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ALL THE REPLAYS HAVE JUST DISAPPEARED FROM THE SITE. I NEED NEW ONES.
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Guide to Scout
by ObeseSheep
Image by Nigma
Copyright 2011 Dusan Dragojevic
Created September 29, 2010
First Released October 5, 2010
Last Modified March 11, 2011If you are going to use any part of this guide, be a friend, let me know, and give credit.Contents:
This guide is written for Heroes Of Newerth patch 2.0.16, standard games, non-CM, 5v5, and etc. It can be applied to other options of play, however.
- Introduction
- Hero Overview
- Building Scout
- Skill Building
- Items and Item Builds
- Starters
- Some Smart Early Game Pick Ups
- Core Items
- Luxury Item Choices
- Situational Item Choices
- Items to Avoid
- Building your Core
- Building After Core and Choosing an Attack Modifier
- Game Play
- Replays
- To Do List
- Conclusion
IntroductionHello and welcome to my Scout guide.Hero Overview
I write guides differently. I will not give you one core item or skill build for you to religiously follow through out every game. My method is to show you all viable and non-viable options that you have, and how to use them, the viable ones of course. Hopefully this guide is straightforward and plain. Yes, plain. Super fantastically colourful guides disorient and annoy the crap out of me. If you have criticism, do not be afraid to say I'm an idiot. Just explain why IN GREAT DETAIL.
I will not go over basic aspects of the game like terms (e.g. what is ganking), items, farming techniques (e.g. neutral pulling or stacking), HELPING YOUR TEAM COUGH TP COUGH WARDS COUGH, and etc. Basically, you need to know at least the basics to understand this guide. I want teach you about Scout and only Scout, not how to last hit. Is that fair to ask?
Lets start.
----
StatsMelee (Attack Range 128)Skills
Attack Damage: 45 - 58
Attack Speed: 121 (1.45 second cool down, 0.69 attacks per second)
Armour: 4.94 (22.9% damage reduction)
Movement Speed: 315
Primary Attribute: Agility
Starting Stats
-STR: 20
-AGI: 21
-INT: 16
Stat Gain
-1.7 STR per level
-3.0 AGI per level
-1.4 INT per level
----
VanishElectric Eye
Activation
Toggle
Mana cost: 30 mana
Cool down: 24/18/12/6 seconds
Mana upkeep: 2/3/4/5 mana per second
Applies Vanish to Scout.
Attacking a unit with Vanish active will toggle Vanish off and apply Flurry to Scout for 4 seconds.
Vanish Effects:
+25% Movement Speed
Stealth with a 0.5 second fade time
Flurry Effects:
+300 Attack Speed
Expires after 1/2/3/4 attacks
----Disarm
Activation
Target Position
Range: 100 units
Radius: 450 units
Mana cost: 50 mana
Cool down: 30 seconds
Scout places an Electric Eye are target location. Scout can place and Detonate it with out breaking his Vanish.
The Electric Eye has true sight. If enemy units get with in a range of 150 units of an Electric Eye, it will be revealed. You can have 2/3/4/5 up at one time.
Each Electric gives Scout the ability to Detonate it, silencing near by enemies. You can also select the Electric Eye and destroy it.
Each Electric Eye has a vision radius of 700 units.
Detonate
Activation
Self
Radius: 450 units
Cool down: 10 seconds
Destroys the closest Electric Eye to Scout and silences enemies in a 450 radius for 3/4/5/6 seconds. It has a shared cool down with all Electric Eyes.
Scout can use this when he is disabled.
Placement Range and Silence Radius:Vision Radius:
----Marksman Shot
Passive
On Attack
Scout has a 10/15/20/25% chance to disarm the enemy for 1 second and deal a 1.25/1.5 /1.75/2.0x critical strike.
Once disarmed, Scout cannot disarm enemies again for 2 seconds.
----Analysis and Role
Activation
Target Unit
Type: Superior Magic
Range: 1500/2000/2500 units
Channelling Time: 2.25/1.75/1.25 seconds
Mana cost: 125/175/250 mana
Cool down: 50/40/30 seconds
After channel time, Scout fires a projectile at the target that deals 250 plus 10/20/30% of target's maximum health in magic damage. Wounded is applied to the target for 4 seconds.
Wounded Effects:
20/30/40% Movement Slow
Range:
Level 1:Level 2:Level 3:
----So many things point to Scout being a hard carry (poor early game power, decent mid game power, strong late game power):Building Scout
-Scout has the third highest AGI gain in the game, 0.1 less than The Dark Lady, and 0.2 less than Arachna.
-Three of his skills scale.
