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This is a rather simple balance that some people may love or some people may hate, depending on how they use Slithers 3rd skill (his venom wards)
Remove his wards. Replace it with a passive skill that increases Poison damage based on how many poison abilities are stacked.
For example (numbers are only for easy math) His first spell adds 10 damage THEY ARE NOT RIGHT, but keep with me here.
Each charge adds 25% damage to each poison stacked on target.
Amount of charges per Level 1/2/2/3 and reduces poison time (not total damage) by 1/1.75/2.75/3.25 seconds
So one poison on the target does normal damage plus the 25%. Two charges (any combination of the three spells) adds 50% poison DoT to both spells and all three spells stacked each do 75% extra total damage to the target.
So lets show the math.
Toxicity adds 10 magic DPS for 7 seconds (total is 70 damage).
Add the 25 Percent boost and the time shortened and he now does:
~15 damage per second for 6 seconds (total is ~86).
Not a large boost with one charge. Hits a little harder, faster.
2 charges makes it 20 damage a second over 5.25 seconds (total is 105)
3 charges = ~33 DPS over 3.75 seconds (total of about 123)
not a large increase over all with my simple math numbers, but with the actual values and all the spells adding up, this is a significant change to his late game actions, and his ult (pre SOTM) does 81 damage each second for twelve seconds (total 972)
with 3 charges = ~194 a second over about 8 seconds for a total of 1701 damage.
That is rather large and % boost will probably change for just the ult.
so real number now. Hit with all three spell and max level
1) Add Attack - 66 dps over about 4 seconds (but will really last full length as is always refereshed on attack) Total of 173
2)Spell - ~38 dps over about 11 seconds Total of about 440
3)Ult - ~194 a second over about 8 seconds for a total of 1701 damage.
Keep in mind that charges expire when DoT expires and this numbers (especial his normal spell) are a best case over exageration of what would actually happen, due to the various durations and cool downs.
but total damage over 11 seconds assuming all hit at the same first time and does not got refreshed.
first 4 seconds equal 298 DPS at 1192 total. This may be to much and % bonus may change.
And I don't feel like doing any more mental math.
You all can discuss and fiddle with the numbers
Sounds better then his wards, which i have always found pretty much useless.
YOu shouldnt honestly, I saw some slither players that just spam this ****. And it gets confusing for the enemies.Originally Posted by Thysios
You should try once. Get only one level of poison and max the wards, then spam them (they are cheap) see enemies too scared to attack you or see them trying to destroy them while you go do something else or just flank them.
Ward slither is fun mode.
It's a really good idea, seeing as its one of the most useless skills in the game now.
I mean yay a lvl 1-5 push on a lane but you still cant manage to kill a frikkin tower and you wasted your skill build on sh1tty wards that wont support you in killing even the slightest bit.
And if you do manage to push a tower, ur obviously up against melee's, which wouldnt make it hard to push in the first place. Or just kill them with your actual dps spells and then get the tower.
Gief a skill replacing wards, and this idea seems like a good, well thought one. Even though some of the numbers obviously needs some tweaking, but thats up too s2. Generally its a really good idea ><
Holy crap, my head hurts from this. The concept is nice but makes the ganking ability of slither even higher. If you want to change something you need to have a late game skill. That is the problem with slither. All his spells are early game and this just amplifies that phase. It does nothing to the weak late game slither has.
MORE PLAYING, LESS WHINING!!!
His ward are the only spell that make him unique!!
All his other spells are just magic damage that can easily be countered (tp, heal, spellimune, purge, geometers bane).
Never saw a slither pushing first 3 towers within first 10min with wards? .....
So don't remove the wards!
His biggest problem is that he has no escape and no stun...
something should be done here, but by no means remove his wards
Any player who wants to push a tower that early in anything but a push setup, which ironically usually never includes a Slither, is a moron. The only real utility the wards give is the ability to act as a temporary scouting mechanism with a long cast range.
In all reality, they're quite counter-intuitive. Considering Slither's roll as a ganking hero, I feel his skills should reflect that offensive playstyle, and there is nothing more defensive than Venom Ward.
i like his wards but i hate people who use them stupidly. early game i norms get 1 lvl after ive maxed out his first skill just to use in the river or edge of forest while pushing just for some gank prevention. i hate people who get the wards first, go in spam it like crazy and only accomplish wasting mana and giving the enemies more xp and gold.
i dont think slither needs changing, his first skill his deadly early game, his attack bonus makes sure hes usefull throughout the entire game and his ulti is pretty good. hes also the perfect example of a hero who should get shroud early
Maybe the wards should just be able to scale in some sort with his damage, so they are viable for other things than scouting lategame.
