We appreciate all of the participants in the Twitch.TV Challenge. There has been alot of confusion regarding the rule on participants, roster and team. We would like to reach out to the HoN Community to let them voice their opinion in how to make this tournament even better. We want to do better and want to know how you would like rules modified to make enhancements to this Tournament. Please voice your opinion below and keep it on topic. Again, we want to improve so flaming us or anyone is not helpful.
Here is a link to the rules incase you have yet to read them: http://www.beyondgaming.com/page/twitchtvhon/rules
Beyond Gaming, S2 Games and HoNCast will be gathered together on the HonCast tomorrow at 12:30 PST to discuss and resolve any issues. In the meantime, let your voice be heard and help us make the rest of this event amazing.
On behalf of Beyond Gaming, TwitchTV and S2 Games we appreciate the support and look forward to improving your competition needs.
Tournament rules have been updated and we have provided tools for the Team Leader to designate players as Substitutes. Each team may designate (2) subs for the Tournament from here on out.
Last edited by BeyondTony; 08-19-2011 at 08:40 AM.
Do not seed the best teams in one spot, it is ok if the lesser teams qualify but stuff like this shouldn't happen to much. Also, make it possible to have more then 5 for the qualifier. You should be able to use a substitute (ie. the 6th OF YOUR TEAM) if one person cannot be there all night due to whatever reason (personal, technical etc.).
Those are the 2 issues I would say are the biggest.
Thanks for the feedback, having 1 substitute is something we are definitely considering. I appreciate you taking the time to respond.
I would even go maybe a little beyond 6 and make it 7 or 8 allowed as long as someone is only able to be on one roster.
Thank Rebecca and Abnecide, we just need to ensure that ringers are not finding their way onto several team rosters. This would be detrimental to the integrity of the tournament.
PiIIOWS, we understand your frustration and are attempting to listen to you and the entire HoN community. Your continued flaming is helping nobody, we even went out of our way to let you modify your roster less than 10 minutes before the start of the tournament today. You are complaining about a FREE Tournament with great prize money on the line. This is our first opportunity to engage the HoN players and we want positive feedback or constructive criticism. Your attitude does not help the situation.
If you don't like the site, don't read it. Probably another 17 y ear old gurgglin' loads of semen thinking they're holding weight with that GR tag. I bet you got excited and proud of yourself when you tagged up after brown-nosing a bunch of neckbeard slobs who fondle themselves to hopes of a Final Fantasy 7 remake
Ringers aren't substitutes. Until an admin can learn the difference your tournament will still suck.
Expecting the exact 5 people to be able to play back to back days as early as 9am is just silly, having 7-8 man rosters is not unreasonable, most tournaments have this in fact.
We understand the difference iLoveJenna and are considering adding available spots on the active Team Rosters to play in the competition.
Subs are commonplace in every team sport I can think of, as well as e-sport. How you guys overlooked that not once, but twice, is just mind-blowing.
Not only did you make it so teams couldn't have subs, you made it so the captain cannot choose who plays before the competition. So if say.. someone has some difficulties and falls out of touch for a day or two, there's no way to get him off the roster and another player on, who can play.
Also I asked an admin to switch players on ours a full 48 hours before the tournament started, as one of our players was busy this weekend, nothing was done, not even a response from an admin.
I mean, I realize you guys are new to this, but a lot of it is just common sense...
Edit: Home-team should not have absolute server choice either. If an Australian team plays a Euro team before the BO3s home-team will basically decide the game. The same holds true to USW vs EU to a smaller degree.
Last edited by iLoveJenna; 08-13-2011 at 08:06 PM.
Server choice should generally be decided based on policy of fair pings. Even in a bo3 with alternating servers, in some cases giving one team two home server advantages can drastically affect a game. Sure, this is mainly for the teams where bigger ping differences between home servers are apparent, but it should still be reconsidered.
That said, server selection is *always* a big issue and there's never an event where it doesn't get disputed or disrupted by a team one way or another. It's best to prepare all admins for that to stick to the rules and common decency to determine what servers are acceptable.
Rule 4.6 needs some serious reconsideration.
