I've been playing a reasonable amount of geomancer lately, and I feel the hero really needs some significant changes to be even in-line with most other heroes in the game currently. Here are my thoughts on his skills and innate abilities:
1. Melee: Geomancer is I think the third melee intelligence hero in the game (correct me if i'm wrong here), and as most of us know, there is good reason that there are not many intelligence heroes with the melee restriction. The fact that he is melee severely limits his abilities to farm early in the game and makes autoattacking with this hero pretty much completely unviable in team fights (which is significant when you consider how much damage can be dealt in early skirmishes by a hero such as witch slayer just in autoattacks).
2. Attack Animation: Not much needs to be said, geomancer has an absolutely atrocious attack animation.
3. Skill 1, Dig: This is a great, powerful skill. About on par in power level to mag's slide, perhaps even more powerful. Great initiation tool, good damage, everything about this skill is first class.
4. Skill 2, Quicksand: Quicksand is a powerful skill as well, but it is not as universally good as dig. It has a reasonably small AOE so it is doubtful you will catch more than 1 person in it, but it casts quickly so you usually are able to at least hit one person. The slow itself is extremely powerful, but no damage is dealt and most heroes are just going to step out of it and take the slow and continue on in the fight.
5. Skill 3, Earth's Grasp: I am sorry, but I just think this skill is beyond terrible. If the hero you cast it on doesn't have boots then maybe you will hit them with the full damage of the effect, which is pretty bad by the way. The AOE on the ability seems very small, and the total damage dealt is pretty terrible. The fact that any hero with boots can basically avoid ALL of the damage just makes this skill pure trash. This skill is in need of a big change.
6. Skill 4, Crystal Field: For an ultimate, this thing is just underwhelming. 2 seconds is a lifetime to wait in a teamfight where people can see where you have positioned the skill. The damage dealt, just buffed, is still negiligible at higher levels. I really believe that this is currently one of the worst ultimates in the game. Any competent person is just going to avoid it, and if you are able to chain stun the person inside of it long enough to get it to hit them, well they are almost definitely already dead.
Here are possible areas of improvement:
2. Earth's grasp made better.
3. Crystallization field modified.
4. Hero turned to Primary Str attribute
My feeling is that this hero needs some significant buffs to become at all viable. What do others think?
Last edited by burntchomsky; 10-03-2011 at 04:42 PM.
There should be a Geomancer thread, and I've only played him about three or four times, so I can't write one that's neutral or within perspective.
Please, do not focus on suggestions discussion. Focus on what's wrong with the hero, if anything.
I wrote an entire post on Geomancer but it was apparently lost in the shuffle of the last patch. I can't find any way to see my text either, which is a shame.
However, it was basically the same. To elaborate on some of the reasons that Earth's Grasp is terrible:
- It rarely manages to get its damage off on the target. Simply moving negates it entirely. Even with his slow and stun, it rarely goes off for any worthwhile amount of damage.
- Damage over time is intrinsically weaker than instant damage, due to opportunity to heal (regen, allies, rune of blight, etc).
- The cooldown is far, far too long.
- It's horrible for farming. If a creep dies while under the effects of the skill, then the effect no longer occurs. The low damage makes it unreliable for last hitting creeps as well.
While the recent damage buff is a positive change, Crystal Field has its own problems:
- Radius is way too small for team fights, if you hit a single hero with it you are lucky.
- Visible to enemies makes it too easy to dodge...
- Especially when combined with the 3 seconds of delay. 3 seconds is an eternity in HoN.
- Not superior-magic
Also, visually, his head remains static when he's walking, and it looks stiff, unfinished, and amateur. His standing animation where he swallows a beach ball every 1 second is atrocious and should be a rare animation if anything, not the default. Shoddy, incomplete work.
Risk vs Reward. All of his abilities are dodgeable skillshots with very bad numbers.
> His stun is similar in damage and duration to Magnus, but is much easier to avoid at long range
> His DOT does about half the damage of impalement in ideal conditions, but will never hit an attentive player unlike impalement
> His ultimate does almost half the damage of magnus ult, but basically requires a long initiating stun like tempest to gaurantee a hit.
Unlike other borderline heros, I just can't see where this hero is supposed to fit in the current game. He's the equivalent of a third string quarterback as far as initiators go.
Agree on all points above, geo is a melee int with horrible attack animation and stat gain (atleast comapred to para/bs).