-Not only does he have a crit, it is the best crit in the game, disarm and crit packed tight like a vagina! c wut i did thar Petter Chao? <3 =D
-And high movement speed.
Some people think Scout is a hard-core ganker. I assure you, that is dead false and you are going to fail your team if you play him that way. A hero with a 20% slow that takes 2.25 seconds to cast and a three to five second silence at level 6 is not worthy of being a committed ganker. On the other hand, when it comes to carrying long games, Scout is one of the best. He has an advantage over other carries with disarm and most importanly, gank protection though wards. This is the reason Scout should be picked. This is his biggest advantage over other carry as there are better in terms of DPS and initiation. I cannot stress this enough. If you do not have 4 wards out then you should have picked another carry. No questions asked. Please do not be the Scout that thinks that 1 ward is enough ESPECIALLY early game.
Like other carries, Scout is very fragile through out the game. What he lacks that other hard carries in general have is a good escape skill. Don't get me wrong. Vanish is one of the best steroid skills in the game but it has huge flaws. Firstly, it is very mana dependent early. Secondly, it is easily countered later. And lastly, it is not instant. In fights or ganks, blinking at the correct time can save your ass. But because Scout cannot blink, he is left in the dust and often joins it as well.=( Not only is this a down fall when it comes to being defensive, it also hinders Scouts ability to initiate with his sexy 6 second silence.
Oh yes, I would procreate with that six-second silence indeed.... LOLWUT COUGH ANYWAY...
Let us continue. >.>
----ALWAYS REMEMBER THAT BUILDS ARE NOT THE BEST WAY TO THINK OF BUILDING ITEMS OR SKILLS.Skill Building
WHEN I POST AN ITEM OR SKILL BUILD I TRY AND MAKE IT AS GENERAL AS POSSIBLE.
BUILD AROUND THE SITUATION AND NOT THE BUILD.
/caps
----Yeah yeah, I said do not want to give you one build but I blame S2 for making this hero crap. =D I will no longer accept any other skill build. If you do not level Electric Eye, you should have picked another carry. End of story.Items and Item Builds
1 - Electric Eye
2 - Vanish
3 - Electric Eye
4 - Vanish
5 - Electric Eye
6 - Marksman Shot
7 - Electric Eye
8-9 - Vanish
10 - Disarm
11 - Marksman Shot
12-14 - Disarm
15 - Attribute Boost
16 - Marksman Shot
17-25 - Attribute Boost
Electric Eye is taken to ward the Tablets, counter a neutral block, or silence for Bloodlust.
This build does not hurt your farming power early. You should be relying on last hitting and not jungling. It focuses around having map control and maximizing early game power. Four wards and a six second silence is 1337 times better than a 25% crit early game. You can also choose to level up Vanish over Electric if you feel that your lane has enough disable and you need more DPS output. Also, you can skip leveling Marksman Shot if you need more defensive power. Basicaly, the rule when skill building is to have Electric Eye at level 1 and have it maxed out over Disarm. Everything else is situational.
----
StartersI'm not going to put down all the posible starters because starters are situational and preferencial. The only rule when buying your starters is to have a Loggers Hatchet. You can get what ever you feel you need after the axe. I personally go:Some Smart Early Game Item Pick Ups
2 Runes Of The Blight
1 Health Potion
1 Loggers Hatchet
1 Minor Totem/Mana Potion
I get so much staying power because lanes are always rough for carries. Basicaly, get items based around the expected lane plus Loggers Hatchet. =D
----The mistake that many players make is that they give no love to the early game items. Carry players should not stock up on them but should commit a little as most of the time they are needed. The purpose of these items is to make your life as easy as possible during laning by reducing harassment, add some damage, and increasing survivability. Items like Soul Scream Rings, Fortified Bracelets, Iron Shield, and etc. I prefer some items to others simply because of their make up, scaling, and/or cost. The most I ever get is an Iron Shield, maybe a Power Supply, and on rare cases, Mystic Vestments. All of Iron Shields components can be bought in the Outpost. But its biggest difference between Iron Buckler and Iron Shield is that it has a 100% chance to block, unlike 60% chance. This is a big deal to me as I do not trust luck, but if do not agree with me, I will not hate you for not upgrading. I find myself buying Mystic Vestments when there are active magical gankers out for my balls. I don't really like the 3-6-3 items, as their make up is not that good. They are still great pick up for early game damage and health. I just do not like them. All of these are optional. Do not be afraid to pick them up or to skip them!Core Items
----Scout has a set list of items that are "no exception" core. These are: Homecoming Stones, Loggers Hatchet, Steamboots, Runed Axe, and Shrunken Head. The order in which you pick up these items up, on the other hand, is optional.Luxury Items Choices
:HomecomingStone: Homecoming Stone
I could rant for 309842934 years on how important this item is.
