Thread: ThunderBrand (Mindbrand reworked)

View Poll Results: Do you want this item in Heroes of Newerth?

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  • Yes

    247 88.85%
  • No

    31 11.15%
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  1. #1

    ThunderBrand (Mindbrand reworked)

    Quote Originally Posted by FiddleStiX View Post



    Original pic - Linky


    We have Icebrand for STR heroes.
    We have Firebrand for AGI heroes.
    I want Thunderbrand for INT heroes.


    Thunderbrand is a simple item, along the lines of the previous brands:
    +16 INT
    +20 Cast speed
    -7% Cooldown

    It requires (obviously) Apprentices Robe and Neophytes Book in addition to a recipe for 750g

    Now the interesting things start:
    Icebrand and Firebrand gives Frostburn.
    Icebrand and Thunderbrand gives Ligthningfreeze.
    Firebrand and Thunderbrand gives Firezapp.
    Icebrand, Firebrand, Thunderbrand and Recipe(400g?) gives Triforce (by your powers combined, I am...)
    (If you have all three brands in some combination then buy the recipe, they fuse into Triforce, This happens no matter what combination you buy the "Brands" in)

    Now for the stats of these combining weapons:
    Frostburn
    16 Agility
    16 Strength
    20 Attack Speed
    15 Damage
    14% Move Speed
    Chilled

    Ligthningfreeze
    16 Intelegence
    16 Strength
    15 Damage
    30 Cast Speed
    -10% Cooldown
    Chilled

    Firezapp
    16 Agility
    16 Intelegence
    30 Cast Speed
    -10% Cooldown
    14% Move Speed
    20 Attack Speed

    Triforce (OPTIONAL)
    16 Agility
    16 Strength
    16 Intelligence
    20 Damage
    25 Attack Speed
    17% Move Speed
    40 Cast Speed
    -15% Cooldown
    Chilled(Stronger)

    As you can see the new Thunderbrand follows the same pattern from the previous brands and mix perfectly with the new brands.
    This also gives INT heroes a reason to think about these items.
    Frostburn is also slightly boosted with 5 more damage.

    As you know:
    Icebrand goes together with Blessed Orb and Glowstone to make Frostwolf Skull.
    Firebrand goes together with Blessed Orb to make Geometres Bane.
    Therefore Thunderbrand should also make another item, Sands of Time was created with that purpose.

    Sands of Time:(generic name)
    +16 INT
    +200 HP
    +300 MP
    +20 Cast speed
    -10% Cool Down
    Slows down EVERYTHING within y range of the hero by x% for >n seconds. May be upgradable z times for better slow, longer duration or longer range. Area moves with the hero.
    This item would be made of Thunderbrand and Glowstone with a recipe costing some 500-1000 gold

    Notes:
    - Not to implement Triforce so people have to specialize, and not get everything in a single item.
    - Stopwatch slows heroes/creeps/towers, it effects MS/AS/CS/regen... Everything

    Either you like it or you don't, tell me why.
    Numbers are not set in stone yet so balancing is still an issue.

    [@] Change log [@]
    Added notes about Geometers Bane, Frostwolf Skull and Harkons Blade (08.47 - 27.08.10)
    Added "OR -X Magic Armor" on all items including Mindbrand (09.03 - 27.08.10)
    Removed "OR -X mana cost to spells" on all items including Mindbrand (13.22 - 31.08.10)
    Triforce changed name to Burning Ming of Ice (13.41 - 31.08.10)
    Fixed some type errors (15.01 - 07.09.10)
    Added Stopwatch (15.08 - 07.09.10)
    Balanced Magic Armour reduction on all items including Mindbrand (15.18 - 07.09.10)
    Added Notes section (15.25 - 07.09.10)
    Removed everything concerning Magic Attacks from all items containing Mindbrand (11.57 - 14.09.10)
    Removed Harkons blade from the concept (13.36 - 19.09.10)
    Fixed some typos (12.59 - 09.10.10)
    Made "Burning Mind of Ice" optional (17.34 - 17.10.10)
    Made new thread named Arcanebrand (18.24 - 02.11.10)
    Changed name of Burning Mind of Ice to Combined Brand (18.25 - 02.11.10)
    Added recipe for Combined Brand (18.26 - 02.11.10)
    Reduced Cooldown for all items and fixed some typos (12.56 - 03.11.10)
    Changed name from Combined Brand to Triforce (10.46 - 08.11.10)
    Reduced recipe cost for Triforce (10.47 - 08.11.10)
    Boosted Stopwatch from 20 INT to 26 INT (10.47 - 08.11.10)
    Changed Stopwatch (09.58 - 17.11.10)
    Renamed Stopwatch to Sands of Time (08.38 - 25.11.10)
    Fixed typo (21.03 - 14.02.11)
    Added optional effect for Sands of Time (21.07 - 14.02.11)
    Changed name from Archanebrand to Thunderbrand (18.56 - 06.04.11)
    Removed an incarnation of the effects on Sands of Time (18.57 - 06.04.11)

