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Good (needs more work of course)
Bad (i'll state my reason in a response)
I prefer trolling polls and the game :/
Better GM'ing - Page system + RAP.
First step to a better and bigger/more popular game, is a community that knows theres consequences to how you behave yourself when playing the game.
I can't link it, but I'll gladly explain you the basics.Originally Posted by Senior GM Thysios
I can't link it, because most of the concept of DOTA2 is still under NDA, but
I can gurantee you that you'll see it soon enough, if you intend to check out
the release or maybe be part of the priv beta.
To answer your question;
I made a custom page system for another game called Ultima Online, for a freeshard that had 30k users and where all GMs were volunteers
== NOT getting paid, just like the gms in HoN.
I'll use hon as example, as to how i'd build a filtered page system.
Firstly, the direct page system would be a compliment to the current RAP system, not a replacement - you'd still have the ability to file reports for cases where immediate contact isn't required.
Secondly, the HoN gms would need to be allowed to join ongoing matches, as spectators and have the power to intervene if they deem it needed (kick/ban).
Thirdly, you'd have a filter on your page system, something along the lines of what I made for the private server, so ->
REMEMBER, all of these "checks" would be coded, so not something the GM had to "check" manually, the GMs would just see the results, so they can act swiftly and accordingly.
Is the page from a player currently in a game and does the gameID from the time the page was sent match with the gameID the player is currently in.
- PageWeight.
If so, you know that the caller is still in the actual game that he wants GM assistance for,
so filing a report isn't an option for him/her and you as a GM, may be able to "salvage" this game or at the very least,
be a transparrent example to the other 9 players that violating Hon's rules, gets you banned.
Next step, are there more pages in the queue, with the same matching gameID, if not, then this page should be ignored and the user should instead turn to the RAP system,
as it clearly is only him who has an issue, not the other 9 players.
However, if there are 3-4+ pages in the system, all with the same matching gameID, then you KNOW its a page worth taking, because there has to be someone breaking the rules,
and in the rare cases where you might be trolled by 4+ players all sending abuse calls, although no-one is breaking the rules, then you follow the next step->
We had a simple toggle on all player accounts, where our GMs could toggle the reputation of any account, so that if someone grew a habit of sending pages for no reason,
- PlayerAccountReputation.
then his account would be in negative reputation and his pageweight would go down in a scale, depending on how much reputation he had lost of course.
You have to understand, even with 30k users, the false pages were never a big issue, because people learnt quickly that sending false pages really didn't do them any good,
it only rendered their account in "bad standing", and even if there will always be a FEW trolls who don't care, it didn't matter much for our GMs workload, due to the next step->
The magic word! this is the word that will deliver a good experience for everyone playing our game, theres a consequence to how you act.
- Consequence.
All accounts also had a "page" toggle, where a GM could toggle so an account could not page for X amount of time (or permanently) - this was
designed specifically in order to deal with sudden ragers, who may just have a bad day, and so the GM could just shut down his page ability for
48hours, without any hazzle, just a click of a button, or shut it off permanently, if the user was deemed an utterly useless troll.
Not only did our players through this Page & RAP system, quickly SEE and learn, that there are consequences to breaking the rules set out by the game company,
but also the people who were abused, felt justified and felt it was actually worth their time, filing out reports when needed, and using the
direct page method, in cases only when needed, because if they used it wrongly, their own account reputation went down, and next time they may
really need a GM directly, their page would carry less weight in the queue.
Communication.
Another undervalued word, when designing your anti-abuse systems. If you design a system that does 0 communication, then you really can't expect this system
to hold any weight in terms of scaring future potential rule-breakers, nor does it make any abused customers feel any relief what so ever, if theres 0 communication.
We had "auto responses", much like what you'd see in MMOs, where GMs can send a whisper to a player.