TPing into a gank on your team to help, and maybe get a kill.
TPing to survive a gank squad with no stuns.
TPing to another lane to farm.
TPing to push, and counter push.
Make sure you have one at ALL TIME, except when you start :P.
Could have had a Homecoming Stone.
:LoggersHatchet: Loggers Hatchet
Not only does this item help with farm but also it is needed to gain access to plenty of great warding locations. You can drop it in the Fountain when you run out of space for Homecoming Stones.
:Steamboots: Steamboots
Steamboots are the best boots in the game. They give so much it is indeed retarded good sir. Indeed.
Vanish already does what Ghost Marchers do for you. Even if vanish didn't give unit walk--YOU KNOW WHAT? Even if Scout didn't have goddamn legs AND NEEDED PHASE, Steamboots would be core.
On a serious note, they actually give you more DPS than other boots, and can be used in clutch situations to save your ass. Change to STR to suck up that last hit, change to INT to get that tiny bit of mana for Vanish, and etc.
:RunedAxe: Runed Axe
Holy crap this item is controversial as hell but there are two heroes that truly have it core every game. One of them is Scout. Runed Axe solves his huge mana issue, shoots his farm to the sky, and gives him many points of damage. It fits very well with Scout, and his role.
:ShrunkenHead: Shrunken Head
Oh man, people are going to give me great amounts of #%$#%#$ for calling this a core item... here we go. The reason I call it core is because there is no serious game where the enemy will not have a decent amount of magic burst or crowd control. You can call it a situational item if you wish, but what do you call a situational item that is always needed?
A core item. Get at me.
----:SavageMace: Savage MaceSituational Items Choices
This is one of best, if not best, DPS items in the game. Anti evasion tool, can cancel channelling like Homecoming Stones and other spells, and SOOOOOO MUUUCH DAMAGE. It is the best DPS item choice for Scout. It is so good for Scout it is almost core as most of the time this will be your first big DPS item.
:Wingbow: Wingbow
Evasion, best attack speed choice (more attack speed for crit and Savage Mace procs), and a good amount of damage. Not the best DPS item but great very well rounded choice.
:Riftshards: Riftshards
Riftshards and Disarm do not stack but you get more crits! YAY
Best non-attack mod DPS item for Scout after Savage Mace.
:WhisperingHelm: Whispering Helm
This helmet is just godly for carry heroes. It gives you so much for farming. It makes hitting the late game much easier and most importantly it makes up...
:SymbolOfRage: Symbol Of Rage
Best life steal item in the game. You become extremely hard to kill. It can also be used with other attack mods like Frostwolfs Skull, Harkons Blade, and Shield Breaker because its active ability is a buff and therefore stacks.
Frost Burn
Frost Burn gives you everything: damage, attack speed, health, armour, a slow, and a high movement speed bonus. With Steamboots and Vanish active you will be just short of maximum movement speed, 521.
:FrostwolfsSkull: Frostwolfs Skull
This pretty much does everything that Frost Burn does except the movement speed bonus. It also gives mana, a better slow (attack AND movement speed slow, and in one hit too!), and more health. If you do not need the extra movement speed and/or you need the attack speed slow for enemy carries, this will be the superior choice.
:Shieldbreaker: Shieldbreaker
Ahh... The Breaker. It has the best DPS to cost ratio in the game. It is a solid pick when dealing with heroes with low late game armour and/or when you can get it very early (when their armour is very low). It also synergies with line ups including heroes that reduce armour like Demented Shaman, Pestilence, and Soulstealer
:HarkonsBlade: Harkons Blade
Harkons Blade is good when Shieldbreaker is not. It is best taken when the enemy does not have too much magic immunity and/or the enemy has too much armour for Shieldbreaker.
:PostHaste: Post Haste
You should pick this up when you are about to lose you last slot for Homecoming Stones.
----:NullfireBlade: Nullfire BladeItems to Avoid
Consider picking up this one when heroes like Jeraziah, Hammer Storm, and/or The Dark Lady are making your life hard. If someone else on your team can pick this up then it would be for the better. You do not want to waste an item slot where better DPS could be.
:Nullstone: Nullstone
I know I say that you should not be getting items that give little to no offensive value on carries but sometimes this item is REALLY needed. You need to get this up when playing against heroes like Deadwood and Succubus that have single target ultimate that go through your Shrunken Head. You do not have a choice. You are not Chronos who can target them in his Chronofield.
:Portalkey: Portalkey
WHOA WUT U DUMB PK WUUUUT?!?!?