    Original Sands of Time:

    Sands of Time:(generic name)
    +26 INT
    +200 HP
    +300 MP
    +40 Cast speed
    -20% Cool Down
    This item would be made of Mindbrand and Glowstone with a recipe costing some 500-1000 gold

    Removed effect
    (1) Slows down EVERYTHING on the map except your hero by x% for n seconds. May be upgradable z times for better slow or longer duration.

    Original Thread:
    Mindbrand
    Last edited by GauntElakor; 04-06-2011 at 12:57 PM.

  2. #2
    Good idea but...

    I hope you realize how incredibly overtuned the stats are. 20% cooldown reduction is quite noticable. Behemoths heart, a 5500g item only gives 10% reduction and some more health than what you're proposing.

    You're giving stats comparable to a Sac Stone with the core benefit Int heroes get from a Behe's heart. It would allow some heroes to practically become carries due to insanely fast cooldown on spells. i.e. and let's not forget everybodies favorite spammer, . Healing supports become semi-tanky while getting even faster healing power, see .

    Tone down the cooldown reduction and perhaps a little on the stats, the cast speed can stay.

  3. #3
    I have tough about that, but this is just an idea, balancing will come with time (and specially from S2)
    But Il tone it down a bit.

  4. #4
    Yes, more INT orientated + lowering cooldown items seem like a cool idea.

  5. #5
    I T'd up since I loved mindbrand, but I got to ask, why are you remaking it?

    Seriously community?
    Quote Originally Posted by Reldnahc View Post
    S2 releases a complex hero and the community whines. S2 releases a simple hero and the community whines.
    S2 releases a hero once a month and the community complains that they want more. S2 releases a hero every fortnightly and the community whines it is too much.
    S2 pulls knee jerk balance patches and the community whines. S2 tries to let the dust settle before making balance changes and the community whines.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Brazier View Post
    Good idea but...

    I hope you realize how incredibly overtuned the stats are. 20% cooldown reduction is quite noticable. Behemoths heart, a 5500g item only gives 10% reduction and some more health than what you're proposing.

    You're giving stats comparable to a Sac Stone with the core benefit Int heroes get from a Behe's heart. It would allow some heroes to practically become carries due to insanely fast cooldown on spells. i.e. and let's not forget everybodies favorite spammer, . Healing supports become semi-tanky while getting even faster healing power, see .

    Tone down the cooldown reduction and perhaps a little on the stats, the cast speed can stay.

    You forget that this is a 6600g (8100g if he keeps the 1500g recipe charge) item. it can be more powerful then sacstone or behemoth's heart at that price.

    Edit: Also: OP, the 1500 recipe on Burning Mind of Ice is outrageous. For 6600g, I think it's fine as is. 8100g is just outlandish.


    Double Edit: Stopwatch is very weak right now. Among other things, it should be minimum +26 int, +10 str +10 agi, since that's the sum of its parts. In addition, its very expensive, almost as expensive as BMoI without the recipe, and is much weaker, only giving an extra 5% as compensation.

    My suggestion: Either take glowstone out and make it +26 int, +10 str +10 agi +40 cast speed -20% cooldowns, or leave it as it is, but make it +26 int, +10 str +10 agi +200 HP +200 MP +40 cast speed -25%
    Last edited by CSDragon; 11-04-2010 at 09:52 AM.

    Seriously community?
    Quote Originally Posted by Reldnahc View Post
    S2 releases a complex hero and the community whines. S2 releases a simple hero and the community whines.
    S2 releases a hero once a month and the community complains that they want more. S2 releases a hero every fortnightly and the community whines it is too much.
    S2 pulls knee jerk balance patches and the community whines. S2 tries to let the dust settle before making balance changes and the community whines.

  7. #7
    @CSDragon: The poll was not appropriate for the popular section.
    Well, a 1.5k recipe was maybe ridiculous, 400 maybe to put it at a total of 7k, just to make it a bit more "rare"
    Stopwatch does not contain Blessed Orb, so I dont know where the STR and AGI would come from, but 26 INT was not unreasonable.

