Midas Spell Damage Output

[[S2]MacroHard]

Assumptions
You do not get additional bounce damage from Golden Salvo.
You do not get additional damage from healing allies with Lion's Pride.
You do not hit a target with both departure and arrival damage on Elemental Warp.
You always get ult at level 6, if only for the 2 second stun.

Formulas:
Golden Salvo Damage = 60 + 40*Level
100/140/180/220
Lion's Pride Damage = 30 + 45*Level
75/120/165/210
Elemental Warp Damage = 50 + 30*Level
80/110/140/170
Transmute Damage = 50*Level
50/100/150
Golden Salvo Mana = 80 + 20*Level
100/120/140/160
Lion's Pride Mana = 90 + 10*Level
100/110/120/130
Elemental Warp Mana = 100
100/100/100/100
Trasmute Mana = 0
0/0/0

Damage Chart

Damage shown is after mitigation.
Maximum damage output for each level is highlighted in blue.

[[S2]MacroHard]

Even though the assumptions are heavy (no bonus damage from bounces), I strongly suggest deviating from the default Midas guide and instead maximize Lion's Pride first.

Maxing Lion's Pride before Golden Salvo gives:
-more damage
-less mana cost
-your main damage skill has a lower cooldown
-side benefit of providing a beefy AOE heal for allies

My recommended build is therefore
3 / 1 / 2 / 2 / 2 / 4 / 2 / 1 / 1 / 1 / 4 / 3 / 3 / 3

[[J4K]DJDavyDave]

ya after the first time i played midas, lions pride is DEFINITELY my "max asap" skill

[[S2]MacroHard]

The default guides are rarely optimal nowadays. =(

[[noBM]SupahNoob]

3 first is stupid unless you're solo or expect a lvl1 gank. Always get 1 for the slow. <3

[[S2]MacroHard]

3 first is stupid unless you're solo or expect a lvl1 gank. Always get 1 for the slow. <3

I disagree.

An invulnerable spell-dodging escape at level 1 is much more important than a low damage 10% slow at level 1.

And if it's about chasing for your own first blood, that 700 range blink will get more attacks in than the 10% slow.

[[iRBa]FiskOgHon]

I thought of the exact same build when i went to take a look at him in practice mode. And i agree completely about 3 over 1.

[[RCT]IsmaelVera]

Idk. First thing that suprised me was not getting salvo first, since at max level, with 3 hits of it you have 380 damage, but since you aren't taking that into account then it makes sense.

[[S2]MacroHard]

Idk. First thing that suprised me was not getting salvo first, since at max level, with 3 hits of it you have 380 damage, but since you aren't taking that into account then it makes sense.

Getting 3 hits is almost impossible against a competent adversary. If he is stunned its 2 hits at most. If no stunned, also 2 hits at most.

You can get more during a chase where the enemy is funneled into a path such that if he stops or turns around he will face even more devastation. This scenario, however, is somewhat rare, especially early game when trying to decide what to level first.

TL;DR-
Consistent Damage + Healing > Potential Damage

[`Lucky``]

excellent work. his burst potential is suprisingly low, 530 at level 14 vs 5.5 MA. 100 less if they have a mystic vestment. - how much would it be factoring added damage from double warp, perfect bounces from golden shower, and maximized damaged from lions?

pebs has around 950 at a similar level assuming you can combo at point blank?

[Theburned]

excellent work. his burst potential is suprisingly low, 530 at level 14 vs 5.5 MA. 100 less if they have a mystic vestment. - how much would it be factoring added damage from double warp, perfect bounces from golden shower, and maximized damaged from lions?

pebs has around 950 at a similar level assuming you can combo at point blank?

well at lvl 16, you get 150 from ulti warp 340 up to 360 from lions, and 220 + 300 from the flask with stun bounce, which is supposed to happen with decent skill. seems stupid, but k 380 damage though you need to be far away for it to deal more damage and afaik it will be up to 540 damage for the last flask?
so by just hitting all the flasks from range will deal 1900 damage damage, and if you pop up a lions with full hits you get 2260 damage, but this is a way past dreaming scenario so lets skip it and let it deal just 520 (+ lions 360) 880 damage, dealing 510 damage, then you warp in and hit him for another 170 damage.
2750 damage is max, no idea how but max potential...
normal scenario, lions through creep wave, 360, port in 170, ulti 150, flask 2 hits 520. 1200 magic damage, being around 900 damage after 5.5 magic armor.
might add another 150 magic damage, which is about 115 damage.
if the ulti procs twice. and another 170 (130) if you hit him with both waves.
so up to around 1150 damage against a 5.5 magic armor enemy.

