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Thread: Airship/Zeppelin

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  1. #1

    Airship/Zeppelin

    Do not down vote on numbers or theme alone, they can be tweaked, vote only on the concept of the hero.
    If you plan to down vote, please post your reasoning for it beforehand and read through the topic to see if your issue has been previously resolved or explained.



    The Airship



    A creation from the Legion of Man built to provide exploration, scouting and transportation across the wide expanse of the world of Newerth, furthering their conquest. Small but sturdy, the galleon underneath houses an open deck, below that houses living quarters, a large storage space and an arms storage. Above is a large balloon of heated air, cased inside a light metal frame. Fins and propellers placed in important points to assist in the thrust and control of such a contraption. With no weapons of its own, the active crew on duty must be the ones to defend it at all times.


    Affiliation: Legion


    STR+X | AGI+X | INT+X


    Movement Speed: 310
    Attack Range: 300
    Attack Damage: 0-0
    Armor: 0

    Attack Animation: 0/0
    Cast Animation: 0/0
    Base Attack Time: 0
    Missile Speed: 0



    The Airship is heavily a support hero who is not without several escape mechanisms and a bit of self-sustainability, able to either carry allied heroes safely out of battle or store a nearly dead ally inside to protect them from death from a nearby opponent or even a Thunderbringer's ultimate from across the map. Combined with free flight, albeit at a heavy cost, a team can soar the skies of Newerth and drop into battle against unsuspecting foes.

    Due to no normal attack of its own, the Airship starts with its own unique skill that cannot be leveled, Create Glider, among the other 4 that can be leveled up through normal play.

    300 attack range for the hero means the Gliders essentially travel to a maximum of 600 distance(Out and back) and gives the hero a total of 600 attack range with the Glider's additional 300.

    __________________________________________________

    Glider Mechanics

    Gliders are fast, invulnerable mini-units that fly out from the Airship and do one attack at a target from range before retreating back inside and reloading.


    Movement Speed: 522
    Attack Range: 300
    Attack Damage: 10-20
    Armor: Invulnerable
    Magic Armor: Invulnerable

    Attack Animation: 0/0
    Cast Animation: 0/0
    Base Attack Time: 0
    Missile Speed: 0

    If you select to attack, right click or leave your hero standing, the hero will stay at its "attack" distance away from the nearest acquired enemy and "auto attack" where the Gliders would come out and attack at the nearest random target if none are targeted or selected target and hold is not used. Hold would disable Gliders from coming out of the hero, essential for maximizing the use of Glider Swarm. Attack speed factors into the attack speed of the Gliders themselves. On use of an Assassin's Shroud, Invisibility rune or any other invisibility effect the Gliders will disable unless you click to attack.

    Quick sketches of numbers with Air Advancement:
    40 damage at level 1, 50 damage at level 7, 200 damage at level 25 with items and stats.

    4 Gliders beginning at 10-20 damage each would deal 40-80 damage.
    Level 1 Air Advancement and 5 Gliders beginning at 10-20 damage each would deal 60-110 damage due to the stat percentage(4% of 40 = 2).
    Level 4 Air Advancement, 8 Gliders and a level 7 hero would deal 15-25 damage each for 120-200 damage total(10% of 50 = 5).
    Level 4 Air Advancement, 8 Gliders and a level 25 hero would be 30-40 damage each for 240-320 damage total(10% of 200 = 20).
    Level 4 Air Advancement, 12 Gliders(From Anchor's Aweigh) and a level 25 hero would be 30-40 damage each for 360-480 damage total(10% of 200 = 20).

    Do note that the damage would be lowered severely through the use of armor, a Buckler, Iron Shield, Helm of the Black Legion, or evasion bonus.

    Quick sketches of it in combat:

    [H] = Hero
    [_] = Empty tile for 100 range
    [E] = Enemy
    [S] = Selected Enemy

    So a single target at 500 range:
    [H][_][_][_][_][S]
    Your hero would stay still due to no attack of its own, Gliders would fly out for their distance and attack, then fly back inside. The hero would still auto-follow its target if they ran out of range of the Gliders.

    In the case of selecting a target:
    [H][E][_][S][_][E]
    In this case, the Gliders would ignore the enemies on both sides and aim for the one in the middle. Even if the first enemy was attacking the hero the Gliders would pass over to attack.

