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Tbh I think that's pretty bad advice.First of all, when you first learn to play...ause for emphasis:
DO NOT BURDEN YOURSELF BY BUYING WARDS OR CHICKEN
There. I said it.
You're a new player, you need every advantage you can get in order to develop your skills. Yeah, your team might flame you. But honestly, don't pay attention to that. These people are also low rated for a reason. Remember that just because you're a certain hero doesn't mean you have to do certain things. I have seen plenty of games where "support heroes" carry the games. e.g. Witch Slayer, Pyro, Zeus, Succubus and many more...
What happens when he stops playing like an ass and starts helping his team? He'll be forced to cope with no money and no items, and if he's not used to doing this and not capable of doing this he'll just feed, drag his team down, and throw matches.
And wind up right back where he started again.
And I'll also point out you've got another thing coming if you classify no courier/wards as an "advantage". They're so vital even carry players will chip in for some if their supports are being dickheads and not buying them.
Also, Thunderbringer, not a support hero. Never has been and certainly not after spellshards was introduced to the game. Why? Because if you give him farm he goes off his tits DPSwise. Witchslayer does not.
Last edited by Triumph`117; 02-09-2011 at 04:32 AM.
That's terrible advice. Buy wards and courier. It's easy to play support heroes when you're not actually supporting. Because you don't buy wards you can get PK, Glowstone, loads of HP, movement items, stormspirits, tablets, sheepsticks... then you survive fights even if you stun badly or miniaturize the wrong target, you kill someone with ulti and you think you're doing a good job, when in fact you aren't really. Your carry can use that gold so much more, and someone else who might have sucked it up to buy wards can most likely use the gold more. The only argument I might agree with on this is that if you have a jester (i.e. another support) then you can get away with no wards (but chip in for the courier + upgrade at the beginning).
problems with lasthitting ? ur not supposed to lasthit
u dont know which hero to stun (and when) ?
its the 1+1 in hon,...
is there a temp in the enemy team ? get him or just wait till he ults and stun ?!?!
is ur carry in danger ?!?! help him ??
theres rly no question needed for that
u ve a pk ? u see a chance to initiate and to stun an important hero of their lineup? get him
the BIGGEST problem -low psr/mmr players- have is that they always think too much, they are scared to do something wrong and thats why they ll always fail and wont improve - if ur under 1800 then it doesnt matter if u fall to 1600 or to 1200,.. just play ur game and dont be afraid +.+
Gross exaggeration? I really don't think you understand how good a Portal Key is on someone who has 2 disables, one of them AoE. Portal Key is not just for the positioning; it is also about the timing of such a stun.Originally Posted by Porchape
Witch Slayer is exactly like Tempest in this respect. They can both function without Portal Key; but work so optimally with one that it is considered a core item. Witch Slayer obv works a lot better without a Portal Key, but both of the heroes function well without it and optimally with it.
Landing that perfect stun on 3-4 heroes means very little if there isn't a way to take advantage of it.
Most of your examples are against a completely braindead team that are otherwise all mass disabled for you and not able or willing to disable you back.
This is rarely the case even in any kind of pub game.
As for the Pebbles example, PK allows you to keep up with him. How is this bad in any way? :/
Let me spell it out plain for you
Angry people complain about the things I do
I'm not changing direction, I'm stepping my game up
Maintaining my name, the same way I came up.
Truth is, I thought it mattered
I thought that music mattered.
But does it? Bollocks!
Not compared to how people matter.
money doesnt grow on trees bro
I don't know if you watched any/all of the recent $3000 HON tournament finals, but one of the teams had a WS during either the 1st or 3rd game. The WS's role was to buy wards all game, and always lagged behind the rest of the team by around 4 levels. He was considered successful if he could get off his stun+minimize+ultimate ONCE in a teamfight before being blown up. His team ended up winning.
IMO, for <1500psr... if the game is going well in your favor, buy a pk. If you're struggling for money, buy stiders, run up to enemies, use your disables and throw out your ultimate, then run away until your spells cool.
they crap out when you're within 900 yards of an enemy now
i ****ing hate striders. with a passion. almost every time i've bought them i've told myself "never again!" as they don't come with any kind of stats/survival and you never have the speed when you actually need it. the only exception was on pyro a couple days ago, but it was alright cus i picked up a pk :P
imo when in doubt go plated, they are a touch faster than steams, much faster than striders (at least they are when it matters, in a combat situation), provide a bit of stats+armor, and are the cheapest of the good boots
@Distrust, definitely I will.
@Porchap. I firmly agree with you on the importance of Witch's first ability. In late games especially you must value his first second ability even some time more than his ulti.
