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Rofl at OK 15min CC against SGTYOriginally Posted by sharpcat
sharpcat clearly isnt so sharp.
burn . . .
What you seem to forget when counting prize money is that the tournaments that have been played in the last 3 months have either: been play-offs for tournaments started AGES ago where new teams have not been able to have a chance to prove themselves (including sGty who are a relatively new team), or qualifiers for new playoffs with little to no prize money. Teams formed during the "void" of hon tournament activity have no way to measure up to other teams in tournament earnings; does that make them a worse team even if they beat them daily? Tournament results are one way to look at it, collective opinion from people who actually know what they are talking about is another. Personally, i reckon the daily/weekly strength of a team compared to others is a better measure of their skill for upcoming tournaments as it is, you know, most likely how they will play in that tournament. As long as you justify how you collect data for your rankings theres no wrong. Jah's rankings (if they're still updated) features results, these ratings feature opinoin on a more daily basis. I don't see anything wrong in having both rankings to go off or compare.
Last edited by izzystradlin; 09-16-2011 at 02:33 AM.
electrician
@sharpcat
You act as if the arena that is competitive gaming is anywhere near as standardized and methodical as any single professional sport. In light of lack of standardization, and a real pool of data to draw from, opinion > incorrectly applied data. There is no league which contains all these great teams, as there are multiple leagues for soccer, for basketball, etc.
Are you able to fetch all tournament data for MSI, including their early incarnations with Steelrasp [?], Rexi, Trixi?No standardized practice of collecting data? Yes there is. Its called recording tournmanent performances. The whole underlying purpose of competitive HON is to win tournaments, so that should obviously be the defining measure of a team's rank, where applicable.
Do you look at your data in way of seasons? What about teams that have broken up or otherwise disappeared from the scene? How about wins in any recorded tournament? Teams that changed names or reformed? Does pre-release iteration of [5]/[WHP] outrank anyone then? Or is that sort of data invalid?
Simply said, data with a small scope is worthless. Counting dollars does nothing to validate your reasoning. Best performance != dollars accumulated, and performance can only be effectively measured on a seasonal basis. You can't so casually say "Wellp, I'm going to just count the data from the last 3 months", since the competitive scene's activity is volatile and constantly fluctuating. The tournaments and matches that occupy a team's time is largely restricted by the number of tournaments, regionally or internationally, as well as the time of year.
This does not even take into account the slew of other things that can skew such small-scale data. Hell, look at GosuGamers.com and you'll see that sGty didn't even get fed their wins from xFin when we changed names. Rankings are garbage. Data is garbage unless pulled from a large pool.
Last edited by Happyfish; 09-16-2011 at 02:50 PM.
Your old idea/rankingsystem was so much better... WHY DID YOU THROW IT AWAY?! That system was based on facts and would have been epic in a few months, you've made me sad
Honcast basicly have this you know... why why why why why why >.<
The pool of data is actual tournament results. Why do you seem intent on categorically dismissing this?
So you want me to go back to the 5/WHP era for considerations of who may be the current top team in HON? I don't even understand. You do realize that none of the current teams even existed that far back, and nor do the teams you invoke? Its a pointless exercise.Are you able to fetch all tournament data for MSI, including their early incarnations with Steelrasp [?], Rexi, Trixi?
Do you look at your data in way of seasons? What about teams that have broken up or otherwise disappeared from the scene? How about wins in any recorded tournament? Teams that changed names or reformed? Does pre-release iteration of [5]/[WHP] outrank anyone then? Or is that sort of data invalid?
Simply said, data with a small scope is worthless.
And there is no such thing as a 'season' in HON. As you say, things are dynamic, teams come and go all the time. However, a -good- team will stay together for some time, certainly more than three months, and I think therefore three months is a reasonable amount of time in which monitor team performance and make deductions.
If Team A dominates for six months, and some new team comes out of nowhere and pummels them, does that make them better automatically? No. Because consistency and stability are hallmarks of good teams.
Make no mistake, I think EZ is a great team and could indeed be number one in a month or two if they prove themselves dominant in the interim. But proclaiming them BEST TEAM IN THE WORLD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! because they've won some scrims against top teams who have been at the top for months (MSI, OK) is really just the epitomy of stupidity, and whether or not the person who makes such a judgement is really good at playing HON is insignificant.
epitomy
Not saying MSI/OK arent top teams, but you keep referring to how they've been it for months (which is a normal/good indicator of stability and dominance) - the only problem is there have been literally no tournaments in the last couple of months to play. That is changing right now.
electrician
Thx to EU community for recognizing sharpcat as dullcat.
dam dis tred is wal of tekst
holy shat tlldr
No tournaments in last few months...lol.
you seem incredibly dumb, im not gonna bother explaining a third time
electrician
this thread obviously needs more berethorn to back up notsosharpcat
Scrim dont mean shiit. Its all about tournament results, you know, performing when you have to.
Its been summer, thats why there were little to no tournaments. The only reason teams like sgty are hot right now is because they've been playing the whole summer whereas other top teams settled down and enjoyed their summer.
For example, msi hasnt played together for like 2 months, but the last 2 weeks they've been active again (on the weekends with scrims). Sure they've lost a scrim here and there, does it matter? no its doesnt caz its a scrim. We'll see how things stand when the big tournaments arrive and where all teams compete. But making rankings based on qualifiers or minor tournaments where not every "big team" is competing is just pointless.
you are good at this
Yeah my grammar is horrible deal with it.
best post ever
Just wait for DHW/NASL and you will see who the bests teams are, when money is on the line.
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