[[4SS]GerryBoulet]

w
might add another 150 magic damage, which is about 115 damage.
if the ulti procs twice.

Is it even possible to proc the ult twice ??? you have 2 sec window to cast 2 spell and only have 3 spell with CD >10 sec even with a spellshard...

[DrOetker_]

3 first is stupid unless you're solo or expect a lvl1 gank. Always get 1 for the slow. <3

That's kinda like saying u should pick haunt instead of blink first on hag ...

[[S2]MacroHard]

Is it even possible to proc the ult twice ??? you have 2 sec window to cast 2 spell and only have 3 spell with CD >10 sec even with a spellshard...

No it is not possible. Max damage is 985 agaist 5.5 armor.

220 + 80 + 80 + 80 (hit with 3 additional bounces)
+
360 (cap for LP)
+
170 + 170 (departure and arrival)
+
150
=
1310

[Mankrik]

Pebbles combo requires melee range, tossing the right target, has no built-in blink and only does extreme damage to one target. To anything else it's less aoe than midas is capable of putting out, and midas is both ranged and capable of stunning for 2s in an aoe significantly more often than every 20 seconds. He also has huge int gain, an aoe heal and a snare. They do very very different things, so it's not really fair to compare pebbles to midas in terms of damage output on a single target. Nobody does as much magic damage at levels 3-9 as pebbles.

You are right, though, that midas isn't some huge powerhouse of damage. He's a much better teamfighter than solo ganker. Fayde/pebbles/gauntlet will all do dramatically more spell damage if they're just hitting a sitting target.

I think S2 could balance midas a little better if they dropped the stun to 1.5s and allowed reagents to proc off of item-based spells such as frostfield or codex.

[MaZy]

If you got Vindi as enemy, you can't do much with ur ulti. U get 2 Sec silenced. Well, I guess frew more seconds for ulti (or next spell) is requested.
Would be wonderful.

[BRUTALSWRATH]

What kind of "thing" is his ulti? Since you cant remove the Lion's Reagent with Arachna's W or nullfire

[Fen__]

Couple of facts that i would mention:

Since midas is a 1v1 hero i belive that going 1:1:1 skill build is a bit uneffective.

lvl 1 salvo + lions pride = 175 dmg at a cost of 200 mana
lvl 2 pride = 120 dmg at a cost of 200 mana

Basically when going 1:1:1 we do a extra 55 dmg for cost of 90 mana which i would say is a bit uneffective

3 second 10% slow is almost unnoticable as well

We should add the fact as well that slow is rly hard to land on a decent play unless we first transmutated him, while lion pride got high enough speed to land it without additional debuffs + at the same get great extra dmg from healing creeps.

1 more thing worth mentioning is creep pushing (this situation is mostly referring to mid fights). At minute 2 when the first rune spawns if i remember correct, we should be lvl 3 with no chances for lvl 4, that means that with lvl 2 lions pride we got a good tool to effectively(low mana cost) and fast kill a creep wave(couple of autoattacks + lion pride going threw 4 creeps 200 dmg) so that we can gather the rune without need of losing farm because of creeps left in the lane, at the same time creep wave is being healed what prevents in some way our enemy from doing the same. For some it can look unimportant but in my oppinion that minute 2 rune without need of losing mid farm can give you great advantage till lvl 6.

P.S. That cooldown change ****ed him completly :/

[[AOWL]SmurfinBird]

What kind of "thing" is his ulti? Since you cant remove the Lion's Reagent with Arachna's W or nullfire

StatusDebuff I think. I don't have a copy of HoN on this PC so I can't check :/

[[S2]MacroHard]

StatusDebuff I think. I don't have a copy of HoN on this PC so I can't check :/

It appears to be a state, not a debuff, indicating it cannot be purged off once applied. It is applied from <onimpact> via magic type abilities, though, so an already magic immune target will not acquire a reagent.

Hypothetical situation:
You cast salvo. Target gets reagent.
0.1 seconds later, Target gets Jera shield. Target is now immune.
0.1 seconds later, you cast Lions. Target does not get new reagent and does not transmute.
0.1 seconds later, you cast nullfire. Target is no longer magic immune.
0.1 seconds later, you blink onto him. Target gets another reagent that mixes with the original one from salvo that was never removed, and gets transmuted.

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