What they are saying in terms of casters scaling is - as you seen in competitive games, they can be left with only a strider and chalice after 30 minutes, because there is just no gold for them, they die first in team battles - and all the assisting doesn't help them.
Now, we don't want them to suddenly get a sheepstick - but surely, a tablet at least, some bracers etc - which I think is good.
Sounds like a few of the bad ideas from LOL are being added, yay?!
Also wasnt casters being good the whole game a prob during beta. Seems alot of casters have been nerfed to the ground cause they are too good for too long. (ds hb big stand outs). Seems after the nerfs to carrys that were too good early (aka the one with stuns) and the support that was good late (see above) s2 is going to undo it.
And on messing around with given exp, has the new dota one worked at all? Seems trying to stop tri lanes and making team fights better doesnt work.
I try to explain why giving supports items late is not a good idea. Lets imagine you play a meelee hard carry. you lane against a witchslayer support, he harresses the **** out of you, sets up kills on you, whatever. you keep calm because you know: in 30 minutes ill rape your ass and there is nothing you can do about it. but now support witchslayer does not only have boots and a bracer, he has a sheepstick, and his other supporterfriend has a frostfieldplate. you pop your shrunken and start attacking and Bam you get a frostfield in the face. as soon as shrunken wears of you are hexed. not only once but twice. you are now permadisabled because everybody has items. gratz you are useless, not only early but also late. Insert trollface.jpg on witchslayer.
Supports should not be able to buy items other then wards and the occasional lowprice support item (like tablet). otherwise they are TOO useful, and they carry over their early dominace to the lategame.
The possibility of getting balanced heroes at a faster pace has also piqued my interest.
HoN forced to take a leaf out of LoL's book in order to stay competitive in the DotA-genre market!
I really don't understand what s2 is thinking wanting to make games faster.
Using the chalice as an example for "faster game pace" we see that it has caused several very popular heroes to be imbalanced. Chalice has made heroes like zues/behe/voodoo/hammer/20 other heroes completely rigged, and other heroes who don't benefit from this item completely underpowered(tree/magebane/plague/etc). And dont forget that chalice has completely destroyed silencer(AND HE IS STILL BEING NERFED). The item has completely destroyed the metagame and I DON'T want to see hereoes being balanced off it.
I think striders are fine they need to be just a little bit more expensive(500 recipe).
Another issue that bob saggot has mentioned is that because you've introduced so many gankers into the game to shorten game lengths, half of my games I HAVE to run around with a gank squad/counter gank squad, PROLONGING THE GAME.
"We also find that the tower AI is somewhat punishing to push attempts and could behave a little more consistently." I'm very happy that you guys will admit that the tower mechanics are not consistent.
As for the map section, I find this kind of unsettling.
The biggest issue I think that s2 has when balancing ANYTHING is that instead of changing 1 thing(thus having a control) they change MULTIPLE things and then gauge the "balance", try having a control it helps.
Just listen to me s2, I play with the guy that had the banana idea.
Last edited by Ch1cken; 10-27-2010 at 09:02 AM.
My post has been removed, I think they don't want to admit that HoN is becoming League of Legends 2
You have yet some summoner spell:
Ghost = Strider
Clarity = Chalice
Go implement AOE circle mod, remove deny, add AP and make EM normal game.
Welcome to LoL 2.
I tryed to do some suggestion even on upcoming content, but now I lost hope.. fortunatly DOTA 2 next year
Very nice post Fielding, I like the fact you took some time to update us on your long term vision/plans now that we are bit falling behind on the new features until TMM and the Editor are ready (and ofcourse it's totally logical these things take a long time).
I like the fact that support is being looked at. Maybe there could be a system that gives discount on some items depending on your farm? For example looking at creep kills, gold earned and gold spent on support items (wards, potions, things like that) while factoring in the current game time, and then determining the amount of discount that will be given on items like boots, bracers, tablet, maybe even astrolabe and such.
Items like Sheepstick, Frostfield etc I'd consider too powerful to get a discount, but some items could be given a discount without giving the support too much of a boost.
Ofcourse those discounts should only be handed out to people struggling in the game, not a (Semi)support which has good farm.
High five S2, fresh ideas is what will make this game live for a long time.
People, especially gamers are afraid of change since it forces them to rethink their strategies, the way they play. The few unhappy with game pace changes will probably leave, whine HoN becomes LoL etc.
Don't bother though, the majority will love the changes after a while. Action paced games are the ones best remembered, not farmfests and turtle-strats.
There simply should be an equal reason-ability in different strategies.
Good luck with these plans, looking forward to what you come up with to change game pace especially.
Such a huge change will require not only unbelievable skilled guys in the balance section, but also a huge amount of luck and timing.
I do find it weird that it took you about 8 years of DotA and 3 years of developing HoN, before you realized that you needed to make such huge changes to the recipe in order to make it successful. You must have been in love with DotA in the first place (which "suffers" from the same issues as pointed out in the OP), and yet you suddenly want to change a lot of the basics drastically? At least it didn't take Demigod and LoL 3 years of development, before they realized that changes needed to be made.
Another note is that when I think of S2, "balancing gosus" isn't really the first thing that comes to mind. In the OP both Blood Chalice and Striders are given as examples, and they are IMO some of the most flawed items in the game. I also remember the "XP change" on the beta-beta, and I can't believe such a brainfart even made it into the beta-beta!?!
Guess its do-or-die time now for HoN/S2, and tbh it isn't looking too good. This is - sadly - the first time I've been happy that DotA2 is announced, as us freaks will be able to play the game/genre that we have grown to love.
I like to rice farm .. gank oriented ruins everything every two seconds a gank cba -.-
ghost = :EnhancedMarchers:
Clarity = :RingOfSorcery:
both were dota ports. not to mention the ridiculously long cd time for those spells.
At the moment I would love to see a push strat that's less affected by the usual gank squad. Gank has become too much of a trend now that you see less of other strategies going around
Last edited by Jeroz; 10-27-2010 at 09:18 AM.
The Game is fast pace action orientated already
Loosing gold in team fights benefits the casters
If the carry don`t lose gold it will dis-balance the game
and games last 40 min average witch is fine
new items new heroes is great....
You know whats really funny...
s2 made all these new ganker heroes and all we see in competitive play are . I find that funny.
Maybe that's just me, I don't know. But this thread makes me worry that S2 games will try and make HoN cater to the masses of casual players. As a short term financial decision, this is great, but it might cost you the loyalty of a lot of players.