    In the case of an enemy wave, if you were in distance of the melee and ranged creeps:
    [H][_][_][E][_][E]
    The hero would stay still but the Gliders would auto-acquire a random, closest target and attack. Each time they come back out of the hero they would auto-acquire another random target.
    __________________________________________________

    Free Skill

    Create Glider(Q)

    Housing no weapons of its own and living in the sky, the crew has grown to understand the air and have created gliders that they can fly for short distances before needing to return to the Airship, carrying their own armaments with them. This skill is only upgraded by the Air Advancement skill and cannot be raised on its own.

    Level 1:
    Create up to 4 Gliders.

    Synergy:
    Gliders directly relate to Air Advancement and Anchor's Aweigh for the hero's main source of offense and defense, boosted when allies are inside. Glider Swarm increases its damage and the slow in proportion to the number of Gliders. Highwind allows the hero to get around an enemy hero and chase easily for attacks.

    Balance:
    With the Gliders having low end damage shrugged off by a buckler or other like item with damage annulment, it can lower the hero's damage severely. Also, evasion would be applied to each separately, potentially impairing the hero worse. All item procs would trigger at their full chance% but have cooldown placed on them to stop Gliders from going off too much. They also have to travel in range to attack targets and travel back for a total of 600 distance at most.

    Notes:
    The Airship cannot attack by itself, but it can produce Gliders that attack for it. Gliders are counted as counters similar to Zephyr's Cyclones that increase the maximum in proportion to Air Advancement and the number of allies utilizing AA/WBY. As mentioned in the Balance section, damage annulment or evasion is the bane of Gliders.
    __________________________________________________

    Skill 1

    Air Advancement(Passive)

    Through technology and time the Airship and Gliders can be upgraded and improved upon, providing better control and additional benefits.

    Level 1:
    Create an additional 1 Glider for a total of 5.
    Raises the damage of Gliders by 4% of the Airship's damage.

    Level 2:
    Create an additional 2 Gliders for a total of 6.
    Raises the damage of Gliders by 6% of the Airship's damage.

    Level 3:
    Create an additional 3 Gliders for a total of 7.
    Raises the damage of Gliders by 8% of the Airship's damage.

    Level 4:
    Create an additional 4 Gliders for a total of 8.
    Raises the damage of Gliders by 10% of the Airship's damage.

    Synergy:
    Gliders directly relate to Air Advancement and Anchor's Aweigh for the hero's main source of offense and defense, boosted when allies are inside. Glider Swarm increases its damage and the slow in proportion to the number of Gliders. Highwind allows the hero to get around an enemy hero and chase easily for attacks.

    Balance:
    With the Gliders having low end damage shrugged off by a buckler or other like item with damage annulment, it can lower the hero's damage severely. Also, evasion would be applied to each separately, potentially impairing the hero worse.

    Notes:
    Should be able to raise the damage of the Gliders through the skill based off of the hero's damage, directly relating to damage items and stat boosting items. As mentioned in the Balance section, damage annulment or evasion is the bane of Gliders.
    __________________________________________________

    Skill 2


    Glider Swarm(W)

    The Airship crew expels all Gliders in formation to strike upon a targeted enemy that poses a threat to their craft, striking in unison with all that they have to cripple severely.

    Level 1:
    For each Glider on board, deal 15 damage and apply a 2% slow up to a maximum of 24% for 0.5 seconds per Glider.

    Level 2:
    For each Glider on board, deal 30 damage and apply a 3% slow up to a maximum of 36% for 0.5 seconds per Glider.

    Level 3:
    For each Glider on board, deal 45 damage and apply a 4% slow up to a maximum of 48% for 0.5 seconds per Glider.

    Level 4:
    For each Glider on board, deal 60 damage and apply a 5% slow up to a maximum of 60% for 0.5 seconds per Glider.

    Mana Cost: 100/120/140/160 mana.
    Cooldown: 25 seconds.

    Synergy:
    With the Gliders from Create Glider and additional Gliders from Air Advancement and Anchor's Aweigh it can be an amazingly high damage nuke(Ultimate capabilities, but needing 3 skills and all allies immobile to reach that strength) with a strong slow. Combined with Highwind and Anchor's Aweigh, it can make a powerful tool for chasing or fleeing. Boosted as long as you have allies inside thanks to Anchor's Aweigh.

