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Thread: Vindicator Changes

View Poll Results: Should these changes be Implemented? (please read my commentary first)

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  • Yes, (please explain why)

    33 78.57%
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  1. #1

    Vindicator Changes

    was originally Silencer from Dota. In Dota he was a hard carry. In HoN though, Vindicator is a very small niche pick. Although he has his uses, I would like to see more versatility added to him as I rarely see him played.

    Color Codes: nerfed things are indicated in red, buffs/additions are indicated in green


    Sages Lore:

    Type: Magic
    Range: 700
    Radius: 350
    Cast Time: 0.9 Seconds
    Mana Cost: 100 / 115 / 130 / 145
    Cooldown: 15.0 Seconds
    Required Level: 1 / 3 / 5 / 7
    Activation
    Applies Sage's Lore to all enemy heroes in the radius for 7 seconds.
    Sage's Lore Effects
    14 / 26 / 40 / 57 Magic damage per second.
    Drains 7 / 13 / 20 / 28.5 mana per second.
    If the target casts a spell, the mana drain effect is removed and the total damage dealt to the target by Sage's Lore is subtracted by 300% of the spell's manacost.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Although Vindicator has a very strong laning phase presence, the introduction of :chal: has removed most of his laning harassment potential. He needs something to compensate and perhaps help the ability scale better.

    Currently Sage's Lore deals a total of 98/182/280/399 damage with no spellcast. With this change, a spellcast decreases the total damage dealt overtime instead of removing the damage effect (mana loss is still removed). To remove all of the damage of Sage's Lore, 33/61/93/133 mana spent in spells is required.

    Let us examine the implications: Imagine a laning against a . With the current skillset, Vindicator could cast rank 1 Sage's Lore and Moraxus would spend 30 mana to throw a single axe. With the proposed change Moraxus could still do the same with a single axe (and take a negligable 8 damage over 7 seconds); However, under the current skillset, a could cast rank 4 Lore and could still throw a single axe for 30 mana to negate the entire ability.

    With the new change, however, has to make a decision. He can choose to throw a single axe to negate the mana drain but he would still take 309 damage. He could choose to throw 2 axes but take 219 damage, he could throw 3 axes but take 129 damage, OR he could choose to use Quake and Negate ALL of the damage. The point of this change is to make the opponent THINK about what he wants to cast. No longer is Sage's Lore just a HURR DURR click that 30 mana cost ability when you see a blue light. It is now risk (how much mana to spend and what ability to waste) vs reward (how much damage is negated). Noobs will often make the wrong decisions whereas Pros will intuitively know how much damage they can shrug off.

    You could say that this change makes him too powerful against the heroes he already counters during the laning phase; however, I contest that. Let us examine a 2nd scenario of a vs :chro:. Currently is strong against :chro: because he lacks a low cost, spammable active ability. Chronos only has time leap which costs 135 mana. With the change, Time Leap still cancels out a rank 4 Sages Lore completely as 135 *3 = 405 which is greater than the 399 damage dealt by Sage's Lore. This change does not make more powerful against the heroes he already counters but rather lets him, with higher ranks of Lore, to do something against those heroes who have spammable abilities (albeit lore against them is still much less effective).

    Also note that the manacost on Sage's Lore has been increased to compensate for the increased functionality. (also primarily to offset some mana regeneration from the 3rd ability change).


    Master's Incantation:

    Type: Attack
    Range: 600
    Cast Time: 0.9 Seconds
    Mana Cost: 30
    Cooldown: 2.0 / 1.0 / 0.0 / 0.0 Seconds
    Required Level: 1 / 3 / 5 / 7
    Activation
    Deals 30%/40%/50%/60% of the Vindicator's Intelligence in bonus True damage when attacking
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Currently, lower ranks of Master's Incantaiton do almost laughable damage. The damage from early ranks has been increased by a factor of 100%/33%/11%/0%; however, note that the manacost has been increased by a constant factor of 100% to compensate (which makes this ability synergize with the 3rd ability change; see below). The point of this change is make leveling master's incantation more viable during the early game phase. It helps differentiate the choice to play a carry Vindicator and a support Vindicator. While the increased damage bonus on rank 1 may seem like a lot, remember that every poke with Master's Incantation means 30 less mana (which adds up fast) for Sage's Lore.


