[2.1.10] Drunken Master

[[DRD]china]

From my little experience with him, I think he has the potential to be really really broken. I feel like he's a little savage diamond waiting to be discovered, and then nerfed heavily. I say this if only because of the current state of bulwark/deso and his capacity to really use these items.

Time will only tell!

[Rollei]

From my little experience with him, I think he has the potential to be really really broken. I feel like he's a little savage diamond waiting to be discovered, and then nerfed heavily. I say this if only because of the current state of bulwark/deso and his capacity to really use these items.

Time will only tell!

I also believe that, i owned some games with him, once one of my teamates got sol's and i got Deso i was one shoting (or almost) a lot of people with his stun.

But that doesn't adress his problem, his drinking ... it is the most boring mechanic ever and really slows him down in ganks. Buff his drinking and debuff his ult, he does not need the 75% IAS.

I read a pretty good suggestion in the thread, make all levels of drink add a flat 16 charges, you could store up to 30 charges, levels in drink increase the regen and decrease cooldown. Your skills would not consume charges anymore, instead you would only need to have that number of charges to have the buff, no more charges from alies deaths the decrease CD and increased cap in charges would be enough to keep him drunk in mid game with more levels in drink.

What about moving his IAS from his ult to his drink? 2% IAS for every charge? That would sum a max of 60% IAS. Maybe slow the degen on charges? Drinking is boring and should be minimized or reworked completely.

Any thoughts?

[[IaF]Skyve]

From my little experience with him, I think he has the potential to be really really broken. I feel like he's a little savage diamond waiting to be discovered, and then nerfed heavily. I say this if only because of the current state of bulwark/deso and his capacity to really use these items.

Time will only tell!

Well, Testie did get both of these items on him and proceeded to two-shot people, but it was in a low bracket, and it does take time to farm up that stuff, and he just isn't as good as most heroes until he gets that stuff, especially because he doesn't farm that well.

[[ScBr]MadPsycho]

I guess I should chime in on a thread that I more or less wanted started.

Drunken master serves largely as a physical damage dealer and a tank (for lack of a better word) in team fights, able to disable one enemy for a short period of time. The only problem is that he requires constant upkeep in the form of drink to be useful, and it's also channeling. Furthermore, since his damage is physical in nature he loses effectiveness as the game goes on unless -armor items are gotten/-armor abilities are used. Yeah, he can potentially do a lot of damage if he gets -armor items like shieldbreaker or sol's, but so can a lot of other heroes that can do his job better by doing some significant aoe damage, such as Kraken, Armadon, Panda, and Pestilence, to name a few.

He needs something to put him on par with other heroes. His ultimate is great and lasts a whopping 10 seconds at level 3, but the most effective part of it is the nullstone effect, and smart opponents will simply avoid casting spells on him for the duration. Stagger and Lunge also scale linearly with his attack damage as X + A, instead of having a scalar multiplier like Panda, a hero he is perhaps most equatable to.

[[VGG]Glibber`]

Definately a strong hero, can't tell yet though if he's imbalanced.. Seems to fit in a lot of lineups and his q in lane is just awesome. His mana usage seems pretty balanced.

And gg if you run for his whole ult duration, i think it's pretty strong. I mean, you stagger and lunge combo on someone.. they have to waste stuff on you because if they don't you kick someone into your team.


I don't know why you guys complain about his charges, you don't even need them to do useful stuff.. and at later level it's just not hard at all to keep up. I'd skip the charges untill you get at least 2-3 levels (maybe even max them out first, but im still fooling around with builds on him) in q and e, way more useful imho. (better to save your mana for those 2 skills imo)
Drunken charges are pretty useless at lvl 1-2 though. They fall off so quickly, it's basically a mana for hp swap (this might be intended, don't know).

He has SUCH strong skills on such a low cooldown, I don't know why you guys wanna buff him. This hero is like monkey king on steroids, Mk MkII.

(gonna play him a lot more coming time and see if he's OP.. this guy just has a lot of *hey try to stop me or else I'm gonna get one of your team killed* -> *oh you tried to stop me? I'm sorry.. can't stop me ^^* going for him)


tldr: Definately not in need of a buff. Though I guess the channeling time or something on charges could use some scaling (or they rethink the whole scaling of it w/e).

[crowblue]

he's too powerful, mainly because of his ability to skip survivability items

his ult makes him very hard for most teams to target, so he can just get bulwark and shieldbreaker. With these items he does incredible damage and is outstanding at killing support heroes

the damage on Q should be reduced, and his ult cooldown should be increased

I very rarely lose games when I pick him

[[ScBr]MadPsycho]

After playtesting skipping the survivability items and going straight to shieldbreaker and sol's gotta say he is probably just fine, with the exception of the highly irritating drink mechanic that doesn't last nearly long enough. He just sobers up way too fast.