    Balance:
    While the damage can get to high values, 60/120/180/240 to 120/240/360/480 to 180/360/540/720 and a 60% 6 second slow at maximum, it still requires the player to have 3 skills maxed out and requires all allies to be inside of the hero for maximum effect. Requiring all allied heroes inside causes the Airship to be the only target. The cooldown prevents it from being used often at maximum effect in team battles, one use at most normally. Gliders that are out would have to come in before they attack with the skill so the damage isn't always burst.

    Notes:
    Looking at the Balance section shows insane damage numbers, but the standalone hero would be able to use it for 480 damage and a maximum of 40% slow at most for 4 seconds. If players used teamwork you could make it into the 720 damage nuke for a great opener with the damage and slow on a high DPS or high HP tank hero.
    __________________________________________________

    Skill 3


    Anchor's Aweigh(E)

    The Airship can land and be docked by nearby ally heroes who can stay on board, the Airship can then proceed to lift off and carry boarded allies along.

    Level 1:
    Can carry up to 1 ally within the airship.
    Allies inside gain 1 health regeneration and 0.5 mana regeneration.
    The Airship gains 1 health regeneration, 0.5 mana regeneration and 1 Glider for the number of allies inside.

    Level 2:
    Can carry up to 2 allies within the airship.
    Allies inside gain 2 health regeneration and 1 mana regeneration.
    The Airship gains 2 health regeneration, 1 mana regeneration and 1 Glider for the number of allies inside.

    Level 3:
    Can carry up to 3 allies within the airship.
    Allies inside gain 3 health regeneration and 1.5 mana regeneration.
    The Airship gains 3 health regeneration, 1.5 mana regeneration and 1 Glider for the number of allies inside.

    Level 4:
    Can carry up to 4 allies within the airship.
    Allies inside gain 4 health regeneration and 2 mana regeneration.
    The Airship gains 4 health regeneration, 2 mana regeneration and 1 Glider for the number of allies inside.

    Mana Cost: 25 mana.
    Cooldown: 0 seconds. Delay of 3/2.5/2/1.5 seconds between Landing and Taking Off.

    Synergy:
    Gliders directly relate to Create Glider and Air Advancement for the hero's main source of offense and defense, boosted when allies are inside. Glider Swarm increases its damage and the slow in proportion to the number of Gliders when allies are inside. Combined with Highwind, it can make a powerful tool for chasing or fleeing capabilities, able to carry full teams over all terrain to attack or heal quickly and safely from global attack skills. Enough allies can help negate or even out the mana per second from Highwind as well.

    Balance:
    Landing will disable movement and attacking for the hero, essentially making itself an open target for attacks. Having allies on board, while giving health and mana regeneration and an additional Glider for each ally, would give enemies 1 less target and could result in the hero being the only target by others.

    Notes:
    The Airship can land, disabling movement and attacks, or take off. Allies cannot be damaged while inside, but can leave by making any move action. The total regeneration for the hero would then be 16 health regeneration and 8 mana regeneration, but requires all teammates inside to function fully.
    __________________________________________________

    Ultimate
    Skill 4


    Highwind(R)(Toggle)

    Able to soar above the ground, trees, cliffs, oceans and clouds themselves, the Airship rises to the occasion and gets a true bird's eye view of the world.

    Level 1:
    Takes # mana per second, granting unit-walk, terrain-walk, cliff-walk, tree-walk, building-walk and +5% movement speed.
    Gives the Airship x1.25 vision range.

    Level 2:
    Takes # mana per second, granting unit-walk, terrain-walk, cliff-walk, tree-walk, building-walk and +10% movement speed.
    Gives the Airship x1.5 vision range.

    Level 3:
    Takes # mana per second, granting unit-walk, terrain-walk, cliff-walk, tree-walk, building-walk and +15% movement speed.
    Gives the Airship x1.75 vision range.

    Staff of the Master/Level 4:
    Takes # mana per second, granting unit-walk, terrain-walk, cliff-walk, tree-walk, building-walk and +20% movement speed.
    Gives the Airship x2 vision range.

    Mana Cost: # mana per second.
    Cooldown: 0 seconds. Delay of 3/2.5/2/1.5 seconds between activating and deactivating possibly.

    Synergy:
    The skill allows the hero to get around an enemy hero and chase easily for attacks using the Gliders from Create Glider, Air Advancement and Anchor's Aweigh. Glider Swarm, with or without Anchor's Aweigh, can work with the skill to provide a powerful tool for chasing or fleeing. Combined with Anchor's Aweigh, it can make a powerful tool for chasing or fleeing capabilities, able to carry full teams over all terrain to attack or heal quickly and safely from global attack skills. Enough allies can help negate or even out the mana per second from the skill with the mana regeneration from Anchor's Aweigh as well.

