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So I been playing with this hero for quit a while now. Witch is a really slow, at the beginning, and fragile hero. Last hitting and deny foris not that easy especially. There are couple questions I wonder if the community can help me on.
1) During a teammate fight your stun is defiantly a key to win. But how do you ensure a perfectly good one or at least not bad? Of the last game I played, I failed my stun two times. It was bad, and my teammates were mad at me.
2) The same kind of question, but one level up. Now you have your magical portal. You are thinking of going in and stun and be the one who initiate. But you are extremely fragile.
In addition, I will be VERY VERY VERY Happy to hear any tip you guys have on
Thank you.
Last edited by samuraiCHN; 02-09-2011 at 01:17 AM.
You're playing casual mode. Witch isn't a hero who does well in that game mode.
For your first issue ws stun can target either a hero or you can choose to cast it manually (clicking on the ground) so if you are having trouble landing ur stun just click right on the enemy hero and you should be fine.
For your second issue initiating with witch can work in smaller team fights or ganks but for 5 v 5 it's dangerous because of ur lower hp pool. If you have a hero like behemoth or tree for example, they would initiate first with you blinking in and using ur spells behind them. I say ur good for going into smaller team fights or gangs because you have enough spells to disable 2 or more heroes allowing your teammates to jump in. It's very important to let your team know ur going in, rushing things will only get you killed.
Hope this helped!!
Last edited by Quinnal; 02-08-2011 at 06:40 PM.
@ Quinnal. You made a good point there about not initiating with a 5vs 5 play.
Usually in 5v5 teamfights, Witch wants to TP in after the real initiator. In skirmishes and ganks, however, he's the go-to guy for initiation stuns.
Correct me if I am wrong, for often I am.
But portal is NOT a Core item for witch. Sure if your farm is good and you got some gank money before 20:00 mark, sure buy a portal, but other than that, forget about it.
I have been doing this for a while and realize this now. In a team fight, if for example, behmeth stun maybe 3, and you just port in. I don't care how many of them you got, it is just pliantly stupid because what happens next is that they are going to all aim at you.
I fully agree with Kudrayvka.
I think the right way for Witch is a kind of back store strategy. Where it is in almost middle of the fight, you kinda of go back door, because at that time, in pub at least, players tend to aim one after the other so they are close to each other, and stun that way is much easier. Don't portal and stun right away unless you got like 1900+PSR or professional or crazy fast reaction.
Am I right? What do you think?
Last edited by samuraiCHN; 02-08-2011 at 08:39 PM.
witch slayer is a support hero so that means your ability to play with your team is key to your performance. so when it comes time to fight roll with your homies and watch their movements very carefully. WS stuns last around 3 seconds, that means to be 80% effective you need to have your dps carry come in within 0.6 seconds of your disable. practice moving as one with your team and the fact that you are squishy should no longer be of concern.
If those idiots are aiming you after you've burned 3 spells, who cares? You'd rather they wasted effort taking you down than going after your carry, who's going to kill them.I have been doing this for a while and realize this now. In a team fight, if for example, behmeth stun maybe 3, and you just port in. I don't care how many of them you got, it is just pliantly stupid because what happens next is that they are going to all aim at you.
Stun, minimise, ult the highest priority target, then try to back off. If you extricate yourself successfully don't run too far, be ready to go back in as soon as your stun is off CD again. If you die? No big loss if you managed to draw some heavy fire off your teammates, as long as you managed to hit several high priority targets with your initial 3 spells then you've already been highly effective. It's up to your team to make the most of your set up.
You're playing support so get used to getting beat up in teamfights late into the game.
Last edited by Triumph`117; 02-08-2011 at 10:56 PM.
Great deeds you all have done for me here. And especially @Porchape. Thanks a lot man. Ye, I realized that recently and been playing A LOT of no stat with Witch and trying to move in and out of teammate fight and do the right thing at the right time. Thanks again.
