Puppet Master mid vs Andromeda/Succ/Defiler/TB

[[Qt3]TheBusDriver]

I like taking Puppet mid because he's fairly survivable but I ended up hurting against Andromeda and Succ on two occasions, and I imagine Defiler and TB would give me the same problems. Typically if I expect a tough mid I go for 9 runes of the blight and two mana pots, as well as the +2/+2/+2 item that goes into any of the three stats bracers.

Last hitting becomes difficult because Puppet doesn't really have a nuke to hit them with, and his strings don't disable them from attacking me, so I don't want to blast through my tree runes and end up having to abandon mid before 6 on a run to the fountain.

I'm thinking I could probably do without the mana pots, since I only use strings if someone is going to come gank my opponent, or if I'm in danger of being ganked. I could be more aggressive about the runes, so maybe a courier and then a quick bottle? But that would leave me fairly fragile against Succ/TB/Defiler.

Or should I be just plain old more aggressive, and level Puppet Show instead of strings, then blast away with a Whiplash auto-attack?

[TreeHorse]

I think the first and foremost thing to consider here is that Puppet should ideally be laned with another hero due to his dual CC abilities. This would leave a hero who benefits more from being overleveled to solo (Defiler, TB, SS, Succ, etc).

If you can't avoid it.. buy minor totems instead of more expensive stat items, stock up not only on blighted runes but also healing potions, and a mana battery will help with both healing & mana regen against a spell-spamming mid lane.

[[Qt3]TheBusDriver]

It only makes sense to get 2 minor totems for power supply. Anything more you have to sell. Granted, they're cheap, but...

[TreeHorse]

It also makes sense not to solo puppet...

[ZombieFewd]

Get bottle and rune whore if you're soloing middle... other items don't measure up if you're competent about abusing runes. An early haste/regen or even a double damage could either save you or get some easy kills.

[Cash]

You dont really need any mana items on puppet.
He has more than enough mana to use his disables and ult (later on).
Also 9 runes of blight is overkill imo.
Get 6 runes of blight, rest stat items, no mana regen.
If youre going to carry hard with dps build you dont really need a bottle, if the situations allows you to gank hardcore then get one.
Puppet is an okayish ganker, but I believe if youre soloing with him you do so to get money/xp and not to amplify his gank potential.
Hes not like pyro, succubus etc who get a safe kill as soon as they reach lvl 6.

[henxucvdb]

Uhm ReDaL1ce is right, he has enough mana for the early game.
Just try to skill 3rd first (many of you would say it doesn't make sense), cuz of the splash dmg. I deny/kill 4 creeps with normal attack and in the 5th shot, I attack the enemy hero.

When reaching to lvl 6 I usually swap lanes with another ranged hero so that I can support any killer or doing a combo like pred, scout or swift. smthg like that.

Furthermore, try to reach all the runes, a haste could be good at the beggining to kill someone or reg to avoid backing to the fountain. It's better this than the enemy hero storing the rune on bottle.

[[0g]Trajer]

Whenever I solo mid as puppet I get a bottle to start and level Whiplash asap. I'll get one rank of puppeteer's hold and level up his taunt 2nd. Taunting an enemy when you have whiplash ready really makes for some heavy damage and grief, especially if you can get a hold on him right after.

Bottle is always useful for solo's, as long as you can get each rune every 2 min. I usually don't leave mid until I'm level 7-8, and it's just to buy.

To respond more specifically, I think you'd have to be more aggressive when against someone like pyro, succ, or andromeda. TB will give you a lot of problems, I'm not sure how to avoid his damage griefs.

[_PINK]

Have a teammate buy courier.

Buy 2 +3 int boosters, 2 totems, a potion and runes. Buy bottle with courier as soon as you hit 600.

[[E]Tripwyr]

Get bottle and rune whore if you're soloing middle... other items don't measure up if you're competent about abusing runes. An early haste/regen or even a double damage could either save you or get some easy kills.

Dude please. Don't tell people to get bottle first in mid, it's the wrong thing to do and in no way over shadows other items.

If you're going to want a bottle in mid, you should get stats and regen to start. If your team has a courier, buy:

Pretender's Crown x1
Minor Totem x2
Runes of Blight x2
Mana Potion x2

OR

Pretender's Crown x2
Minor Totem x1 (replace with mana potion if desired)
Runes of Blight x2

and if your team does not have a courier, buy:

Monkey Courier x1
Health Potion x1
Runes of Blight x1
Mana potion x2
Minor Totem x2

OR

Monkey Courier x1
Runes of Blight x1
Pretender's Crown x1
Mana Potion x2

Then you have stats to farm up a bottle yourself. After about 2-4 minutes you should be able to buy a bottle and bring it to yourself with the courier. You shouldn't be spamming spells until level 3-5 anyway, so there is no reason to get bottle off the bat.

[JeLuLa]

I hate to disagree with you, but there are numerous heroes in which a bottle is definitely the first thing you want to grab. Don't underestimate the power of runes for early game kills, plus mana restore and heal. You may loose some stats, but the regen and staying power that a bottle lends you definitely outweighs the minor gain on any hero that relies on spells to harass.

