not displayed by default

My bad then, didn't know that.

[[GM]Cyber_Kun]

Hey, I still like Skeloperch. He tries to improve, and that is a rare quality here.

I am never going to ignore him!

[[eR]Ekamo]

Or you just don't ignore people and be nice, like me .

Report inappropriate or plain out bad posts. I'll try to keep deleting posts that bring nothing to threads but hard to keep up sometimes.

Can we please get back on any sort of topic, regarding the game we're all playing, instead of flaming other users?

K, ty.

[[f13]`11411181]

Stupidity or repeated lack of understanding isn't reportable.

[changlingbob]

Neither is refusal to listen to cogent arguments.

[skeloperch]

Hey, I still like Skeloperch. He tries to improve, and that is a rare quality here.

I am never going to ignore him!

<3

Also, on the randomness thing, I at least think MM's crit and SB's crit should get reworked. Scout's I'm a little on the fence about because of how powerful it is, but meh.

[PzKw]

Most of the problems with randomness that keep being brough up could have been solved ages ago with a PRD model similar to DotA's. This was one of the biggest areas that I felt S2 cut off the nose to spite the face. The fact is that PRD worked very well, and refusing to substitute the systems we've been through for PRD was an example of refusing to pick a better solution because 1: DotA had it and 2: Purely on paper, a proper randomness system was as good or better, so in the almighty quest to outdo DotA, HoN couldn't be seen to retain "Heirloom mechanics".

If I had a dollar for every heirloom mechanic that S2 should have ported, but didn't because they didn't understand the underlying reasons why it existed, I could probably pay all my traffic offenses for the Christmas period. >: (

Edit: DotA/WC3 replace as necessary.

[[LsE]Hsssh]

What is this PRD you speaking about?

[Lethe]

pseudo-random

[PzKw]

Pseudorandom Distribution.

As an example, an ability that in DotA says "5Y chance to deal a 2x crit on hit" will actually accross multiple hits have:

1Y on the first hit
3Y on the second hit
4Y on the third hit
6Y on the fourth hit
8Y on the fifth hit
10Y on the sixth hit

And if you hit, it reverts to the start of the number sequence...

Blah blah blah, I'm making the numbers up, but it's the general gist. You have a lower chance than the stated amount on the early hits, and a higher amount after the average number of hits it should have taken. This prevents chains of procs and chains of misses... Doesn't exist on all chance based abilities (some have true random distribution a la HoN)...

Where I first started looking into it was when HoN was having trouble with its randomness distribution and was habitually landing chains of procs, which was actually a serious problem with CH and Thunderclaw because it would never proc, then proc 3-5 times in a row on a high IAS hero, and nearly instantly win a teamfight (and often the game)... Because this never happened in my tens of thousands of games of DotA, and statistically should have been highly improbably, and was happening fairly frequently, I looked into it more... Not that PRD is a secret in DotA, it's well known to most people who know anything about mechanics, I just hadn't counted on HoN adopting an alternative that swung the other way. Afaik, the new randomness model avoids this phenomena.....

[[LsE]Hsssh]

Oh, was aware of that mechanic in dota, just didn't know what it was called. Thanks for clarification.

[pewpewstar]

Might as well rename this forum to 'shitty pub anecdotes forum'

[PzKw]

Holy ****ing ****, every game I've had today, undone by teams with no apparent concept of what's going on.

Every. Single. One.

[Skyve]

Attack Damage Range
By differentiating harassing and killing with last-hitting you can give a hero different purposes with a spread attack damage. Balances out a lot of heroes that would be with a static base damage extremely strong in the laning phase. In this case I can see the argument for RNG creating more diverse game play since a last-hit battle should never be decided only on the hero with the highest base damage but also on skill.

If you read through that, do you not realize that that is complete bullshit? How does randomness create more diverse gameplay or make the whole thing any more skill reliant?

[[f13]`11411181]

You must overcome randomness with surety aka overplan something. This is a gameplay trait that fosters absolutes, as opposed to 'hope for the best, owell gg random'

[BustaBust]

fix gemini u fkn retards

[Skyve]

You must overcome randomness with surety aka overplan something. This is a gameplay trait that fosters absolutes, as opposed to 'hope for the best, owell gg random'

You'd still have to do that with static numbers... and it doesn't have anything to do with randomness.