I just played two games today, 1 no stat, 1 stat, decent score, but not superior in my opinon on witch, so here is some of my opinion for the community to hear.
1) Know what you teammates' abilities are. And like you said coordination.
The best example I can give for this on Witch is in my second game with Mymordone. (I am not sure I spelled that right, but that is not the point here).
And it goes like this.
Mymor stun. WS auto attack. Mymor grass grasp (a habit I think it has been for players). WS auto attack. WS miniaturize. Mymor auto attack. WS Stun (pretty much dead)
I think the key is to really value his second ability.
@Anakha, for noobie like me who only enters no stat and 1600+ rooms, I just completely forget about the portal key business. In my opinion, WS if do portal elevates' its difficulty much more. 1st, your stun is not like tempest, it is a straight line. It is much harder. And of all the demo's I have watched, and some from EG's Fujiapple, who play a lot of WS, I had never seen him do that.
@Everybody else. WS have to by ward and chicken. That is a 100%. But the mistake that is commonly made is Warding for WHAT! You don't have to light up the whole map. 6 min ward, that is a must, and that is still for rune.
Warding takes some management. If your team have hard carries, and they need farm, ward top jungle, and focus there. If they have carry, when there is a teammate fight, bring some ward, and just put in their jungle.
There are players who just do wards like crazy, and late games there is hardly any wards in stock.
WS is not easy to play if you want to play it well. And that is why it has continuously appeared on the professional scene.
Last edited by samuraiCHN; 02-09-2011 at 07:49 PM.
Striders are meant to provide a way to quickly travel the map... which is good for support like WS. Saves you money on TPs. My point was that if your game isn't going good, you're never going to afford a PK, so you'll want something that will allow you to travel fast where you're needed most at lowest cost.
Generell you buy most of the times striders. If your farm is somewhat good you can also go steamboots, never buy ghostmarchers. PK is good, but only as long as your team can follow it up. In generell you also have to get stats after you maxed your two stuns or you will not be able to combo effective with a pk.
If your team has no real initiation besides you, you might better of with buying just normal supportitems.
Btw PK is only core if you play ws mid.
Not sure if you're serious...First of all, when you first learn to play...
DO NOT BURDEN YOURSELF BY BUYING WARDS OR CHICKEN
There. I said it.
You're a new player, you need every advantage you can get in order to develop your skills. Yeah, your team might flame you. But honestly, don't pay attention to that. These people are also low rated for a reason. Remember that just because you're a certain hero doesn't mean you have to do certain things. I have seen plenty of games where "support heroes" carry the games. e.g. Witch Slayer, Pyro, Zeus, Succubus and many more...
Now, let's talk about your hero.
Witch Slayer is a fragile hero that has 2 disables, a mana drain and an ultimate.
Here is my skill build:
Impale (Your first skill, it's an AOE stun. I don't know the name)
Stats
Impale
Stats
Impale
Ultimate
Impale
Why am I recommending stats? Because your current mana pool can NOT support two highly mana intensive skills. (It's like Starcraft. You don't build 6 barracks on one base because you CANNOT support it with your resources.)
A feature about Impale is that it is activated by clicking on the enemy hero. A common mistake I see new players do is "whiffing" the stun by clicking the ground near the enemy hero.
Don't do it. It's better to guarantee that your stun hits.
At lvl 6, you are almost guaranteed to get a kill. (At your current MMR level anyways) Try this: At level 4 or 5, use your stun and auto attack an enemy hero in your lane. Try not to aggro too many creeps and take hits. Once the creep wave is over and you hit level 6, you should have enough mana remaining to combo a stun/ultimate the hurt hero for a kill. Rinse and repeat. Do NOT hesitate to use your ultimate to "kill steal". There's no such thing. (Well... in a higher level game, try and give your kills to Sand Wrath or something. But right now don't worry about it, that low MMR Sand Wrath or Scout probably fails anyways)
Witch Slayer is a great solo mid hero. Although I guarantee your team won't let you because they don't know any better, just know that in the off-chance that you do get a chance to solo... DO IT. You'll dominate the game. Anyways, you'll mostly be forced top or bottom. Just pick any. Would be nice if your partner has a stun/slow.
Strategy in lane: Abuse the range. Abuse the attack animation.
Witch Slayer's attack is surprisingly strong. If you're facing two melee heroes, or one melee hero, you're in a great position. Attack once, run away from creeps. Attack again, run away from creeps.
Tip: To gain the aggressive pressure in the lane, use your stun when he does not have creep support and attack him. Keep him scared that he may die at any moment.