[[SyCF]torand]

I love drunken master, but I don't think that he is really balanced, and I agree that the drink mechanic (The fact that you have to stop) is less fun than it could be.

One of the big things I find about him is that he is hard as hell to harass out of a lane 1v1 if he is leveling drink at all. At level 2 drink, you can accrue enough charges to last the cooldown duration, which gives him 25 / 3 = 8.33 (+2.0 base with the recent melee regen change) = 10.3 health regen at level 3. Just for reference, Ra with level 2 of Ashes to Ashes and a :Lifetube: has 9.0 regen.


I made a suggestion regarding Drink when they originally asked for feedback when he came out that I feel would make it more fun, but not really change unbalance it. From (Suggestion, not really balance discussion ensues)

Channeling Time: 0.2 Seconds
Mana Cost: 50
Cooldown: 20.0 Seconds
Required Level: 1 / 3 / 5 / 7

Activation
On use, channels for up to 2 seconds. Each second, you gain 2 / 4 / 6 / 8 Drunk charges.

Drunk charges wear off 1 every 3 seconds and heal you for 25 health when this happens. If an enemy hero within 500 distance dies, you gain 2 / 4 / 6 / 8 Drunk charges. Max of 20 charges.

To

Channeling Time: 0.2 Seconds
Mana Cost: 50
Cooldown: 20.0 Seconds
Required Level: 1 / 3 / 5 / 7

Activation
On use, applies Drinking to self for 3 seconds.

Drinking Effects
Disarmed. Gain 2/3/4/5 Drunk charges per second.

Drunk charges wear off 1 every 3 seconds and heal you for 20 health when this happens. If an enemy hero within 500 distance dies, you gain 2 / 4 / 6 / 8 Drunk charges. Max of 20 charges.

Now, the fact that I think he is slightly overpowered might be influenced by the fact that my win percentage with him is 86%, and that I just went 21/0 with him though (Mind you in the 1600-1700 bracket). http://replays.heroesofnewerth.com/m...p?mid=63819921

[[PIKK]Rabbagast]

I don't think everyone understands how powerful drink is. It is 25 health every 3 seconds which is about same as ra's passive. the mana cost is low as well.
My point is that he can really take a lot of harass. My problem with him is that he obviously gains alot from levels and he can stand in mid forever practically, but he is really awful to gank with until lvl 8 or even 9 with my build (1,3,4,1). He suffers from the same as flux imo, he really needs to level up several skills before even one of them is useful, which is very different from mid heroes in general and is bad for teamplay.

My other point is the ultimate. Versus some teams this is completely game breaking. at lvl 16 he has a 1/3 of the time permanent nullstone with 40% damage reduction. For drink to be buffed to not annoying he will have to lose something.

[[IaF]Skyve]

Drink isn't weak, it's just impractical to use, which creates a weakness for a hero, especially when he's melee and needs to stand next to someone. The fact that you want to have it on you at all times because it buffs your other skills doesn't really help the skill either.

[[VGG]Glibber`]

Rabbagast, I've been trying shield/hatchet/runes-> bottle mid on him with quite the succes on drunken, skipping w untill q & e are maxxed out. Though you won't be killing every hero you're up against and there are other heros that can use levels as well, this guy is certainly a decent mid. His e helps getting to the rune faster as well.
I can't decide yet if it's a waste to not let him lane with heros like glac/pr/slither etc.


Anyway, herp derp heros like arma and ctulu (auras and aoes) are pretty good vs drunken in teamfights. Gonna play him more still, and find out if there's actually a real/decent counter to drunken.

[Cyrileo]

The one downfall of DM is that he REALLY needs a level advantage to wtf rape people, if he is kept down early game he is quite weak, he really needs phase boots+sols by 15-18 mins to WTFOWN people, but the upside is with Drink and his awesome attack animation he gets last hits easy peasy and is very hard to bully out of a lane.

I'd say the hero is balanced, I personally think drink is fine, maybe have a chance to generate like 1-2 bonus charges if you kill a creep or something but meh, i've no issue with the skill

[[VGG]Glibber`]

Ok, after playing him quite a lot I can tell he really needs that early advantage (either solo lane or some kills/freefarm) to be able to do much. He just can't take over games like certain other heros (ranged semi carries herp derp >.>) can with the same amount of xp/gold.

And there's quite a lot of heros that will aoe him down, regardless of his nullstone and damage reduction. Combine that with the push/aoe fest the metagame is shifting to (in which he doesn't really fit), I'd have to conclude this hero is balanced. Strong in certain areas, definately lacking in others.