His ultimate has the biggest delay in the game(correct me if am wrong), and its even visible to the enemy team. Unlike gladiators pitfall and deadwoods grasp. Its alot more powerfull ofc, but still, its a thing to be noted of.
It's definitely possible if you know how to play well.
Earth's Grasp is more or less trash, a skill that only shines in the first 3-6 minutes of the game when people don't have boots. The concept of the skill is there, as you're supposed to use it when they are in your sand pits or stunned/slowed. The problem with the move is that it pings too slowly and can be completely avoided.
It does have one merit, it can wipe a wave in conjunction with Dig, which allows him to farm quite well.
EDIT: Someone says its terrible, but it can actually get you the whole wave in most instances.
His first two skills have great versatility and can be used in many ways (to escape, block paths with pits, trap people in for an ultimate, isolate), whereas Grasp has one narrow use. The skill encourages people to move in sandpit, which is good and bad, but you will hardly notice the damage it deals. Having the skill to either activate faster, or punish movement (like his other skills which force the user to decide what fate they must have) would synergize well within his ultimate and pits.
Overall, he has strengths which aren't used to full potential as he requires an ally slot dedicated to him to maximize his uses. Not OP or UP overall, but Grasp is very lackluster.
Semi off topic, but what happened to his original E skill? IIRC it allowed him to pull people and lunge around, keeping them in the pits and the ultimate.
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I have played Geomancer quite a bit and I feel he suffers from having 4 underpowered skills with good concepts. His stat gain and attack animation are fine as he is a support/ganker hero and does not need great stat gain or animation.
His dig is alright, the major problem with this skill seems to be the slow speed at which it travels. Speeding this up would also prove problematic because it would make stunning people at melee range very hard. I feel this skill would be acceptable as is if his other abilities were not so mediocre.
The Quicksand is nice because of its cast time but realistically it only slows one hero for about 2 seconds and no one ever tries to attack in it making the secondary effect almost negligible. A quick fix to make this spell worth using would be to make it having a small pull like Kraken's ultimate but obviously a little less powerful.
His third skill Earth's Grasp is really not as bad as people make it out to be but is also the worst spell in the game, if that makes any sense. It can be used to farm creep waves and it does do 400 damage if all ticks hit which is devastating before the enemy hero gets boots, then it does around 64 damage on average assuming they get hit with a couple bursts while moving around.
It is possible to have the target take full damage with this even if they have boots if you time your dig and quicksand correctly or if they are stunned to begin with. Unfortunately this simply is a lot of restrictions needed to just deal 300-400 damage over 5 seconds to a hero.
A fix i would suggest would be to make the first tick that hits the hero do 25/50/75/100 damage then each subsequent tick that actually hits deal 25 less damage bottoming out at 25. This way it will gurantee some reasonable damage is dealt.
His ultimate is the most annoying thing in the world to use. While the recent damage buff has made it seem not complete trash it still takes a whole 3 seconds to go off and has a surprisingly small AOE. Either make the countdown 2 seconds or make the AOE larger imo. Or redo the ult entirely because as is it is quite boring all around.
He relies on Quicksand/Dig to get the most out of Earth's Grasp/Crystal Field. The problem is that these skills are either all or nothing, reliant on the former two. A larger AoE on Quicksand would do wonders for him.
I find geomancer is a melee disruptor that is forced into buying to much survivability to support or to actively gank like other supports or gankers.
his stat gains are great and a mana ring is without a doubt inifinite mana for him. but after helm, boots, and mana ring your pretty much on geo's drop off point which is pretty severe. his E is completely negated by this time, his Dig is lowering in damage, and his quick sand is probally not strong enough yet if you went the dps route of Earth + dig for more lane pressure early on.
it seems every game I play him this drop off never evens out. I just end up having to buy more and more survival items and I watch my damage get lower and lower. in the end I wind up being nothing more than a dig every 10 secs and a slow. I don't find other supports or gankers suffering as much by this. I never see a support like polly or witch unable to build more team boosting items although sacrificing their surviabily as much. I don't see gankers melting as easily while they build their spell shards and codexes. For geomancer spell shards hellflowers etc are out of the picture you spend enough time building one of these times and most of the game you will spend dead. His armor is horrendous and he has nothing between him and the opponent to mitigate this besides stacking mitigation and regen.