I tried this out a while ago and it was pretty cool. Our team lacked initiation and they had plenty of true sight. Now I think it is worth a mention.
----:Brutalizer: BrutalizerBuilding your Core
nononono. Please do not get this item. It is not your job to disable. Yours is to damage. This item is like Kuldra's Sheepstick and Savage Mace combined except worse than both by like.... a crap ton. If you need disables, your team should be getting them. Get Savage Mace.
:EnhancedMarchers: Ghost Marchers
You have Vanish. Get Steamboots.
Ghost Marchers are ganker boots. What did I say Scout was not? A ganker. Get Steamboots.
Ghost Marchers do more damage? No, they do not. Get Steamboots.
More mobility equals more survivability. So does more health. Get Steamboots.
What boots are good on every hero? Not Ghost Marchers. Guess what are. Steamboots, now get them you twats. -.-
:AbyssalSkull: Abyssal Skull
You really should not be getting this item. If you need it, your team should be getting it, not you.
:HelmOfTheBlackLegio Helm Of The Black Legion/Behemoth's Heart/Other Tank Items :BehemothsHeart:
Do not get items that give no offensive value. If you want to tank more then get Frost Burn, Frostwolfs Skull, or Symbol Of Rage. At least they give some utility and damage.
:GeometersBane: Geometers Bane
This item may be OP, but it is not OP in Scout's hands. You are melee, which means you will be fighting to get though your illusions to attack and not fighting the enemy, and it dispels your Vanish buff.
:Hellflower: Hellflower
Again, you are not a disabler, you already have a silence, and there are better DPS items for you.
:ChargedHammer: Charged Hammer oraemonicBreastplate Daemonic Breastplate
There are better DPS item choices. If you want attack speed get Wingbow. It gives so much more defensively and offensively.
:Codex::Codex::Codex: Wards/Assassins Shroud/Codex/50 minute Insanitarius :Codex::Codex::Codex:
??????
----NEVER AND I MEAN NEVER RUSH EXPENSIVE CORE ITEMSBuilding After Core and Choosing an Attack Modifier
At least get Marchers before finishing Runed Axe. I cannot stress this enough. Marchers are the most important item in the game. More than Wards. More than the Courier. More than Blacksmith's penis. Vanish is not an excuse for skipping Marchers. Vanish is too mana dependent and is, therefore, unreliable.
When you start farming in your lane you should be working toward getting Lifetube from the Outpost. If your lane is experiencing plenty of action then rush Steamboots after Lifetube to help your team net some kills and/or help you survive. Then proceed to finish Sustainer into Runed Axe. If you having a quiet lane get Marchers after Lifetube, then finish your Sustainer into Runed Axe then to Steamboots. Always finish Sustainer before completing Runed Axe. You need the regeneration.
When should I start working on Shrunken Head?
You should be getting it anytime after Runed Axe and Steamboots are finished, and when the team fight phase is here or is approaching.
----Note that I do not include situational items like Nullstone into this discussion because you should get those whenever you feel you need them.
Usually you are going to build Scout after core something like this:
||Attack Mod|| >> Savage Mace >> ||Attack Mod|| >> Wingbow/Riftshards/Symbol Of Rage
You will be picking up your attack mod ether before or after Savage Mace. The next best DPS items are Wingbow and Riftshards. Symbol of Rage is taken if needed.
Truthfully, I go for:
Whispering Helm >> Savage Mace >> Symbol Of Rage >> Wingbow/Riftshards
every game because I really do not think getting another attack mod is worth gimping Symbol Of Rage and its godliness. Scout has very high movement speed coupled with Savage Maces mini stun (though not really significant) can usually chase without a problem. But I will acknowledge that sometimes, you will need that slow + movement speed/slow from Frost Burn/Frostwolfs Skull. Also, I feel that Shieldbreaker (alone) and Harkons Blade are too easily countered and that this build gives all around coverage in terms of damage. This is the way I prefer it because it is safe and that is my way of building.
If you feel you need Frost Burn then it should be taken when the team fights are spread and people are going to be running around. This is key, because what is the point of a movement speed slow if people are going to be clumped and not moving? Frostwolfs Skull can be picked this up for the same reason and/or an enemy carry is rampaging and needs a nice big cup of STFU. You can also pick up Symbol Of Rage if needed.
Take them when you need them, before or right after Savage Mace.
Savage Mace//Frost Burn/Frostwolfs Skull >> Frost Burn/Frostwolfs Skull//Savage Mace >>Wingbow/Riftshards/Symbol Of Rage
If you are going to get Harkons Blade then you should get some from of damage first like Savage Mace as Harkons gives little damage on its on and it serves as a way through armour.
