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After some conflicting arguments with other pubs about grabbing ultimates too early/late, what's the definitive list of when you should skip the lv6/11 or even 16 ultimate? Some of the ones I thought of:
Pebs - Another point in sta/chuck is far more useful.
Wildsoul - Should still be farming jungle.
Scout (?)
Valk (?)
Torturer - Way too much manacost till late game.
Hammerstorm (?) - Don't get why this is avoided till mid game.. 100% based damage will surely be useful in early teamfights or ganks.
Glacius - Which is better, more slow/stun/regen or a luck based ulti?
Soulstealer
Madman (?) - Really dont understand this. Atleast get it for added movespeed to chase..
Any others?
I think that Scout's ulti should be taken at 6, it does a decent amount of dmg.
Valk can get her ult whenever she wants. Some people get at 6, most people get later.
Hammerstorm should get his ult at 6.
Madman's ult at lvl 1 isn't very good. His other two spells are better.
Also electrician can situationally skip his ult at 6 if he has a point in grip.
Valk and Slither have prohibitively expensive mana costs on their ults, and Valk's vanilla skills are all quite powerful the earlier you get them.
Skipping Madman's ult stems from the olden days when his ult was incredibly expensive. However, at level 6, you're still fragile and unlikely to be doing very much autoattack damage. In addition, Stalk and Barrel Roll are too good early on to not max. And it doesn't add to movespeed, you might be mistaking it with another ability.
first two skills are better
if your safe nueting you dont need it
it isnt a /must/ grab but recommended. If the lane is going terrible you can skip to focus on heal/slow till about 8.
same deal as wildsoul.
better damage from skipping it at 6
if your laning with a heavy nuker its more mana efficient to skip it if you can kill them without it.
if your lanes wont need a silence early and your against someone that your mana drain actually effects.
:jera: dont always need it in lane
her burst is epic
too expensive
increases mana costs if memory serves.
skip if your finding you dont have much mana to waste
always skip it
Ones that come to mind, may have missed some.
Last edited by yyr_; 10-25-2010 at 06:00 PM.
unless they changed it last patch, his ulti adds ms (movespeed)Originally Posted by busterswd
tongue punch my turd cutter.
terrible advice imo, blacksmith with no multicast is pretty meh - though I never realized it increased his mana costs (not even sure if that is actually true)
Ah, damn, you're right.
Still, stalk and barrel roll are pretty sexy.
It increases the manacost by 30 and instead you could get a higher rank of fireball. Less expensive more reliable damage. It is viable just depends on how mana dependant you are at the time and how difficult your lane is.
with chalice the mana isn't really a problem and suddenly getting a multicast while harassing with stun is pretty much a kill
Are the ones I can think of.
Armas ult is awesome, gives you speed to chase and retarded damage when pumped up. Dsham's ult is great as well, the armor really makes a difference when cast before a fight. That **** can double your teams damage. Preds ult is a must as well, easy -2 armor, movement speed to keep up with rangeds and attack speed
Are the ones I can think of.
I agreed with ur whole post, except these two. A warbeast in a lane can get his ult at level 6, and start getting some kills in the side lane next to the jungle. And if they ever come into the jungle, it's nice to have an escape mechanism.
Blacksmith without multicast is sadface. 30 more mana, that's fine. Assumming your leveling ur fireball over flaming hammer or frenzy the point spent will either be in one of the lesser 2 of his abilites. The chance to multi cast is much more valuable.
Last edited by Kraphty; 10-25-2010 at 06:20 PM.
Never, under any circumstances, take a sleeping pill and a laxative on the same night
Team Supporter/Pusher
A warbeast can skip it without it being bad. It comes down to how strong the side lane next to him is. And this is also in pub games and some times your teammate is too retarded to make it worth while or your team is bad and the double lane is next to your forest. Circumstantial skippable as warbeast is a pub hero after all.
Blacksmiths skill build should be maxxing slow over stun in pretty much every game. A level 2 multicast fireball 25% of the time for an extra 30 mana isnt a must grab over level 3 fireball, which decreases fire balls cooldown by 3 seconds meaning you can stun ---> slow ---> stun so they stunned/slowed the entire time.
:fors:
But Madman has a skill called stalk which gives him near max MS with just orange boots.
No, as Lucksmith you WANT to have Fireball maxed asap, especially because its dmg doesn't scale linear from Slvl3-Slvl4. Just do some math and compare a lvl 7
a) 3-3-0-1 skillbuild (175 dmg, 25% chance to cast twice, 12 sec CD, 125 manacost)
b) 4-3-0-0 skillbuild (275 dmg, 15 sec CD, 105 manacost)
Really want to gamble that early on? I agree, since LOLchalice was introduced, he could actually use his combo to harrass. But however, at that stage he doesn't have shitloads of mana. And he should nevertheless rely on a possible 2x multicast to take a kill from his laning partner...
/edit - To the poster below me: 4-2-0-1 skillbuild (275 dmg, 25% chance to cast twice, 12 sec CD, 135 manacost). As you can see it's optional, but only a 1/4 chance to multicast for 30 more mana. Still I would prefer raising Flaming Hammer next to Fireball for more constant dmg, thanks to the better slow+DoT+MA debuff (since your combo is always slow>stun).
Last edited by Bremm; 10-25-2010 at 08:35 PM.
What about 4-2-0-1, how much damage does this do?
I actually like 4 hammer, 2 fireball, 1 ult at 7. Why? Cause an aoe (small) 40% slow, -4 magic armor, for 7 seconds is fantastic for making anyone squishy enough for my team mate. If you were solo ganking however, i can understand maxing fireball.
Just a personal opinion.
your point? i was merely correcting bad information. not stating that his ulti should not be skipped. thanks tho bro.
tongue punch my turd cutter.
*this post was originally a math post that is quoted later if you want to see it. Whilst it proved my point (skipping ultimate is viable) i changed my mind on skill progression. Removed it to stop anyone reading it and doing the wrong thing
Last edited by yyr_; 10-31-2010 at 01:08 AM. Reason: forgot a build.
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