Or maybe just give them the slow that is mentioned in the description.
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What? Instant 40 second wards that attack aren't awsome?
It does scale into lategame as sight never stops being useful.
I have returned
But just for sight, Scout and Treant Protector are a lot better, and not only because they are invisible/invincible, but also because they do have some sort of bonus. And they also don't give xp/gold on kill if I'm not mistaken.It does scale into lategame as sight never stops being useful.
Forum Moderators are not S2 Games employees. My posts in no way represent the view of S2 Games or any of its staff.
Please use the report post function
Check the Sticky Threads for additional information on this sub-forum and the Announcement Threads for more information about Heroes of Newerth as a whole!
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5-7 sec? Even at early game with a few stat boost items, me using plague bringer 1hit those wards for really easy 7gold.
I love Slither's wards. An easy fix would be to make the wards' damage be scalable with Slither's damage, maybe have each ward do 2.5/5/7.5/10% of Slither's average damage which would keep them useful late game...maybe increase the slowing effect a tiny bit and put a poison DoT on enemies based on the level of your Toxicity level and have the ward slow/dot and the Toxicity slow/dot stack ONCE (even if you have 5 wards the stack would be ONE from the wards and ONE from Toxicity).
Arachna has an all powerful Slow AND attack speed reduction with her web shot, Slither should at least be close to on par with that - with his being a less powerful Slow and a DoT instead of attack speed debuff.
slither players probably love his wards... but i hate playing with a warding slither... and dont really care about playing against one, omg... you've pushed to our tower OH NOES!!
Team: Hey defiler come gank?
Team(defiler) : sure
DOUBLE TAP
Team(defiler) : Lol ward slither.. fail.
Slither Wards are by no means useless. Here is a number of things you can do with them:
Push a lane early game
Dominate your lane
Kill 2 neutral camps at once
Solo Kongor at lvl 7
Scout areas
(I am not sure about this but theoratically you could place a ward next to the runespot and then let it attack the rune to deny it from the enemies)
Some people say that Slither is bad because he has no escape mechanism, I say that this is wrong. Simply place your wards up cliffs (it has an absolutely high range) and you can see when an enemy approaches. They last for a fairly long time as well. And even if your enemy gets to attack you you can use Poison Spray to slow him and then run away, while you are running away you can still place some wards to see where he goes.
Former pushing set up, Slither just isn't effective anymore unless he's ganking. The metagame right now doesn't involve pushing anyways, either AoeRape or ganking.
A good Slither is going to be using Wards of Sight regardless, and if you're getting Venom Wards that early, you aren't doing your job as a roamer/ganker.
Yes, because why would I use a cheap ability that costs 20 mana when I can pay 200 gold for the same thing.
They aren't the same thing, not even close. By getting Venom Ward as a substitute for Wards of Sight, you're sacrificing your ganking ability, which is what makes Slither a decent hero, without it he's a mediocre AoE hero.
Unless you don't advocate being the ward ***** as Slither, in that case, you're playing him incorrectly.
Please keep in mind I'm looking at this from a higher level perspective than pub play. He is simply not effective as a Pusher. With no escape mechanism, and a tower killing ability that forces him to specialize, one is just better off going Ganker/Ward***** as Slither.
I disagree with this a bit as an avid Slither player. The wards not only help you push, but they often help you get the last hit on a creep giving you gold and help prevent the other team from denying because you have 4-5 wards and you all doing damage to a creep. I usually have 1800g by the time my wards hit level 2-3.
Wards are great for scouting ahead of you, behind you, to the sides, etc.
Another posibility is that the wards could reveal stealth for 2 seconds when they are dropped, or even having them reveal stealth for 2s, then not reveal stealth for 2s, then reveal stealth for 2s, etc. Since EVERY game has Scout in it because he's so OP, Slither could be a VERY good counter to Scout, like Pestilence is.
Last edited by Mnoma; 10-07-2009 at 01:34 PM.
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