Only allowing five people on a roster at any given time is a practical impossibility (I know this from experience). Stand-ins and such are extra people that are registered to a team so the team may play at the given times. In any tournament that spans more than a few (3-4) hours or multiple days, it is advisable to allow some stand-ins to allow teams to play their matches.
The reason people are against 'ringers' is because ringers are unauthorised. People who play for a team who are not actually on the roster. And that, of course, is the point.
It's highly inadvisable to force teams to pause for 15 minutes about a dispute. It should never be a problem to let them play and submit the match ID for consideration later. This may cause a little extra work for your admins, but that should never be a primary reason for the rules.
7.4 and 7.5 seem to be conflicting. You can pause once for 10 mins, and the enemy can't unpause. But after 20 mins they can insist the game continue without the player? If you can only pause once for 10 mins without an unpause, wouldn't it mean it's only about 15 minutes?
7.7 is a bit redundant since you already have 4.6
8 - all rules under 8 are labeled 7.*
4.2 and 8.2 are similarly redundant. Punishment for breaking any rule should be possible disqualification. Although it may be a decent point to emphasize so I guess it's not all bad.
I have also heard that there were issues with seeding. While I can understand it is easier to completely randomize seeds, it is detrimental to the final results of a tournament, as it can cause lower skilled teams to be qualified en masse by unfortunate seeding of top teams.
It's advisable to give admins or organizers some time to decide on a reasonable seeding structure by rating individual teams as much as possible. It does not need to be exact, but a rough estimate on what are the better teams is generally preferable to completely random seeding.
I sincerely hope any outstanding issues can be resolved so the rest of the event is succesful. As tournament organisers, we should always strive to provide the best possible service to teams and players and uphold a general standard as high as we can possible set it. Good luck.
Last edited by Athildur; 08-13-2011 at 08:39 PM.
I know a lot of people are mad about the seeding / bracket placements. I don't want OK v MSI in the first bo1 elimination round personally, I'd like to see an exciting finals.
Was about to send a complaint e-mail. Glad to see that you're looking for feedback.
However, feedback or at least general understanding of how tournaments have been organized in the past BEFORE you start your own tournament would have been better, especially considering you're entering a new market and may drive people away from participating in them by reaching bad decisions.
Randomized seeding should absolutely be out of the question. It has never worked in any sport or eSport in the history of ever. At least go through the effort of seeding 8 teams in a 256 team bracket.
Ringers and substitutes are not the same thing. Learn the difference. Especially frustrating was the fact that once you signed up for the tournament you could not change your roster. I had players that told me 3 days in advance they couldn't show up for matches, but there was nothing we could do in those 3 days to fix the roster on the website and were thus disqualified from the 2nd qualifier.
Tell your admins to get some common sense. If a player is registered for the team, both on the website and in-game, but isn't on the roster due to a failure within YOUR WEBSITE - don't freaking disqualify them. It's completely nonsensical.
Athildur nailed it on the rules etc.
Also, please don't pull this card:
If anyone, the HoN community heard enough of that excuse.You are complaining about a FREE Tournament with great prize money on the line.
Please seed teams in some fashion and do not put every powerhouse team on the same bracket.
Also your website can use some improvements, as it does not load over half the times.
Oh and also you guys can for sure improve on some of the rules Athildur said. Thats pretty much it!
Thanks Kolapz and Athildur, we want to make right on all aspects. We are taking all of this feedback in and will have an announcement early next week with an updated ruleset. In regards to research we have run a lot of Tournaments but this is the first HoN event we have done and was reliant on S2 to help establish the general rules. There was a bit of mis-communication on the ruleset and overall they could have been better. We realize that and will be making modifications.
In regards to the website, you are able to modify your roster prior to the start date of the event. The captain just needs to "Leave Roster" and then players that cant play can also Leave. We are working on a simpler feature set to allow for easier roster modification prior to the event starting. We are in beta and really want to iterate on the functionality to get it to a point that everyone likes it.
Thanks again and hopefully you all return for the 3rd Qualifier next week.
The main thing for me would be the roster issue, only allowing 5 people (and not explicitly stating this in the rules) is kind of ridiculous, especially when the games are on set times/dates.
Can we expect to see changes made for the 3rd/4th Qualifiers, or are you planning to continue as you started?