General and Attack Modifiers

[Drasha]

Version with links to each item and scroll over information: http://www.hondb.com/?modifiers

There are two types of modifiers in this game: general and attack. General Modifiers are the most common and consist of mana burn, chain lightning, maim, and bash. General Modifiers stack with each other but they do not stack with themselves. For example you could have a Thunderclaw and a Charged Hammer, but their %-chance to proc would not stack together - only 1 will proc at a time onattackimpact. You can however stack a Thunderclaw with a Nullfire Blade and proc lightning & mana combustion at the same time.

Attack Modifiers are less common but there are a few of them in the shop now. These items don't stack with each other but you can choose which one you want as the active modifier if you own both items. You can have both attack modifiers and general modifiers; for example, Chain Lightning and a Frostwolf's Skull would stack together. However, you cannot have Frostwolf's Skull's effect and Lifesteal's effect on the same attack. It is a viable tactic to switch your attack modifier on each attack to get multiple effects on a single target and thus by pass the restriction.

(Note: These are now attack modifiers) There is a 3rd type of modifier that I have called an "orb" effect because they are used to orb walk. These modifiers are hero or item abilities that can be toggled on and cost mana. They will not stack with each other nor any Attack Modifiers, but they will stack with General Modifiers.

Exclusive Modifiers

Mana Burn

• Nullfire Blade
• Mana Combustion (Magebane)

Bash

• Brutalizer
• Gore (Pestilence)
• Horned Strike (Rampage)

Chain Lightning

• Thunder Claw
• Charged Hammer

Searing

• Lightbrand
• Searing Light
• Frozen Light
• Dawnbringer
• Grimoire of Power

Attack Modifiers

• Lifesteal (Hungry Spirit, Whispering Helm, Elder Parasite, Symbol of Rage)
  (Exception to this rule is Abyssal Skull's 15% lifesteal aura that does stack with other lifesteals since it is an aura and not a exclusive modifier)
• Frostwolf's Skull
• Shield Breaker
• Icebrand
• Frostburn
• Tangle Claw (Booboo)
• Masters Incantation (Vindicator)
• Webbed Shot (Arachna)

**For Harkon's Blade behavior, see this thread in the appropriate subsection.

Read This
I made this after reading a post S2Fielding made where he used the terms General and Attack modifiers. In game, the tool tip says Exclusive instead of General, so you should note that if you're reading the tool tips in game.

[Spinewire]

i thought the skull was 15% life steal

[[BETA]Anghkor]

i thought the skull was 15% life steal

It is.

[Drasha]

It is i checked in the game so you guys are right. I used hucklecats lists of items to make this and it seems his list is wrong as well. Its fixed now.

[[BETA]Anghkor]

Is it confirmed that all modifiers can stack, as long as they are different types? So for example you could be Madman with a Whispering Helm (15% leech), Hack and Slash (slow), a Nullfire Blade (Mana Burn), a Brutalizer (Bash), a Charged Hammer (Chain Lightning) and a Shield Breaker (Armor reduction). While it may not be practical, you're saying it's possible to get all of this and it works together?

Also, you should note that since Abysmal Skull is an Aura, the leech stacks with all other modifiers regardless of type.

[Drasha]

yes you can get all of those items to stack. i am not sure on the abysmal skull stacking with other life stealing i will try and test it.

Remember, there's two categories. Attack modifiers, and general modifiers. General modifiers of the same type do not stack, but ones of different types can stack with eachother (life steal and mana combustion, for example). Attack modifiers, since they do something a bit more unique and you may want different ones active for different situations, don't stack, instead you can choose which attack modifier is active.

Generally speaking, chance to proc stuff are general modifiers. So thunderclaw and charged hammer won't stack with eachother (or with themselves) but will stack with brutalizer just fine.

Currently, shieldbreaker and frostwolf's skull are the only items in the "attack modifier" category. That means charged hammer or hack and slash would work with Booboo. For the most part, "chance to proc" items are general modifiers, not attack modifiers. We tried to keep attack modifiers as things that fit these two categories:
1. Modified your attack on a consistent basis (no chance to proc)
2. Did something "special" which could not be prioritized

For example, if you have two life steal items, it's really easy for us to give priority to the higher life steal item and make the lower one inactive. But if you have a shield breaker and a frostwolf skull.. not so much. Sometimes you'd want the armor debuff from shield breaker, sometimes you'd want the movement speed slow from frostwolf's skull. For that reason, these types of things are attack modifiers and you can switch between them. Slither's second ability is also an attack modifier.

[[BETA]Anghkor]

It does, I've already tested it. It's the same as Vlad's from DotA, and it says it stacks in the tooltip.

[Drasha]

ok its changed

[TurpinoS]

So, antimage can now get any lifesteal ? thats schweet !!

[lostgoat]

Another question.

Do crits stack properly on ranged heroes with minibash, etc? I can't test this atm. if no one responds i guess i'll test it tonight.

[xahxah]

This should be removed. Whoever thought this would be a great idea, well... let's just say it is not.



Moon Queen is ABUSRDLY overpowered with this. She has the ability to go both Lifesteal/Mana Burn (Nullfire) early on and completely gank the whole map to death.

[[ABK]_Archangel_]

Arachna's slow stacks fine with Shieldbreaker fine as far as I could tell. Drow with Deso who can slow and reduce your armor at the same time! Imba! Gonna abuse the hell out of this

[SyKot]

Why are Frostwulf and Shieldbreaker unstackable? Any design choice?

[Elmoman]

A better question: How about some better tooltips, so that this is readable in the game?

[Drasha]

Made a new thread about better tooltips since it would be off topic for this thread.
http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/sh...9424#post39424

[[IGs]ToKo]

So i can have life steal, mana burn and chain lighting at the same time and all of then working?

[NooN1]

No, u can only have 1 general and one attack modifier.

[Dergeist]

No, u can only have 1 general and one attack modifier.

This would make much more sense to me. Things would get a little too crazy with that many orb effects.

[dan121]

No, u can only have 1 general and one attack modifier.

I've had two different general and it worked.

[Drasha]

No, u can only have 1 general and one attack modifier.

you are 100% wrong what i posted is 100% correct you can have lifestealing and bash and mana combustion if you want. you can however only have one attack modifier active at one time not that it matter since if you want both and your smart you can switch of between them after each attack and keep both of them up.

if you read all of the posts in this thread i have a quote from a dev saying how it works that supports me.