1) First of all if you want to get good at playing ws do what you are supposed to do, buy either a courier / ward. Second of all level your 2 first skills (level mana drain last)
And about your stun, If they are in target of your stun then target them with your stun, that way you cant miss. if your not close enough you could target the ground that means your stun gets a little bit longer range. Also in teamfights if people are lined up try to hit the ground and hit multiple people. Your second skill can be used to counter channeling spells suchs as pollywoggs grip, tempest ultimate etc.
2) THis isnt only up to you, only initiate if your team is ready or if you can kill their carry or a keyplayer alone, only then its worth it. you want to blink use graveyard, then let your team come in for support (use your second skill if needed to) You should also use your ult at the start of the fight to get as much burst damage out as possible)
People often tend to level mana drain in early levels on ws, its wrong, you get 10 times more out of levling up your crowd controll abilities.
The key to mastering a good ws it to know when you should initiate, when to target the player / the ground with your graveyard stun. Even though your ult does damage dont be afreid to use it, allways try to get it off before you die to get in as much burst as possible.
Gl using ws
Treads->PK is about as core as it gets. I like an early Ring of the Teacher as well, for general pushing and making sure your wave doesn't die from bashing on the tower, which you get the opportunity to at least a few times in the game.
Mana Drain is situational, and never really worth it in a sidelane except against terribad lanes. Mana Drain over Mini is a solo mid only thing, and only worth doing against certain opponents (dr, tb, bomb).
If initiating on a lone target, use Mini first. Not Graveyard. Graveyard is for the oshi- more coming! moments after initiating a gank on someone, and Mini makes hitting Graveyard about 10x easier, and gives you more opportunity to line up more people to hit with Graveyard if they happen to be nearby.
Know when to use treadswapping, especially when using Mana Drain on neutrals/Bottle/Chalice if you have it.
Let me spell it out plain for you
Angry people complain about the things I do
I'm not changing direction, I'm stepping my game up
Maintaining my name, the same way I came up.
Truth is, I thought it mattered
I thought that music mattered.
But does it? Bollocks!
Not compared to how people matter.
@ Anakha. Why is portal key "as core as it gets". I am somewhat hesitating on that, for it really depending on how are you fighting with.
For example, I just had a game where we have on our team a pebble. he got a portal key. I bought one too, but think back it is really a waste of money. He ports in, stun, and that is about 3 sec or 4, anyway, enough for me to go line up, and stun, almost perfect every time in a 3v4 or 5v5 team fight. $2100 is just a waste of money at that moment.
no problem OP, witch slayer was the first hero i ever learned and only after a long while did i learn how important his stuns and coordination are. i always laugh when someone on my team has a portal key and just abruptly teleports 1200 units away into a group of enemies and then gets pwned and QQ's at us because we weren't there with him. its not like we can instantly teleport or even read his mind as to what he is doing. nowadays if i feel like my team is not on the same playing field as me and i plan on initiating i give a little break down as to what i am going to do when we are all grouped up and ready to go. HON is all about team work and WS is definitely one of those heroes that can bring everything together. its a really great feeling when you play well with your team and everything flows. happy gg's
Are you saying that there is no point to positioning yourself and your stuns perfectly in any given situation?
Let me spell it out plain for you
Angry people complain about the things I do
I'm not changing direction, I'm stepping my game up
Maintaining my name, the same way I came up.
Truth is, I thought it mattered
I thought that music mattered.
But does it? Bollocks!
Not compared to how people matter.
Depends what you're doing. If you're playing the ward ***** then don't go for a PK. Pick up all the cheap survivability you can find, and then build a tablet or something. You're never going to farm a PK in any useful amount of time anyway.
Now on the other hand if a handy dandy Glacius is taking care of the warding for you then you can try and farm a PK, and some other nice toys.
The point of a PK is the second you see the enemy form up into a bad position (i.e. 3 of them line up diagonally for a second) you can blink in and capitalise on the error by hitting all 3 of them. You can't do that just running into a fight. And often stunning half the team instead of 1 of them can make or break a team fight.