Savage Mace >> Harkons Blade >> Wingbow/Riftshards/Symbol Of Rage
This does not apply to Shieldbreaker as it provides lots of damage by its self. You should think of getting Shieldbreaker when your line up suits it. For example, you have a Pestilence and a Soulstealer on your team. Shieldbreaker will be thrice as usefull. Thanks to SilverStars for bringing that up.
Shieldbreaker >> Savage Mace/Wingbow/Riftshards/Symbol Of Rage >> Savage Mace/Wingbow/Riftshards/Symbol Of Rage
As I said before, build how you like not how I like. I told you what not to build and I gave as many viable options I can think of.
Last edited by ObeseSheep; 03-13-2011 at 11:20 PM.
Game Play
Game Phase Walk Through
Prelaning PhaseAt the beginning of the game you should buy your starter items quickly and make your way to ward both tablet spots. If you team has one of them warded, ward the other.Laning Phase
If you are going top for Hellbourne or bottom for Legion you can also use the wards for anti warding your neutral pull.
If you are going top for Legion or bottom for Hellbourne then you can use the wards to block their neutral pull.
If a bloodlust battle starts then it will be hard for you to get your silence off before they use their spells. Play it save, but if your team has the upper hand make sure you get the kill. You need it, you are the carry.
----Scout has great late game for a reason. He does little to nothing early and that is what you will be doing for your team. Stay in your lane and farm to the best of your ability.Mid Game
If things get heavy, try to help your team as much as possible. Do not be an idiot. When I say help. That does not mean suicide like a Andromedia would for you.
----IT'S MID GAME MY FRIENDLate Game
The lanes are starting to fall apart, ganks are common, and teams are pushing. This is about the time you should be finishing your Runed Axe. Once you finish your Runed Axe you can finally be useful to your team as now you hit pretty hard. You should still be farming and keeping your wards up when you can. This is not the time when you can hunt for some kills. The most common mistake I see when players finish their Runed Axe is that they do not use it. Just because you finished you Runed Axe it does not mean you should stop farming. You should be farming more. The difference is that it is easier. Help you team when you need to and take some kills when you happen to run into them, or they run into you, but other wise it is FARM FARM FARM! Welcome to the world of carries. =D
----If you have reached this far in then that, for the most part, means your team did not break and concede, and you are doing well in terms of items and farm.Things Going Down The Pooper?
This is the time to help your team. You should be pushing, killing Kongor, farming, and ganking. You should just be doing more then just farming.
----They got Bloodlust on you? You feeding? Early pushes crippling your farm?Usage
To be honest, if things go bad, there is little you can do to change that when playing Scout. The best you can do is farm. Most of the change needs to come from your team.
DO NOT GIVE UP UNTIL AT LEAST 17-20 MINUTES IN. Until then, things can change. Most of the time carries will over react and give up because they died twice or something small. Twice is bad but it will not cost you the game. Keep your cool. Turn arounds can happen.
----
Attack Efficiency and Animation CancellingWhen attacking an enemy you want to get as many hits as possible. To do this you have to use positioning and animation.Ganking
Positioning you self in the direction the enemy is most likely going to run will block them a little so that you can get more attacks in. Then you have to animation cancel and keep moving in front of them to continuously block them. Small things like this can be the difference between a kill and a OMFG I COULD HAVE GOT THAT AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHH.
Scout has a pretty nice attack animation. But, more then half of the full animation can be cancelled. When chasing it is very important that you cancel his animation because OH EM GEE, he takes LIKE, a billion years to, like, start, like, attacking agaaaaaain, especially early on, like. If you are not having a brain aneurysm because of how fast you are animation cancelling while chasing, you are doing it wrong.
When Scout attacks his damage is applied right before he hits the target. Try and cancel right when his blade is 2 millimetres from hitting. This will take practise.
Here is an example.
----Ganking with Scout is not rocket silence (Ugh... I just said that... Shame).Map Control
Go in, drop your ward, and then start attacking them. DO NOT DETONATE BEFORE YOU ATTACK.
You want to maximize the amount of time they are silenced. Attack them and when they see that you are killing them, Detonate. This might take some practice to get the timing right. If the enemy is known for having quick reflexes COUGH CHU COUGH, then you can silence earlier. When they are low enough, shoot them in the ass with Marksman Shot.
Scout. Anal for everyone! =D
And now, with the change to Marksman Shot you no longer have to chase enemies down in bushy areas. It is now a consistent and easy finisher.
You can also open with Marksman Shot but if the enemy has a Shrunken Head, Geometers Bane, or Nullfire Blade then they can dispel the slow and run.