As an example between him and other gankers. I faced a pyro running away from a team fight. I dug into them quick sanded into an earths grasp and ulted around him. He however out ran roughly 3 of the crystal burst and completely out ran my ultimate. Most of my setup damage was completely avoided very easily. He on the other hand turn around and uses his dragon stun pyro waves and his ultimate and I drop instantly. The same can be said about a fight in the woods vs a guantlet I get the jump on him aswell he avoids almsot half my combo and unleashes his full arsenal and almost drops me( saved by an ally).
Both guantlet and pyro can be considered reliable gankers with reliable damage geomancer can not. His damage isn't high enough to put much fear into anyone after the laning phase level 6+ and it is very easy to avoid.
in short his weakness are:
severe damage drop off mid game onward.
easy to avoid skill set whose damage is not justified for being so
low survivablity( horrible armor)
skills of a ganker but not enough reliable damage to do so
forced into support but not enough gold to stay alive and support at the same time.
I like the hero He is very fun to play( honestly a great desighn job and cool spell effects). I have tanked 400 mmr points on him and gained them back and tanked them again( he like my old Balph crush really.....) but he is not okay the way he is even more so then other heroes I've played with defects.
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Ive played him a bit lately
Found the best way to play him is pretty much to babysit him and let him get mega tanky so he can stay in teamfights for ages (then again, how many heroes are bad if you do this lol)
I'd like to see the effects of E needing more distance covered/higher movement speed needed to avoid its damage. When he was first introduced, and there was the scripting error where you couldn't outrun E's damage - he was good but ultimately not gamebreaking from my limited experiences.
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I'd like to see his E reworked into something else. It's just terrible at the moment. Kind of fits the whole AoE/teamfight presence, but I just don't see the point of skilling it past lvl 1 for some early extra harass until much later, and you'll only really get any damage out of it if the person is chain stunned.
His ultimate could use a minor buff. Maybe if the E is reworked into something useful, I'd keep it as is.
I support 100% turning Geomancer into a tank. His role would actually work if he was.
3rd skill is completely useless past the laning phase (or basically once they get boots). The ultimate is iffy, landing it is annoyingly difficult and there are other skills that can do something similar or better instantly.
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The hero is weak. Right now he serves only as a follow-up initiator and a bad crowd controller.
1) Dig. Is he supposed to get PK so he can double tap it afterwards and stun that small circle? The skill should be invisible to enemies, so that they see him dig but don't know were he is going.
2) Quicksand: Too small... Too fast... Too bad. Blunt skill. (Funny: give him Warlock's Upheaval.)
3) Grasp: This tried to be innovative "A dot/pulse that follows people around? Brilliant!" ...not. It has its uses, but if you skill it early, once your opponents get boots you are gimped.
4) Ulti: Pretty flashy. Needs a Hellbringer/Tempest blah blah to set it up.
I really don't see how they thought he could substitute for other staple ganger picks, the way he is now.
Oh dear god just rework him.
You need a basic understanding of the game to look at what this hero offers and realize that he is bad.
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I can't wait to see a balance thread for Magmus where people say he's a bad hero because he's a melee and steam bath and volcanic touch are bad.
Geomancer seems to me to be about as strong as Magmus - maybe a little bit weaker, but he's not portal key dependent so he's not a liability in that regard. His ultimate doesn't dominate teamfights in the same way Magmus' does, but his ganking is better (imo) because he has two disables (and dig has longer range)
Last edited by PRETENT10uS; 10-04-2011 at 08:44 AM.
1. He's melee.
2. He's squishy.
3. He's mana dependent with a tiny manapool.
4. Dig is incredibly easy to dodge.
5. Earth's Grasp is terrible in every way. Get stats.
6. His ult has a tiny ass aoe that is impossible to reliably get off with a 3 second delay.
His only redeeming quality is Quicksand. Dig isn't awful, it's only awful with the whole package in mind. Rework Earth's Grasp into something useful and if nothing else make his ult superior magic and he might be pretty good.
I feel like his problems can be summed up in one sentence.
Earth's Grasp and Crystal Field both rely on his other skills to hit and are still underwhelming if they connect.
Ignoring it's farming capabilities, Grasp is basically a single target 400 damage dot if all ticks manage to hit. That's pretty awful for a skill that does nothing else.
The most annyoing thing is that it's usually the best choice to put more than 1 level in during laning, yet it becomes useless and obsolete just a few minutes later into the game.
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