    Balance:
    While providing limitless flight at increased speeds and a vision range to catch incoming attackers, it comes at a heavy mana per second cost that can take a toll on your mana pool if left on.

    Notes:
    Using an active toggle with a high mana upkeep, the Airship turns into a full flying unit able to travel over any obstacle or terrain feature while getting an increased movement speed and vision range. Not quite sure on the mana number. I figure no cooldown would let you pop it for short periods or off and on when it comes to a cliff for running at low cost if played right.
    __________________________________________________

    Last edited by Cesious; 01-29-2010 at 01:44 AM.

  2. #2
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    kinda like the concept. pretty unique the combination of the third skilla nd the ult could do some insane things.

  3. #3
    That's just a few sample ideas for skills though. I'm really not sure how the hero would work for attacks since the Gliders should technically be the attack focus for the hero. I'm thinking a cannon shot would be a good normal attack but I don't want it dealing much damage. Though that's forced synergy in itself with the Gliders. I'm still thinking that Legion is the best team for it.

    Maybe the Gliders would be units like Scout hang-gliding and using crossbows. And maybe not extra attacks per level but raise their hp/armor/magic armor/speed and lower the cooldown between times they can take off. The Swarm/Barrage idea would need to be a secondary skill of the Gliders most likely or it'd be forced synergy again.

    Being able to transport heroes and drop them off wherever combined with high movement speed and large vision with no penalties to where you could move is a nice support effect. Though people would complain if it's passive because it's essentially like Sand Wraith's first skill permanently, and castable would need a sizeable duration or very low cooldown to be useful.

    Here's a question, what about dropping normal attacks completely and having the hero start with the ability to bring up Gliders? It'd be an active toggle that doesn't require any skill points and would only be upgraded through either an active or passive skill the hero gets separately. It would make the Gliders the only source of damage and they would get a % bonus based off of the hero's stats and damage. Interesting and new concept. One of the skills could be purely an upgrade to the total number of Gliders and movespeed, attackspeed, cooldown, hp, armor, magic armor and all for the Gliders or that could be a passive effect on the ultimate with a Staff of the Master connected.

  4. #4
    Make the ultimate a toggle with high mana upkeep rather than a passive. It's too powerful to have constant flight. I think that the dropship role could be interesting but S2 probably wouldn't recognize it as a legitimate role.

  5. #5
    Constant Flight would be too powerful because it'd be easy to run away or go to places you can't be caught at. A toggle that takes mana over time would be awesome, able to keep it on as long as you want but requiring a large upkeep.

    The dropship role could be seen as a legitimate support role we haven't seen. A hero that doesn't actually do damage itself but with mini-units as well as being able to transport allies for team ganks or pushes and such. If players could nuke from inside, that would be insanely hilarious and would actually be balanced somewhat because that means the hero has to take all the damage. Even without that concept, being able to drop a scout and use heightened vision range to spot out heroes for his ultimate would be fun to see.

    I'm still curious on the normal attack, would it work to have a hero that does not have full control of his attacking but uses mini units? And for a hero who BEGINS with an active toggle at level 1 that creates the mini units? Should the Gliders be selectable in that you can set control groups to them(ctrl+1, ctrl+2, etc) so you can control them individually for scouting? You would be able to hit multiple enemies around you with the Gliders, but they attack whatever they want unless you right click/A for attack a specific target.
    Last edited by Cesious; 01-28-2010 at 11:16 PM.

  6. #6
    I did a huge update to the main post with a LOT of potential changes and updates to the hero. Touching it up into a REAL hero creation.

  7. #7
    Bump, love some commentary.

  8. #8
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    Two things. One would be, how do gliders work? Do you control them or are they simply your auto attack.

    Secondly I'm curious about what happens if you're carrying allies and you die. Do the allies you're carrying take damage?

    Interesting idea

  9. #9
    The Gliders would be mini-units inside of the hero itself.

    If you select to attack, right click or leave your hero standing, the hero will stay at its "attack" distance away from the enemy and "auto attack" where the Gliders would come out and attack at the selected target or at any target if there is no pre-selected target and hold is not used. Hold would disable Gliders from coming out of the hero.