  8. #8
    Im the only one here listening to the bumping noise?

  9. #9
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    I love it just like I did before. However, I still have some issues with the Stopwatch one. It feels like the effect should be more interesting. Also, I'm not sure Arcanebrand is a better name. It's closer to the elemental nature of fire and ice, but is a bit wordy and doesn't fit in the theme as well. I think I would change it to something else. I'll post when I have an idea.

    It's sort of a hard thing to place exactly; fire and ice are already such polar opposites, I don't know what would fit for intelligence that wouldnt feel unnatural.

    I'd really like to hear what you think of my hero Arika, I've changed her a lot recently.

    :fors:
    Check out my heroes!
    Prime
    http://dream.heroesofnewerth.com/hero/Disco_Bison/Prime
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    http://dream.heroesofnewerth.com/hero/Disco_Bison/Felsprite

  10. #10
    Well, yes. The stopwatch is now a bit more epic (a lot actually).

    On the name part, I have no idea what to really call it, naming never were my strong side.

    Arika was pretty good btw

  11. #11
    good idea, would need balancing but nice
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  12. #12
    well i didnt vote yet because im not sure if hon needs this item right now.
    the idea of lowering cooldown is nice, but i seriously cant imagine any hero that would build a "triforce". because nukers like thunderbringer dont need the chill effekt from icebrand or the movement speed from firebrand.. they would prefer something like bloodstone..
    also int carries would not buy this because i mean cmon, does puppet master really need lower cooldowns? and would this be more effective then something like whispering helm/geos or charged hammer or whatever...
    but i still love stopwatch, this could be very interesting on its own but firemagic, arcanebrand and triforce arent very useful imo

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by CesoMark View Post
    well i didnt vote yet because im not sure if hon needs this item right now.
    the idea of lowering cooldown is nice, but i seriously cant imagine any hero that would build a "triforce". because nukers like thunderbringer dont need the chill effekt from icebrand or the movement speed from firebrand.. they would prefer something like bloodstone..
    also int carries would not buy this because i mean cmon, does puppet master really need lower cooldowns? and would this be more effective then something like whispering helm/geos or charged hammer or whatever...
    but i still love stopwatch, this could be very interesting on its own but firemagic, arcanebrand and triforce arent very useful imo
    There would be situations where Triforce would be a good item... Just like there are situations for Mock, Symbol of Rage, Codex etc.

    [Voted Yes]

  14. #14
    why add this? To eliminate support? Any int hero who would normally have been support would become a carry, and that is so bad for the metagame I don't even want to think about it. We have enough carries; if you want items for int heroes/casters, think of support items.
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  15. #15
    Well, support heroes would still be support heroes, if an INT would get this it would be late game where their supporting most likely would be unnoticeable and carries take over the game, it just gives INTs a longer effect time. Also, this strengthens INTs earlier in the game therefore slightly reducing the effect of carries.

    I also dont see where this makes INTs carries on par with AGI carries or even STR carries, it reduces cool down and boosts cast speed, there is no carrying in that.

  16. #16
    I like the idea, but stopwatch is a shitty name. Better take "sands of time" if you wanna steal or "timeshard" or something.

    why add this? To eliminate support? Any int hero who would normally have been support would become a carry, and that is so bad for the metagame I don't even want to think about it. We have enough carries; if you want items for int heroes/casters, think of support items.
    Support can't be eliminated. You only have a fixed amount of exp and money to give. If you concentrate a good amount of it in one to two persons they become carries having a huge impact on the game. I support the idea to have nearly every hero beeing able to fill the carry role because that adds more divesity. You still can only have 1-2 people playing carry.
    I stopped playing. First I did this, then I got the idea to let everyone who wants to boycot EA just not play every even calendar day, so S2 can see in their player numbers how many boycot EA. S2 deleted the thread, deleted my sig and now, I just don't play anymore.

  17. #17
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    i really like the idea of a int focussed item like this but i agree the name must change like something elemental, like earth or wind.

    this must come into HoN
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  18. #18
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    Suggestion: When combined with at least icebrand + arcanebrand (+ firebrand), should apply the slow on single target spells. Just a suggestion,

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  19. #19
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    This would make Frostbrand more appealing to Demented early game, and also give him more of a presence than just stormcloud and hide. T-up.

  20. #20
    15% reduction in CD's is pretty high. Besides that everything looks pretty solid. Maybe you should change Stopwatch's ability to an AoE stun? Maybe even something like Succubus' Mesmerize would be great, considering there aren't that many disable items in HoN.

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