When going in ALWAYS check the enemies inventory quickly. You want to see if they have true sight and any wards down around them. How?
Example time. You, the lovely supportive style Scout player, are planning to gank a strong ganking hero who is farming the lane for a little, and a support hero who is getting some much needed XP. You do not have Shrunken Head (yet I hope). Your target is the support hero because he or she is clothy. The support hero is poorly positioned and is at half HP. You check their inventory and see that the support hero has one Ward Of Revelation. What does this mean? When you buy Wards Of Revelation you get two. Our support player here has one. Which means he or she used one. You do not know if he or she used it in that lane and is baiting you. He or she could have used it to check a common warding spot and failed. What do you do?
Do not go in.
You could risk it, but the reward is not worth the risk. The best case is that you go in, they do not react, proceed to silence both of them, drop the support hero, and then Vanish into the wind before the silence wears off the ganker. The worst case is that you go in and the ganker is like, "It seems there is a Scout in my premises that needs to stop shooting me in the ass, and start sucking his own dick for a change." and then, along with the support hero, disables, and drops your stupid ass.
Not worth the risk.
The same a concept of ganking is applied when ganking with teammates.
----I'm starting to see why people think Scout is garbage and why I cannot find a really good replay of Scout play. I do not think I will ever find one until maybe, I can start playing again. If you check the replay section you will see that no one gets map control.Replays
PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF BLACKSMITH USE YOUR WARDS. THEY ARE THE REASON SCOUT IS PICKED. THERE ARE BETTER CARRIES.
You should never be running around warding. You should not have the time as you should be farming. The key to keeping your wards up is to ward while farming. When moving between neutrals or lanes, try and drop a ward where needed. For example, you can replace the top tablet ward while stacking the Legion ancients.
I do not recommend using wards to counter on high places. If you really need to, place a ward on a ledge near the target ward and let your support deal with it.
You can hide your wards by placing them on ledges, chopping down trees and placing them in the forest, and placing them in positions that do not experience traffic, e.g. far side of lanes. Place wards to cover areas that regular wards would be aiming to get. I am not going to teach you common warding knowlege because there are guides for that.
During the Laning Phase try to get good coverage of your lane. Later on you can do what ever.
I use two wards for the Tablets, one ward for Kongor, and one ward to keep an eye on flanks when pushing, leaving the last ward for battle. This allows my team to use their wards aggressively without having to worry about key areas like Kongor and the Tablets.
However, just like items, it is preferential and situational.
Here are plenty of examples of Electric Eye placement:
NOTE: I understand that these examples are from the pre-patch map. However, the warding spots still apply as non of these areas were effected. Let me know if there are any mistakes or if you know of a good spot. Thanks.
Kongor-----------------------Top Tablet------------------------This is the best one because there are no other spots that you can place on top of a ledge and still get a good view.Bottom Tablet------------------------This is pretty much the most common spot for the top rune. It has very nice coverage but can very easily be spotted and taken out by a hero with a Bound Eye.This is less likely to be spotted by a hero with bound eye but it does not cover the ramp to the Hellbourne mid.This can not seen by wards placed near the neutral camp and is probably the safest but does not cover the second ramp from the Legion jungle to the river.Legion Neutral Block------------------------Chop down this tree:If the Legion team has a jungler, you can put it closer to the neutral spawn and block it as shown.Legion Jungle------------------------Left Orange Camp:
Yellow Camp:
Middle Orange Camp:
Chop down this tree:And place here:
Bottom Right Orange Camp:Tree hidden spot; chop down this tree:And place here:
Top Right Orange Camp:
Chop down this tree:And place here:
Red Ancients Camp:
Chop down this tree:And place here:Bottom Lane------------------------Hellbourne Neutral Block------------------------Hellbourne Jungle------------------------Far Left Orange Camp:
Left Orange Camp:
Chop down this tree:And place here:
Bottom Orange Camp:
Chop down this tree:And place here:
Yellow Camp:
Right Orange Camp:
Red Ancients Camp
Cut down this tree:And place here:Top Lane----------------------------To Do ListConclusion
NOTE: ALL THE REPLAYS ARE GONE. I DON'T KNOW WHAT HAPPENED. I NEED BRAND NEW ONES NOW.
[M]15832109[/M]
Player: l34Um1
This replay is an example of a come back. Mr. l34Um1 started very poorly. He died twice and finished his Steamboots and Runed Axe core very late. But because l34Um1 was left alone he was able to get his farm up. His team turned things around with many team fight wins and then went to a victory.
