I don't see a reason to get ghost marchers....
Steam boots give 20 dmg (from backstab) and extra 35 aspd iirc.
You have invis as an escape mechanism so you barely need the phase.
The only reason i could think of is when people are running away and so you turn on phase (with your firebrand) to mass backstab them?
So would the item build be something like Iron Shield - Power Supply - Boots - Firebrand - Frostburn - etc.? And another thing, I'm assuming there is no jungling with this guy, as from what I have seen and read, he is a great farmer on his own.
Great guide, +1 vote for making it Premium
i think this is a premium guide to lol. Great dedication and great material. Im thinking of using this guide since i wanna up my K.D. and still assist.
I read this guide. In general it is very well done.
However, a skilled Scout will absolutely wreck the hell out of an equally skilled Night Hound, especially if the Night Hound stacks agility like you are suggesting.
I recently played a game against one such Night Hound. We were doing equally well and were on our way to carrying the team. In fact, if things kept going the way they were, he would be more farmed than I was and they would win the game.
Now, I could have tried to reveal him using eyes. While effective, this isn't very reliable. Wards are stationary, have limited range, and are on a 30 second cooldown meaning they won't be available on demand.
So I bought a Bound Eye.
He was never able to tell that I had the eye, because during gank attempts I never came out of stealth. I would simply Scout him and make him visible and the rest of my team would own him quickly.
Night Hound has ZERO escape abilities when his invisibilty is countered. This is why he is a huge gamble for the team. If the rest of your team are doing well and you are preventing the other team from gathering too much gold, then you don't have to worry about it too much. But in situations where the other team has the upper hand, you will almost never be able to carry your team out of the mess you are in because the other team will counter you with wards or bound eye and they will make sure you die first.
Scout, on the other hand, can still make himself useful if the other team counters invisibility. He has a long range nuke, he has a silence bomb that he can place IN ADVANCE (meaning he doesn't have to be there to silence the team, unlike Night Hound), and he can disarm carries, significantly reducing their damage output.
Well, concerning the scout with bound eye argument, yes NH is vulnerable to an invisible opponent tracking him down just like anybody else. I ussually hang around OUR gem carrier (or puzzlebox carrier) and as I've said - I don't rely on invisibility, I exploit it just like you do with scout. Also, If you were able to find him alone and gank him, either he was doing it wrong (straying alone with many people missing) or his team was. And NH has 2 more escape mechanisms if he is revealed, but he doesn't have ANY if he is silenced and gangraped somewhere alone, as I have menitioned, and he tends to die if focused just like anyone else except tanks (same as a scout, madman, magebane...). I guess you/your team were better players then the other guys, congrats!
Also, think about it, you scouted a lone guy pushing a lane too deep or farming woods. What's the big deal, you're the scout, and besides - any ganker farms newbies that way! The only difference was that you had to pay 700 gold, waste an item slot in a carry race and risk compromising own invisibility should you die, while you would've done the same thing for free to 98% other guys in the game. If the NH was good I bet he did the same thing to your teammates at least a couple of times during that game
On the other hand, if you had to hold back during team fights not to lose the eye, he should've just done the basic NH thing of letting the initiator go in first and EXPECT to be revealed anyway as he is playing against a Scout. Lol, I say
Also this ties into the "why Ghost Boots" argument from two posts up. Ghost Boots give more movespeed than Steamboots as well as a 10% boost when you need to chase something down or GTFO, and coupled with frostburn that is a lot of movespeed adding another "passive" getaway method to the mix. It does reveal you but something will eventually, and having that movespeed will help you against a dust of revelation or a smartass Scout And you get +20 Dmg from Steamboots after you max Backstab, while with Ghost marchers you gett 24 right away increasing you damage significantly for that stage of the game. Seriously, you get boots, movespeed bonus and 24 damage for 1500, that is probably the most cost efficent damage item in the game.
Last edited by Lujo; 01-02-2010 at 10:53 PM.
Isn't the logic of ghost marchers that the extra hits you get off while chasing would be more damage than +agi steamboots give?
What I do is:
P. Supply> Ghost Marchers > iron buckler > HnS > (and either nullfire or Elder parasite) Works well for me, then really late game: Wingbow.
Btw, I understand that you weren't disagreeing with him but I figured I'd offer some reasoning to those who may.
You don't need the extra movement from ghost marchers since firebrand already gives you a nice boost, and assassin's shroud is another 20% bonus movespeed.
The more assassin's shrouds, the more assassin you are.
I'm in love; 20/6/10. I have yet to top that with my beloved Soulstealer!
Went Marchers first, then quickly built Firebrand, and then finished Enhanced.
After that is was pretty much pwnage all the way. Awesome guide, helped me a great deal!
Guide updated to iclude build with Frostburn since some partybreaker reported my guide as outdated since Slash is no longer in the game.
I think ive missed something somewhere, but is assassins shroud actually good on nighthound? Or is it just people taking the piss?
The only reason i could think of is it granting 125 bonus damage all the time.
I just finished reading the whole thing, for my third time. I re-read it to make sure I didn't miss ANYTHING from this awesome guide, I suggest all to read it as it has changed my opinion on Night Hound by ALOT. I'm going to play some NH games with this awesome guide and hopefully rape. Will edit if I do rape.
Oh yea, I have a very good question...why isn't this premium'd yet? While its really a bit large for what it could be, even with all that detail (some restating) I don't really care, the information is excellent and insightful, the logic is there, and the author has been very respectful and responsive to any questions that have been brought up. The guide is completely up to date for 1.62 as well.
edit: I PM'd sucker about this guide after reading the Premium sticky.
<3 this hero. When I started Dota riki was the first hero I played because my friends insisted I don't try anything other than him and drow.
Nowadays I still have a soft spot for him and hate to see people play him completely wrong. Also dislike the way people begin to whine and complain when you pick him (as if hes a terrible hero while they insist BS and slither are awesome). My build is a bit like yours, although I get elder parasite because I just love the burst of attack speed + movement speed. I've been playing around with frostburn and really do like it, even skipping nullfire.
- Intentionally misquoting users
- Bandwagon statements with non-constructive intent
lmfao the desperation is hilarious --^