Gaming is mainstream, I don't care call me a hipster.
It's stupid how the majority of gamers want shitty games that are casualized and shallow games.
THE WORST PART IS THAT THEY SELL SO SUCCESSFULLY. Why? Why do they make so much profit.
Oh yeah these people are the vast majority. Anyone who remembers why games are good and what makes a good game are now minorities, not even vocal ones!
Being a try hard is ENCOURAGED!? WHAT HAPPENED?
Why is HoN slowly being a worse game? Am I the only one that sees this? How many shitty heroes do we need to clutter the pool? Why are some heroes still absurdly overpowered( etc) Why are they making 2 ****ing heroes every 2 weeks?
Why is it that I feel like all the games are so good initially (HoN beta was SO GOOD NOT EVEN NOSTALGIA) and then it just gets SHITTIER? Why is it that SO MANY PEOPLE are dick sucking the companies when people mention it's getting shitty?
WHAT HAPPENED!? WHY ARE GAMES JUST SO BAD NOW?
i ****ing hate try hards
So.. What exactly is your problem? I see a variety of complaints here. Organize your comment and we might have a discussion. Try no caps.
I believe he is mad because that people with either a high postcount , mod status or forum award - people who have opinions who actually seem to matter dont stand up against the changes that is bringing this game down a slippery slope.
Thats my interpretation at least. There is some truth to it.
I got that, and it's true, but the problem with such statements is that they're generally made in such a way that nobody will take them seriously.
I do definitely agree that HoN was better in it's beta stage. The community was more pleasant back then, too.
Is this about HoN or games in general ?
If it is about HoN this is the wrong forum section.
But my answere would be that this community only gets what it deserved. Its realy hard for me to blame just S2 for the recent development of HoN. They made alot of mistakes in the past that lead to the situation now, but that is not realy what people complain about.
During the early beta stage of HoN S2 tried to distance the game from DotA in quite some ways, but the community response was very negative on any change that pulled HoN further away from the original game. People wanted to mirror balance changes and prefered ports over original S2 heroes.
This is where S2 games made the big mistake that lead to the situation we have rigth now. S2 listened to the community and slowly got closer to dota. Atackmodifiers where added again, alot of heroes where ported,...
S2 believed that the community would apreciate it and stick with the game. But the community betrayed S2 games (or did the obvious thing S2 should have known beforehand) !
As soon as the Dota 2 was announced everyone that wanted S2 to stay as close to DotA as possible announced to leave as soon as Dota 2 would be released.
This puts S2 in the position it is in rigth now. They need to reposition because now the main competetor is not LoL (a game alot different to HoN and DotA) but Dota 2 a game that is pretty much only Dota:source what means its more or less the same thing as HoN (or DotA:K2 if you want to call it like that.)
All the new changes to the game feel rushed and not well thougth out, but it is not like they have a choice. Its better to have a worse game then a game that is so close to a superior competator (or a competator with a superior name) that it will be overshadowed and die out anyway.
Dont get me wrong i hate most of the new changes. Not the gameplay changes, but the whole ingame shop, EA, alternative announcers, F2P...)
But i am able to see why they were forced to do them. Yes S2 is kind of dumb when it comes to dealing with the community and choosing a direction for a game. (Savage 2 anyone ?)
But the community forced this crap on us by whining about more ports, mirror patches... and brougth S2 to the dumbest decision since changing the combat system in Savage 2 after release to scare away even the last loyal players.
When this players announced they would leave for Dota 2 they abandoned the ship they crashed and now we have to suffer a panicking S2 that is trying to keep it somehow floating.
You could always play competitive forum games:
If you notice serious balance issues with forum games, they're usually corrected by next week's game. If you're a true gamer who doesn't care about shallow graphics or musical score, it follows that you should sign up for the forum games which concentrate entirely on gameplay.
We also don't screw you over by selling in-game items or stats, and even if we did you could always take the rules and host the game yourself.
As a serious response, I agree with OP, though his post could have been organized a bit better.
The population of actual gamers is dying. Games these days are made to appeal to the largest crowd possible. When you appeal to the largest crowd possible, you have to sacrifice a lot of depth. The thing that separates gamers from people who like the gaming equivalent to an interactive television is the desire for challenge. Gamers want to be challenged, they want their skills to be pushed to the maximum everytime, they want to be forced to come up with innovative strategies and ideas in order to win or succeed. This used to be how all games were, but more and more the games don't focus on being difficult or competitive, they focus more on the social aspect (Facebook games) or making an environment where people can escape their real-life problems (World of Warcraft).
That's not to say that there aren't any game designers which make games for gamers anymore: Starcraft 2 is definitely a game for gamers, Natural Selection 2 will be, Super Meat Boy, Demon Souls, AI War, etc.
Games made for gamers typically start everybody out on the same foot, giving each person the same advantages and disadvantages. Because of this, RPGs are notoriously bad for catering to the crowd of giving their players that spent money or time an advantage. League of Legends is a good example of turning a challenging game into a formula that appeals to the mass audience, while removing depth and skill. Heroes of Newerth used to be a game made for gamers, but with the F2P change, EA, and the rate at which they release new champions, it seems to me that they are now targetting the mass audience instead of shooting for quality; which saddens me.