But..! Surely a strong hero, stronger than a lot of heros in the pool.. he just doesn't fit in/against certain lineups.


Conclusion: A solid, borderline op, yet situational hero. (haven't seen or played him in trilanes though, wonder if he would fit in there with his kick)

[Triceratops]

Drink totally goes against his whole concept, which is making a flowy hero that is able to dish out damage while jumping around and disjointing everything. That said, he can dish out stupid amounts of dps. The aformentioned bulwark + shieldberaker combo is pretty ridiculous, not to mention an item like riftshards allows his lunge to crit (twice!) while at the same time being very tanky. In fact, the only reason he wasn't seen much competitively was probably because he's melee.

It'd be nice to allow him to move while drinking and be disarmed and silenced while doing so or something. Least you'd feel less vulnerable. His dps can be toned down in exchange for this.

[PurpleCity]

Conclusion: A solid, borderline op, yet situational hero. (haven't seen or played him in trilanes though, wonder if he would fit in there with his kick)

I agree with this. Ive played a ton of drunken recently and he can be ridiculously
good against certain line ups. Aoe stuns can really hinder him in certain situations, but thats probably the only thing that keeps him from being overpowered. He ganks, carries and tanks at a high level and while there are obviously heroes that can gank carry or tank better i dont believe any of them can do them all at the same time with the efficiency that drunken can. Eventually i predict some nerfs heading his way once more people understand his style and see his full potential. Drink really isnt as bad as it used to be and gaining 4 drunk charges when an enemy hero dies near him really helps his endurance in a team fight so in conclusion i will also say borderline op.

[[S2]Dawnbringer]

I don't think he is UP at all. His skill set is quite strong despite his reliance on drunk charges. Lunge is a very powerful skill early, Stagger seems a bit of a filler on its own but combined with drink it can be very powerful. Drink is a little annoying and breaks down the flow considering you have to pause to channel but eh, even then he is quite strong.

[HonkHonkBeep]

In the right line up or counter picked against the right line up, he would seem incredibly OP.

Based on competitive players' streams, some of them seem aware of this and some don't. "S2'd" has become the default excuse for losing to any lineup with an S2 hero in it.

[Hubaris]

Borderline.

Very powerful displacement abilities and physical disables in addition to a very spammable disjoint and repositioning/damage skill. Those are just the two regulars. When taking his Ultimate into account, you now have a force who has a massive resistance to AOE damage (huge strategy still), cannot be targeted (I'm sure you can also disjoint via his Ultimate) and can block projectiles.

With massive survivability, why would you even want to focus him down? Oh wait, because his skills become more spammy, his Lunge scales, and his low CDs in fights can ensure he can crush squishies and problematic people while the real carry can go in.

For great power in his 3 skills, he has to give in some where, and thus Drink was born. If a fight goes well, Drink is inconsequential and if it doesn't go well, he gets punished for it. Yes, Drink is garbage until level 3 and 4, but that is what makes him a midgame carry and a late game pain in the $^#@.

I don't feel that an initiator role is what he is, he is more of a ganker/midgame snowball semi-carry.

Oh, and has it been mentioned that he rips certain popular lineups and disables to shreds? As a personal note, he has a lot of potential, just the comp. scene has yet to really shine the dirt off the diamond and decide to put it down and go carve the shining PR, Polly etc. that they currently have.

[[Hwt]HappyMuslim]

Yeh... I was, for a lack of better words, shocked that people called a super tank that is always hasted and has the ability to 2 shot support UP. I also don't quite understand how people complain about his drink charges. Personally, I feel like it keeps him in check, similiar to SS and his souls. I've never even had a problem with drink myself sooo.

Don't change this hero please he's already broken. Has a decent farming mechanic, is damn near impossible to harass out of lane, and has crazy kill potential with his rambo-like-playstyle. 10 second null + haste = $$$?

Edit: Jesus not to mention his disjoint and ability to push enemy heroes back into you're team or away from a rune. Jesus yall are crazy. <3 S2 I can honestly say that if they keep adding heroes like DB, MK, Midas, etc I won't be going to dota 2. Bet nooone have ever heard that before.

[Oceanic`815]

I love . Drink + Stagger = Impossible to gank or run away from. Built in health regen and damage boost. 1.5 sec stun with ability to knock back in any direction while dealing enhanced damage AND slowing. Quite the DPS on this hero. He is good at all levels of the game. Once he gets picked more don't be surprised by cries of OP... I don't think he's OP. He is a strong hero that requires decent farm to take over the mid to late game.
Here I am smurfing on him just to try him out:

Moving over to my main account:


Not saying this proves anything but I've found success in solo MM with this hero.