@anakha what you suggest is a gross exaggeration of what was a very considerate and reserved remark about determining your item build based on your team makeup. of course one wants to "stun perfectly" and position themselves correctly but sometimes your team makeup is such that a pk offers such marginal benefit to your team fight ability that the money is better spent elsewhere.
Porchape, an example of such a lineup please.
hmm okay, you have Keeper on your team or valkyrie for invis initiation. perhaps you and your homie playing pebs like to roll together and you would rather save the 2.1k and put it towards your prodex (in this case it is assumed pebs has a pk or likes to toss you LOL). bubbles has great range initiation which will hold the team in place for you to casually walk up and stun like the pimp slayer you are. or maybe the other team has a tb or sw that screws with your initiation which would put your pk on cd in big team fights. maybe your team has a really great pk initiator but your carries are fragile and low mobility(archna, FA, swiftblade, MQ), in this case you would want to stay very near to your carries and move up after the behe.
end of the day though you have to judge your teams and the opposing teams ability and play style and make decisions on a game by game basis.
/edit
with all this being said, however, i play to win and have fun. and PK's IMO are FUN
Last edited by Porchape; 02-09-2011 at 03:39 AM.
PK is the next best item right after wards. With good positioning you dont need HP/STR items, movement/juking/initiating/escaping is so much better with it.
PK is useful for any role WS has to do.
First of all, when you first learn to play...ause for emphasis:
DO NOT BURDEN YOURSELF BY BUYING WARDS OR CHICKEN
There. I said it.
You're a new player, you need every advantage you can get in order to develop your skills. Yeah, your team might flame you. But honestly, don't pay attention to that. These people are also low rated for a reason. Remember that just because you're a certain hero doesn't mean you have to do certain things. I have seen plenty of games where "support heroes" carry the games. e.g. Witch Slayer, Pyro, Zeus, Succubus and many more...
Now, let's talk about your hero.
Witch Slayer is a fragile hero that has 2 disables, a mana drain and an ultimate.
Here is my skill build:
Impale (Your first skill, it's an AOE stun. I don't know the name)
Stats
Impale
Stats
Impale
Ultimate
Impale
Why am I recommending stats? Because your current mana pool can NOT support two highly mana intensive skills. (It's like Starcraft. You don't build 6 barracks on one base because you CANNOT support it with your resources.)
A feature about Impale is that it is activated by clicking on the enemy hero. A common mistake I see new players do is "whiffing" the stun by clicking the ground near the enemy hero.
Don't do it. It's better to guarantee that your stun hits.
At lvl 6, you are almost guaranteed to get a kill. (At your current MMR level anyways) Try this: At level 4 or 5, use your stun and auto attack an enemy hero in your lane. Try not to aggro too many creeps and take hits. Once the creep wave is over and you hit level 6, you should have enough mana remaining to combo a stun/ultimate the hurt hero for a kill. Rinse and repeat. Do NOT hesitate to use your ultimate to "kill steal". There's no such thing. (Well... in a higher level game, try and give your kills to Sand Wrath or something. But right now don't worry about it, that low MMR Sand Wrath or Scout probably fails anyways)
Witch Slayer is a great solo mid hero. Although I guarantee your team won't let you because they don't know any better, just know that in the off-chance that you do get a chance to solo... DO IT. You'll dominate the game. Anyways, you'll mostly be forced top or bottom. Just pick any. Would be nice if your partner has a stun/slow.
Strategy in lane: Abuse the range. Abuse the attack animation.
Witch Slayer's attack is surprisingly strong. If you're facing two melee heroes, or one melee hero, you're in a great position. Attack once, run away from creeps. Attack again, run away from creeps.
Tip: To gain the aggressive pressure in the lane, use your stun when he does not have creep support and attack him. Keep him scared that he may die at any moment.
Anyways, add me in game if you want to 1v1 no stats me for practice.
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