    Quick sketches of it in practice:

    [H] = Hero
    [_] = Empty tile for 100 range
    [E] = Enemy
    [S] = Selected Enemy

    So a single target at 500 range would be like this:
    [H][_][_][_][_][S]

    Your hero would stay still due to no attack of its own, Gliders would fly out for their distance and attack, then fly back inside. The hero would still auto-follow its target if they ran out of range of the Gliders.

    In the case of selecting a target:
    [H][E][_][S][_][E]

    In this case, the Gliders would ignore the two enemies on both sides and aim for the one in the middle. Even if the first enemy was attacking the hero the Gliders would pass over to attack.

    In the case of an enemy wave, if you were in distance of the melee and ranged creeps:
    [H][_][_][E][_][E]

    The hero would stay still but the Gliders would auto-acquire a random, closest target and attack. Each time they come back out of the hero they would auto-acquire another random target.

    For your second point, I was thinking of some damage being dealt to the heroes which would give reason to make the airship into a tank of sorts at times, but the heroes as of now would be expelled at the location upon death. So being caught in a team gank would be horrible if planned or executed wrong.

    Thanks for posting, I love getting feedback because it helps me out more.

  10. #10
    I wonder if that confusing post scared people away. XD

  11. #11
    No auto attack is a bad concept, but well the gliders could be quite cool. Providing their damage is generously based upon yours (well the bonuses from items atleast) and they deal a fair amount.

    Also does the ultimate prevent ranged attacks and spells from those you are carrying? If not that's a bit, insane :P

    Also gogo moonqueen, puppet, arachna, pyromancer, airship team. Where the airship has insane tanking items. :P

    Any thoughts on what the stats would be yet? (Esp primary attribute, movespeed)


  12. #12
    The lack of auto-attack isn't exactly a bad concept as the hero would still have an auto-attack through the Gliders, it just wouldn't have your uber 190-200 but instead 40-50 for 4 units for example. The reasoning behind making the production a free skill at level 1 and having a passive skill that increases the hero and Gliders then allows for a shared hotkey. The lack of auto-attack is a new concept, something never before tried yet it could be effective in the end.

    The ultimate is the Flight, so it doesn't help the carrying besides being able to fly them off to places. But the 3rd Skill would protect them from damage and spells while inside. While people might think it's overpowered, you have to think that the Airship would be taking the full focus fire from no other units being around. Unless we could disable chasing until you right click or move specifically at the ground outside, auto attacks and spells could force you to jump out of the airship, but it's still a great initiating strategy.

    Primary Attribute would be Int most likely as it fits the idea of the technological marvel, would give way for Frostfield Plate and such to be used for the hero. Movespeed would probably be up at 305 or 310 as it should be relatively fast. I'm thinking that the hero should be able to hit that 522 mark as one of the major purposes IS the fast movement. I've also been thinking Gliders could fly out at an increasing range with the passive(Start at 250, go up to 450 and they can have an attack range with their bows to extend it to 550-750 possibly).

  13. #13
    A lot of cleaning up, I just need to work up some numbers and plug more in, get a few icons to go with things and I've got a pretty straightened out hero concept ready to put into the real suggestions. Eyes are kind of going wonky from being a little tired though.

  14. #14
    A bit more of work, leaving notes in the notes sections for each skill for possible changes and taking suggestions on numbers.

  15. #15
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    I like the skills and concept... but not the picture/idea. A zeppelin.... really???

  16. #16
    Yes, really. What is surprising or bad about it? It does fit into the story as being a technological marvel and the Legion possesses energy shields, futuristic weapons and vehicles already. In the future they would require some types of transportation as the world of Newerth is generally unexplored and something to get across the wide expanses would be helpful, so the idea of a flying source of transportation comes into play in a steampunk and low-tech pattern.

    The only other theme idea I could think of would be a flying Hellbourne hero that swallows other Hellbourne inside and transfers them with little winged beasts flying out from it. Overlord from Starcraft? :P

    From the guide on the forums about the lore for hero and item creations:
    Humans make use of all sorts of weapons--bows, guns, grenades, sentry guns, and even rocket launchers. Keep this in mind when making a human hero--not all humans are restricted to swords and bows. The Scout pulls out electric eyes, after all.

  17. #17
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    Giant Snorlax that can fly, eat ally heroes and regurgitate them... I would so play that hero.

  18. #18
    Zethos, how did the explanation do for you about the attacks?

  19. #19
    Bump.

  20. #20
    Bump.

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