Voodoo Jester vs Witch Doctor

[Certa]

This thread will be comparing the HoN hero Voodoo Jester and the DotA hero Witch Doctor which it is based on. There are two, though very significant differences between HoN's Voodoo Jester, and the DotA Witch Doctor it's based off of.

Reference Links:
HON hero(Voodoo Jester) http://www.heroesofnewerth.com/heroview.php?hid=27

DOTA hero (Witch Doctor) http://web.dota-allstars.com/heroes/2917

What's Wrong:
1: Maledict/Cursed Ground: Maledict deals 4 procs of damage based off of damage taken. Cursed Ground deals 4 procs of damage based off of health lost (since the curse was applied). What this means is anyone can get cursed, take damage that, with Maledict would be fatal, but can heal up and avoid death with Cursed Ground. This significantly weakens Cursed Ground against: lifesteal, healer hero/team, tangoes (early game), and allows targets to TP to base after stun is over, then heal up before the 3rd or 4th procs that would typically kill. Another thing: I BELIEVE Maledict does chaos damage, and Cursed Ground does magic damage. I'm not 100% certain of this.

2: Spirit Ward/Death Ward: Spirit Ward does Physical damage. Death Ward does chaos damage. Spirit Ward splits attack. Death Ward bounces attacks.

What this means:

A. Any armor will significantly reduce the effectiveness of an already hard to use ultimate. Typical armor is ~30%-50% less damage taken, so instead of 120 chaos damage a hit, it's 80, or even 60. Shield/vanguard heroes would take only 60/even 20 damage a hit, completely decimating this ultimate.
B. Split vs Bounce: Split hits up to 3 targets. Bounce bounces between the targets, resulting in the possibility of hitting those who just ran out of range and need one more hit to die.

Possible Fixes:

1a: Buff Cursed Ground by making it a higher % of damage taken. Since Maledict can be combined with a chaos-damage skill, it's not too bad. However, Cursed Ground has no chaos-damage skill to be combined with.
AND/OR
1b: Reduce Cursed Ground's AoE. If you're going to strengthen the numbers, it would be best to make sure the skill can't effect the whole team without CONSIDERABLE setup.

2: Buff Cursed Ground's AOE. If you're going to keep the numbers small, you might as well make it hit everyone.

3a: Make Spirit Ward True damage.
3b: Buff Spirit Ward's damage, since it's mitigated by magic armor.

4: If we have damage from two weaker sources, why not add a third souce? If the stun was allowed to deal damage, we would be able to significantly heighten the effects of Cursed Ground.

Conclusion:

Voodoo Jester is significantly weaker than Witch Doctor, though the weakness shows the best in late game, where his ultimate does very low damage, and cursed ground can be negated almost completely by Khadgar's Pipe (not sure of HoN name).

I'm not sure if these nerfs are intentional or not, but as a player who played WD in competitive levels, the differences are very, very clear. Please consider this post.

[[Wolf]Trysaeder]

They are both the same other than the mojo skill.

Cursed ground and maledict both check the difference between current hp and hp since the spell started, and deals damage based on that. It does not count damage at all. That's why a maledicted enemy who is sundered will die.

Chaos damage and hero damage are the same for all practical purposes, since the ward cannot attack anything else. Chaos damage does not ignore armor value, it just ignores armor type. Pure damage ignores armor value, but there is no way of giving a unit pure damage without triggers. Chaos is the little green ball of energy you see the centaurs and some other neutral creeps having. If chaos ignored armor value, then it would be impossible to jungle against those creeps, as each hit does as much as a level 1 nuke.

[[S2]Idejder]

Trysaeder is right, a lot of what you said is incorrect.

[Llama]

Although I could be wrong, I think witch doctor recent got a 5+ starting INT boost (and -5 base dmg to even it out) to help with early mana problems. Would love to see this implemented <3

[ToRpiD]

The new heal is much more powerful than the old heal.

[[Wolf]Trysaeder]

That was Lina.

[Certa]

Really? I was pretty sure Maledict worked on damage taken rather than health lost. I'd of easily bet $100. In that case, oops! My bad. Close thread please.

So Spirit Ward doesn't get owned hardcore by Vanguard?

[[S2]ElementUser]

Trysaeder is right.

The real reason why Voodoo Jester is weaker than Witch Doctor is because Mojo<Voodoo Restoration (I tried a skill build that incorporated getting Mojo early game, epic fail).

[Llama]

That was Lina.

Taken from here http://www.getdota.com/changelogs/index/60

* Witch Doctor: Increased base Intelligence from 19 to 24 (base damage adjust to remain the same though)

Can we have this change pretty please?

[[S2]ElementUser]

In that case, I think it would be a fantastic idea for a buff to his starting mana!

[[Wolf]Trysaeder]

Wow, I could have sworn that lina got that 5 int/-5 damage thing as well.

[edit]: Guess not.

[Certa]

Is Spirit Ward affected by vanguard/physical damage reduction?

[Llama]

In that case, I think it would be a fantastic idea for a buff to his starting mana!

Horray! I think lina did indeed get the same buff, it was just some patches before that. [EDIT] Yeah, your right, it shows she got the same buff here http://www.playdota.com/changelogs/6.63

@certa: Ward is affected by physical reduction, but not Vanguard/sheild blocks (anymore, thank goodness)