Anyways, add me in game if you want to 1v1 no stats me for practice.
Check out my guide for PuB games and the new Match Making! ***Updated 7/7/2010***
Vote for my DREAM hero The Elementalist
The perfect Soulstealer/Tempest Annihilation/Genocide
台灣人? Clan HrX is for you!
2150 is expensive, ye? Farming isn't the only way to get money bro.
There have also been cases where Lion was actually the focus of the tri-lane to get him an early PK, much like Hammerstorm. What's your point?
Fogged is one person I've seen utilize a Portal Key with a decent early-game. You'll rarely see it in HoN as people don't put Witch Slayer mid like DotA players put Lion solo mid.@Anakha, for noobie like me who only enters no stat and 1600+ rooms, I just completely forget about the portal key business. In my opinion, WS if do portal elevates' its difficulty much more. 1st, your stun is not like tempest, it is a straight line. It is much harder. And of all the demo's I have watched, and some from EG's Fujiapple, who play a lot of WS, I had never seen him do that.
As for being harder than Tempest's ult to land, is that a joke? How on earth is giving yourself an additional tool to land a decent stun making it HARDER?
Logic fail much?
I think this account is at 1500 now, and even I can use a pk to stun. Get better.
Last edited by Anakha; 02-10-2011 at 12:42 PM.
Let me spell it out plain for you
Angry people complain about the things I do
I'm not changing direction, I'm stepping my game up
Maintaining my name, the same way I came up.
Truth is, I thought it mattered
I thought that music mattered.
But does it? Bollocks!
Not compared to how people matter.
Yes, PK gives WS much more advantage, be it ganking, or escaping.
But, it is not the best option for learning IMO..
So here's my suggestion:
Once game starts, buy courier if you are going for short lane ( lane with pullable neutral camps ), and buy 2 wards of sight for long lane, plug them at rune spot and at enemy's pullable neutral camp.
As a support hero, teammates will be expecting wards from you. However, for early - mid game, i personally think that 2 wards up is enough. One ward is always put at rune spot, and you plug the other one depends on situation. Plug it at enemy's jungle if you are pushing, and your own jungle if you are defending, or stalling the game.
For early - mid item build, go for survival items IMO. Maybe two bracers and striders for boots is enough. However, always bring TP scrolls with you, so you can help teammates if they are getting ganked or getting pushed.
ground-targeting the Graveyard skill gives you more advantage of stunning more heroes. However, it has a decent miss probability if not timed or targeted well. Single-clicking a graveyard may not give you the best result but it stuns at least one enemy. So i'd recommend you by learning to accurately single click a graveyard
Hope this helps.
Lane with pullable camp is Long Lane. Guys, can we just say Hard and Easy? Then I won't have to get angry reading that **** anymore.
Either way, this is the point. He's 1639 PSR and 1569 MMR with over 80% Witch Slayer played.
To be brutally honest, if you can't figure out the mechanics behind using a Portal Key "because it's too hard" at that point, maybe that hero or this game isn't for you. Buy the damn thing, and even if you don't use it once, when the situation comes up that you need it, you'll have it. Bleh.
Let me spell it out plain for you
Angry people complain about the things I do
I'm not changing direction, I'm stepping my game up
Maintaining my name, the same way I came up.
Truth is, I thought it mattered
I thought that music mattered.
But does it? Bollocks!
Not compared to how people matter.
A thing which has not been mentioned yet but gets more and more important as you get higher in MMR is to judge your mana pool. If you are being the ward ***** and fairly underleveled compared to your allies, then your mana pool might not be large since you probably won't have enough farm. In this case, you must also judge whether or not to use your ultimate in team fights.
When I say this, I mean scenarios where you are able to avoid dying immediately from the onslaught of enemy spells and attacks after using your initial stun and miniturize. Now, do you use the rest of your mana to ult or do you back off into the fog of war while your allies are in the fight so that the cooldown for the stun and miniturize are complete so that you can come back into the fight to stun again? Slowly, your ability to judge for such scenarios will improve your gameplay.
Also, as a tip for portal key use, consider flanking your opponents. Usually, teams face off and the squishy heroes are positioned towards the back. Well, if you know there's going to be a faceoff, you could preemptively portal key into the woods off to the side. Now, they won't expect an enemy coming from the side as much from spots that you normally can't juke into and you aren't as likely to be hit by an aoe and can more easily reach the back of the enemy group to disable a key enemy such as a behemoth or hellbringer who is just waiting for your allies to initiate. Of course, this requires good team coordination.
The best I have discovered so far. Something that is actually REALLY good. I am not saying others are not good, but this is defiantly something. Thank you very much!
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