This is by no means the best example of good farm and item choice. If he had rushed Steamboots after Life Tube he would have had a much easier time. He got Whispering Helm but never used it to farm. If you are going to get use it to stack neutral camps and shoot your farm to the sky. Lastly, he went for Savage Mace and not Shrunken Head when he needed it. There were some other mistakes like not silencing in battle, [B]failure to keep map control[/B], or being rambo but over all, a good watch.
Something I find interesting about his play is that he used Homecoming Stones to move around the map and farm. I am more the guy who likes the jungle.
[M]16460533[/M]
Player: PlayScout
Holy crap this guy had it rough early game, from tough lanes to ganks. But some how finished his Runed Axe by 22 minutes. He then got many kills in team fights and ganks. Something interestng to note is his item choice, Nullstone. It was really good to pick up as early as he did. The Arachna was a pain and he needed the health and mana that his level limited to. I would have liked him to get Steamboots earlier to be safe but that's my scared ass preference.
I do not know why he got Shieldbreaker when they had an Armadon. Harkons Blade whould have been a much better choice.
Very nice play but as many Scout players do, [B]he completely ignored map control.[/B]
[B]READ FIRST[/B] [M]14947637[/M] [B]READ FIRST[/B]
Player: Black
Holy crap this one is epic. It was a pretty one sided game. Black had huge problems from begining to the end of the game. His lane was raping him, ganks were everywhere, and anything else you can think of. He got his Runed Axe and Steamboots by 26 minutes in. Things looked really bad for the Hellbourne.
Now when I say epic, I mean the game, not the Scout play. The reason his team won was not because of him but of his team's great team fight power. Black got the correct items.... But, that is not why I am showing you this replay. This shows why Scout is not picked in competitive play. BECAUSE NO ONE KNOWS HOW TO USE HIM. I know his ult needs a buff and his form of DPS is flawed. BUT, that is no excuse for horrible play. [B]HE ONLY USED ONE WARD AND IT WAS FOR COUNTER WARDING.[/B] If he had his eyes up, he would have been protected from Magmus and helped his team gank without directly doing so. He got Whispering Helm for nothing. He might as well have built Brutalizer. He did not farm and went around ganking. He could have had his forest warded to protect him from ganks and farmed in peace. Sometimes he was just running around and nothing more. [B]Do not play Scout like this or I will come to your fine establishment and slap you, good madam/sir.[/B]
----I hope you laughed A LITTLE AT LEAST, and more importantly learned AT LEAST SOMETHING, even if you already knew how to play Scout.
Again, criticism is much appreciated IN GREAT DETAIL.
Thanks for reading. =D
Last edited by ObeseSheep; 03-11-2011 at 09:27 PM.
Last edited by ObeseSheep; 10-19-2010 at 10:12 PM.
browse my games from day 1 -> now for scout replays, except your guide is pretty bad, item builds completely wrong, avoid ghost and abysmal ROFL
Match 15694074
830 xpm, 600+ gpm scout replay for you
personally
i like
1: eye
2: vanish
3: vanish
4: disarm
5: vanish
6: disarm
7: vanish:
8: disarm
9: disarm
aka 1 into eye, max vanish then disarm
i feel it gives maximum farming potential
1 eye just to ward for your lane (short lane)
use 2nd eye for emergency silences and counter warding your pull spot.
you dont have time to be running around warding
disarm makes a big difference with jungling
level 1 ult is terrible and is just going to make you go oom
after vanish/disarm
i usually max eye so i can set up defensive spots to aid my farming as i should be mopping up the jungle+ancients at this point and i dont want any nasty surprises
then ult because sometimes (rarely) it can score you a kill
heres some recent games
http://replays.heroesofnewerth.com/m...p?mid=15278490 - one sided but shows pretty good farming. got brutalizer for fun since they werent
http://replays.heroesofnewerth.com/m...p?mid=14228003 - pub stomping. RA + 2 doombringers ~30 minutes
Last edited by Gipp; 10-05-2010 at 11:52 PM.
VOriginally Posted by WHY_U_SO_MAD
V
Why do you think Ghost Marchers are viable on a carry with unit walking?
Steamboots also do more dmg.
abysmal. Look up what you just typed and see what it means and how it contradicts your point.
I really don't want to waste an item slot for Abyssal Skull when your support player could get it for you and you can get something like :HarkonsBlade: in its place.
You are not going to be jungling untill you finish your :RunedAxe: anyway and on rare cases, :Sustainer:. That's why I like that skill build. Also, when using the extra wards you should be using them in your lane to protect you from flanks and stuff.
You got :Brutalizer:... No thanks.
Last edited by ObeseSheep; 10-05-2010 at 11:48 PM.
lol.. i got it in the last 30 seconds of the game as a joke...