One GM could easily handle a pages from hundreds of players, WITH all the filters helping him - as I said, I only mentioned a few filter ideas from the top of my head for "hon",
but there are undoubtedly a lot more good ones. But say for example ONE gm had to handle 100 pages alone and in 1h, well it was never a big problem, because
once the pages went through the auto-filtering, they'd drop down to only few ones with high PageWeight and even less of them would really be ones he actually needed
to goto and witness abuse "live". All the other pages with not so high pageweight, would only be 1 click to send an auto-reponse along the lines of " please refer to the RAP system,
if you feel strongly that any rules has been violated blah blah"
And the longer the system ran, the less false pages would come in, because people got used to it not being worth trying to "be funny"
with "false" pages, it only screwed themselves over.
More importantly, with the system being transparent, it was a godsend to players when they would see this super-abusive guy, being removed from the game.
They saw justice, and other potential trolls, saw what happends if they give in to their "troll urges", all of this meant there were more incentive for everyone
to stick to the game rules and behave somewhat normal or atleast in accordance to the rules.
Now there were several more filters in our system, but i'm just giving a few examples for a system that worked wih 30k players, and volunteer GMs, who
was never paid a dime, but did the work for the love of the game, same as HoN gms do for HoN.
The system carried its own weight in gold because it was transparrent for everyone to see and they saw it working.
Word of mouth travels fast, so why bother being a major troll, if you know exactly whats going to happen, it's kinda same logic you apply to raising children,
they have to know exact consequences of breaking X/Y rule, otherwise they don't respect them - it's an old concept but it's solid and basic when running
an online game.
Sending endless reports into what seems like a blackhole, never to know if anything happends with YOUR report, and with the bastard who ruined YOUR game,
only increases the chances of people trolling, not the opposite.
And having GM's actually at times in need, show up and intervene, not only helped all the players who felt offended and abused, but it also served as
a pre-emptive strike against other potential trolls - they SEE what happends, and that makes them think a little harder and a little longer.
The RAP system that hon has, really does nothing for the players who are abused, and it does nothing good for the gamemasters either, because it doesnt
lower any chances of more abuse happening, because it's a hidden system, something that only takes place behind closed doors, as opposed to a system that has
the best of both worlds combined, and through it's transparency (when NEEDED), also works as a (grr whats the word? ... u know what i mean...)...
It lowered our workload as soon as people got used to how it was working and the fact that it wasn't worth it trying to troll that system, cus with the tools mentioned
above, you were quickly just shut out from it, and then stuck with only being able to "file reports" the old way.
When the general population feels their need has been met, then there's just less trolling, less raging and more harmony.
As opposed to sending reports to god knows where, and you never know if anything happens.
/
Last edited by FringeX; 06-13-2011 at 12:05 AM.
Please add a poll so that people can vote on it, that way your idea can go further.
done
bump
bump
:/ can't edit ongoing polls
bump, I know it's a long read, but i wish some GMs would read this aswell, esp since it was Senior GM Thysios who asked me the question about how a page-system could work.
TLDR... Well more like I read 1/2 and it wasn't explained well. And I'm in my 3rd year of Game Programming.
you ...serious ... ?
3rd year of game programming and half an A4 page gets you ..
You should be used to rough schemes, "mindpapers", and stuff that needs further digestion & explination.
I don't even ... uhm ..!?
Last edited by FringeX; 06-12-2011 at 11:45 PM.
Anyone voting no, w/o a post with an atleast halfassed response how come they wouldn't want this, should just be disregarded.
I hope GMs and people involved with S2 will take an interest in reading this thread, as you really can't & shouldn't have, to ask a community with this many trolls, to vote in a system that serves to help achieve a community that has a lot less idiots (to be frank) because theres more transparrent consequences.
/
It's interesting, but it would require quite some development. We don't have the input template fixed yet, let alone adding a ongoing game spectator join it.
Worth reading.
Imho its a good system.
only people against this would be the trolls who enjoy messing around in game.
bump
bumpz
Any post regarding a pagesystem like UO's has my vote.
May i ask which shards' system you've coded, i reckon if 30k users it's probably one of the known ones.
more feeeedback pls, GMs where are you ..
bumpz
But the only issue is S2 doesn't give 2 shits about trolling and almost promotes it. They are childish when it comes to trolls.
but a troll knows best how to fight trolls!
Cmon S2, you have to admit, it's not THAT hard to implement things that would overall better the gaming experience for everyone and help foster
a less troll'ish community.
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