    Inscribed Glyphs:

    Required Level: 1 / 3 / 5 / 7
    Gives the Vindicator 2 Auras that he can toggle between. Only 1 aura can be active at once.

    Glyph of Silence:

    Aura Activation
    Any enemy hero the Vindicator can see and who casts a spell while in range of the Aura is Silenced for 1.00/1.75/2.50/3.25 seconds. Only applies to visible enemy heroes. Enemy heroes dies within a 800 radius will permanently lose 1 Intelligence while Vindicator permanently gains 1.5 Intelligence.
    Aura Effects
    Radius: 800
    Target: Enemy Heroes

    Glyph of Power:

    Aura Activation
    Any allied hero the Vindicator can see and who casts a spell while in range of the Aura has a 15%/25%/35%/45% chance to have half of the spell's manacost refunded. Restores full mana for attack modifier abilities. Only applies to visible allied heroes. Enemy heroes dies within a 800 radius permanently will lose 1 Intelligence while Vindicator permanently gains 1.5 Intelligence
    Aura Effects
    Radius: 800
    Target: Allied Heroes
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Like the 2nd ability change, this change helps to further differentiate the playstyles of support and carry. As I mentioned earlier, the manacost of Master's Incantation was increased to 30 to offset the increased damage output from earlier levels. This makes sustained rate of fire with Incantation unfeasible until the very end of a game, that is of course unless you choose to activate the mana regeneration aura instead.

    This is all about options. You can choose between defense and offense. If you choose to activate glyph of power instead of glyph of silence, you give yourself and your lane partner increased harassing potential; however, you make yourself vulnerable to heroes with combos such as ,,. It would add a lot of depth and synergy to Vindicator IMO without making him more powerful.

    Note that the intelligence gain has been reduced to compensate for the increased versatility of choosing between 2 auras and the additional strength of early levels of Master's Incantation (i.e. he needs less int growth to offset the increased viability of carrying).

    Final Chapter:

    Type: SuperiorMagic
    Cast Time: 0.9 Seconds
    Mana Cost: 250 / 350 / 450
    Cooldown: 160.0 Seconds
    Required Level: 6 / 11 / 16
    Activation
    Applies Final Chapter to all enemy heroes for 3 / 4 / 5 seconds.
    Final Chapter Effects:
    Silence

    This ability can be boosted by Staff of the Master.
    Staff Effect: Increases the duration of silence to 4 / 5 / 6 seconds.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Not much reasoning to the addition of the staff effect except that I feel that SOTM should boost 's ult. Most s will not bother with SOTM after this change but instead go for other support items like sheepstick or Kuldra's; however, having the option does not hurt. This last change really is not necessary but if you have a terrible early game and become an ult stick, might as well grab a SOTM.




    Conclusion:

    With these changes I predict 3 common playstyles:
    Lane Dominance Build:
    - Vindicator initially skills Sages Lore followed by his Aura. He uses Glyph of Power to help his mana efficiency so he can spam an extra two or three Sage's Lore during the Laning phase and increase the harassing potential of his lane partner. Buys mana regeneration items to further assist.
    Support Build:
    - Vindicator skills Sages Lore but takes care to get the highest rank aura possible. Uses both Power and Silence. Buys support items and if needed, SOTM for the extra silencing power. Puts a few points in attribute bonus for the middle game phase.
    The Carry Vindicator:
    - Vindicator rushes skilling Master's Incantation. He puts 1 or 2 points in his aura for Glyph of Power to help with mana efficiency. Also gets attribute bonus early on.

    When I talk with other people about Vindicator and what needs to be changed, many suggest adding an escape ability, increasing his MS, hp growth, etc; however, these remove his weaknesses. To remove them would be to detract from his specialized focus -- something I find lacking in many HoN heroes. I think these changes add reasonable versatility and better differentiate the playstyles of his two roles -- carry and support without removing his main weaknesses.


    Your thoughts/comments/criticism are very much appreciated.
    Last edited by Banefull; 12-16-2010 at 02:35 AM.

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