[TreeHorse]

I hate to disagree with you, but there are numerous heroes in which a bottle is definitely the first thing you want to grab. Don't underestimate the power of runes for early game kills, plus mana restore and heal. You may loose some stats, but the regen and staying power that a bottle lends you definitely outweighs the minor gain on any hero that relies on spells to harass.

Yes, you want a bottle with MANY heroes in this game. But.. not as your very first item. That's what a courier is for - to bring it to you! It is very easy to farm up the gold if you are playing solo mid competently. Plus, if your enemy has a bottle, you will easily out-deny him since you have higher attack damage

[Verix]

I hate to disagree with you, but there are numerous heroes in which a bottle is definitely the first thing you want to grab. Don't underestimate the power of runes for early game kills, plus mana restore and heal. You may loose some stats, but the regen and staying power that a bottle lends you definitely outweighs the minor gain on any hero that relies on spells to harass.

Noob advice friend. There is not a single character that gains more from level 1 bottle than level 3/4 bottle with stats, runes/mana pots. Even if you got every rune, it wouldn't be more useful. And if you don't get every rune (your opponent is not an idiot) then you are going to be sent back to base every 30 seconds.

[[blub]Blaat]

As puppet mid u don't have useful spells to harass the enemy with. Heroes like Andromeida, Succ, Defiler and TB do have these spells, only if they are so dumb to run up to your tower so you can hold them.

In side lanes your spells are really useful if you dual lane with Maliken or Magnus for example.

[noodle0117]

I hate to disagree with you, but there are numerous heroes in which a bottle is definitely the first thing you want to grab. Don't underestimate the power of runes for early game kills, plus mana restore and heal. You may loose some stats, but the regen and staying power that a bottle lends you definitely outweighs the minor gain on any hero that relies on spells to harass.

sigh...
where are all these noobs getting this info?
Bottle first...
sucks...
in pubs and noob games, bottle first is viable, but in slightly higher tier games where everyone is more or less map conscious, you cant always rely on runes and bottle.

edit: by the way, puppet is not the best mid solo. He lacks both a nuke and a true disable.
Early game puppet is decent, but lacks in comparison to other intellect nukers.
It's mid game where puppet is at his strongest.
Late game can still be powerful if puppet can farm a harkon's blade.

[[vVv]ShadowsCrush]

Bottle is awful for puppet, he really has no need for it

If you're out harassed by Andro with Puppet, you're doing something wrong
Considering if you get real items, instead of bottle, your level 1 whiplast can hit for 70-90
Plus extra hits if you throw a debuff on him

with andro's base mana he can't really afford to spam stun, and even if he does you should have the hp regen items to counter it

long as you're taking full advantage of whiplash you should have no trouble harassing andro

[Konsume]

what shadow crush said...

but unfortunatly I think pupplet doesn't belong to the mid lane! =X

[[RawR]Rawrior]

Actually, puppet is a good solo mid if you're going the semi carry build. Even with his CC abilities, even more so, he could gank the side lanes easily from mid, and get the kills with the rune control.

He has great harrassing early game, so he could win mid solo. Since he is also going for semi carry(usually, if you're mid), he can get alot of cs and early-mid game XP to get ahead and farm more kills.

Just my 2cents.

[Griddler]

1. You would rather lane than mid.
2. You do not need any mana regen with puppet ever since you do not spam any spells.
3. Bring 1 set of runes and use courier to bring you health pots or more runes if needed.
4. You want fortified bracers, not talismans with puppet. Get your +dmg from other items. So buy crowns, not +3 ints for last hitting.

My normal puppet start goes:
2x minor totem (106)
2x pretender crown (370)
1x runes (90)
------------------
566g (37g left)

Replace 1 crown for a courier if nobody else is buying one on your team. Upgrade totems to power supply (all the mana regen you will need, but more for the HP) and the 1 or 2 crowns into fortified bracers.

You do not gank mid as puppet. You are there because your team didn't pick a true mid lane character and you are just there to get gold and deny and not feed the middle enemy. As mentioned you can wander top or bot to gank, but do not even try to kill 1v1 your mid enemy as they will destroy you if they are at all competent. Now if they are incompetent, use puppet show to force them to stand still for 2-3 hits then strings and ulti if you think you can kill. But vs decent players you might as well save your mana for side lane ganks.

[Pyros]

Have a friend who mostly mid as puppet, in pub games, and he outlanes everyone all the time, no matter which hero. Puppet has a very good attack animation and range, so you can usually harass heroes by just attacking them every 5th hit on whiplash(well less with the new patch but you get the point), and you can usually get a kill at 6 if the hero isn't at full life, because suc tort pyro and so on have very low hp, and his ulti can be casted at a stupid range and will always do the dmg(unless he uses a haste rune). He's also an excelent ganker once he's high enough, with the hold+show disables he can easily kill a lane.

He's definitely not the strongest mid lane hero, but in pubs he's definitely good enough against basically every other hero unless they play much better than him. Also makes him a deadly carry once he outlvls everyone, critting for 500-600 when people mostly have 700-900hp is pretty brutal, and hilarious.