Hopefully DotA 2 will be made for gamers, the way that the original DotA was, but we have yet to see.
The problem is that there just isn't much money left in making true games. In a Capitalistic world, we are taught to maximize profit over creating a quality product. Companies care less and less about the depth and skill that their game requires, and more about how many dollar signs it can get them. Greed is the death of innovation, and unfortunately it is our main driving force in this society.
Originally Posted by senzation54
Farmville is not a game.
Hat_truck hit most of the points.
doubt dota 2 will be any better. Just doesn't make any sense that it will be.
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Valve is also gonna casualize the **** out of Dota to maximize their profits,
i would absolutly hate for Dota 2 to go F2P with a cashshop.
But if both of their competitors are using that kind of business model there is a high chance they will do the same.
Hell id prefer Dota 2 over any other MOBA if it will be a regular full-price title without a cashshop or silly DLC,even without knowing anything about it.
But to be pessimistic , i predict that we end up with 3 F2P games that compete for the casuals.
I hate the direction this industry is going, DLC crap and F2p everywhere.
Last edited by FaceMelter00; 08-13-2011 at 01:53 PM.
If Valve was smart they'd create the dota that we all love as a mode while catering to the other crowd with their super casual time.
We're in a transition period.
Consider film, what are probably the best movies to your recollection? Now, did any of them get the same amount of money as Transformers 3? Or Green Lanturn? Probably not. It's always been that the casual audience winds up funding studios with ridiculous amounts of money, which they can then gamble on with a more serious project (King's speech and Black Swan, for example, are two films that would not have been possible without millions of people seeing the latest popcorn flick).
An increase in revenue allows for an increase in production. So right now, there's going to be a million and one games that cater to a casual audience, but in a couple years the demand for more "gamer games" will come in, and developers will only be too happy to oblige, after all, most people developing games are gamer people are they not?
Just think what Starcraft 2 would have looked like without the success of WoW, or if Valve wasn't so successful with the Half-life series, would anybody bother to make a 4 hour physics/computerscience experiment?
(of course, you could rely on xbla indie games, but we want a big budget one don't we? a "black swan" we can all appreciate).
Just sit tight, and in a couple years we'll get our "Black Swan", thanks to the funding of casual gamers.
Since pics are disabled, the following in an explanation on how to count better.
Ever tired of counting on your fingers and being stuck at 10? Here's the solution: Binary finger counting. Instead of counting how many fingers are up, you count which fingers are up. With only 8 fingers, you can count up to 255.
1. Ignore thumbs, they make this process harder.
2. Start with your rightmost finger. This finger represents 2^0, or 1. Your next finger represents 2^1, or 2. Try all the different combinations with these two fingers, you have a range from 0-3. Your next finger, 2^2 = 4, followed by 2^3 = 8 and so on.
3. Now you can count high! the finger combination 00110101 = 1+4+16+32 = 53.
honestly I don't care that much if Dota 2 fails.
with games like forza motorsport 4, dead island, MW3, BC3.
Basically there is a very good chance the releases in Q4 will keep me happy for a long time.
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If everything else fail, you still have Pen&Paper RPGs ^_^
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HoN is dieing.
There are still innovative games coming out.
Eventually series that are just rehashing the same thing over and over will die.
Plenty of solid games still coming out;
Guild Wars 2, DotA 2, Battlefield 3, Diablo 2, Dark Souls, Skyrim, etc.
This is right on the money.
Also worth noting is that, in my opinion, "competitive" games are one of the game genres that are the most difficult to keep artful. Any game with very long amounts of time played and interaction between players while they play has a lot more financial potential.
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When you refer to "solid", it clearly means something very different than what the original topic is about.Plenty of solid games still coming out;
Guild Wars 2, DotA 2, Battlefield 3, Diablo 2, Dark Souls, Skyrim, etc.
Guild Wars 2 is an MMO, and though Arenanet has good intentions for it, we have yet to see whether the quality and projected depth over the game will come to fruition when they have several million players crying about every little thing that's too hard (and cave in like every other MMO on the market).
DotA 2 has potential to be a hardcore game, that just depends on Valve.
Battlefield 3 - HAH!
Diablo 3 - HAH!
Dark Souls - This is a game for gamers.
Skyrim - Sandbox game definitely made for casuals.
Originally Posted by senzation54
Guild Wars 2 is at least trying to put a twist on MMOs, from the combat system to the whole phasing system that WoW kinda-of toyed with.
As long as DotA 2 is like DotA with a simple Valve twist it should be great.
Battlefield 3 is going back to its roots. They're actually listening to their customers. Its no run and gun CoD where everyone and their mom picks it up. Its more for gamers who enjoy working together, and that why I love the squad based mechanics.
Diablo 3 we'll just wait and see.
Dark Souls is for manly men. Demon's Souls was so good.
Skyrim is for a particular crowd. It's definitely not for casuals because casuals are all in it for gameplay and no story, where as Bethseda games are focused on story and exploration. Saying its for casuals is just plain idiotic.
There a difference in being stream-lined, mainstreamed and thrown out every year with little to no improvement. These are games like Halo, Call of Duty, and Assassin's Creed. If you consider a game mainstream just because its popular then all games SHOULD be mainstream. They should be good enough that everyone wants to play it.