Okay I'll take a look. but i'm leaving tommorow. i might get it up today. I'll see. Thanks.
Ghost Marchers gives 24 more damage than Steamboots - which for a hero who relies on burst is very important. Abyssal Skull is thebestonly option for lifesteal if you happen to want Harkon's Blade or Shieldbraker, and you'll always want to get one of them.
I have returned
No they don't. You get Steamboots not because they do extra damage, but because they give hp. Ghosts are if you don't think you need hp and want to do some dps earlygame as well. Maybe you could use steams to spam ult or something, dunno.
I disagree that Abyssal is the only lifesteal choice. Whispering Helm is really quite good if you pick up a Shrunken head with it, because your burst flurry will take out at most one opponent and you still need to do something after that. Occasionally you won't need to pick up Shieldbreaker or Harkons, say if you have Demented Shaman and Soulstealer already with a Shieldbreaker on your team. Or even if it's just DSham.
It's spelt Chronos. C-H-R-O-N-O-S. YOU DO NOT SPELL IT CHORNOS OR CRONOS, IT'S CHRONOS. ARE YOU RETARDED?
Vote Up for the "TOO BAD IT'S ME 0.1% CHANCE FOR 7X MULTICAST LOLOLOL" suggestion!
Annoyed at Zephyr/Warbeast? Play games with him, click on the scout.
WHOA I'M BACK
Do the math (I should find that quote though. QQ). Steamboots have more DPS. You have a good point about synergy. i'll pop that in.
Meh. There are many many problems. From farming to early get item order. If you picked up boots you could have helped your team so much more. Even little red booties. HenryD can back me up. I'm not shittin you, there were many times when I was like: too bad he don haf dem booties.
Why get :AbyssalSkull: when a support hero can get it for you if you need it?
Even if your support hero is being an ass I wouldnt waste it.
Last edited by ObeseSheep; 10-09-2010 at 01:14 PM.
Bump, I need one more replay.
-Added youtube video of animation canceling.
-Finished warding section. Any other examples would be nice thanks.
Last edited by ObeseSheep; 10-10-2010 at 06:00 PM.
I'd like to point something out. Note that this is simply my opinion.
The idea of Scout and competitive play in the same sentence is a joke. Scout is the epitome of a farm 24/7 hero. You can rant about his rather damaging ult, AoE silence, wards, or disarm, but at the end of the day, the majority of his dps is going to come from flurry.
That is a problem, because once you break vanish, even if you have a successful 4 hit combo, + silence, you are basically useless for the next 6 seconds. At that point, Scout's dps is so mediocre. You basically have to hide and wait 6 seconds until flurry is up again.
Furthermore, you need a boatload of dps items to actually really put out the pain with flurry. RA only isn't going to cut it. You might do 600 damage or so after reductions, which quite frankly, is a joke. After you are then forced to deal mediocre damage until you can flurry again.
That's why I don't like shrunken head. It defeats the purpose of a glass cannon. You do 600 damage or so, and are magic immune for a while, so u can deal another 600 damage 6 seconds later? The blunt truth is, Scout is NOT as well balanced as other hard carry heroes. He depends nearly completely on flurry, which has a 6 second cooldown. The RA + shrunken combo might work on madman or tdl, but it is not going to work well on Scout.
Because of this, Scout is virtually the only hero in HoN I consider a true glass cannon, because the only way he is a huge threat is if flurry itself is doing enough damage to make him a huge threat. Steamboots, RA, savage mace, harkon's, in that order, is basically the only build I ever use when I play scout, because it plays to his strengths. Yes, I completely understand that on many heroes, you should build to cover that hero's weakness, but on Scout, it just doesn't work because of his emphasis on flurry.
I have tried "well-balanced" items that are strong on other carry heroes like shrunken, frostburn, and fws. They fail, because all scout cares about is landing that flurry of death.
That is why I think Scout is near useless in competitive play, because his optimal style as a glass cannon and hard ricer will probably never be useful, particularly with heroes like devo, DR etc on the field. It has got to the point that when I play Scout, I virtually farm steamboots RA and svg mace before I even bother contributing to a team fight, without the fight coming to me.
Like I said in another thread, that is a problem, because Scout is the only hero who needs absolutely massive farm to be useful. The only hard carry that falls in the same class is a MB that builds around RA, which, quite frankly, is just stupid. Both an early Mock or early nullfire make SW a threat as well. Don't think I need to comment on SB, Chronos, madman or tDL.
A hard carry that takes nearly 30 minutes of farm before he is at least equally useful as the above hard carries? Why bother.
That's just my view on Scout, and why I think, quite honestly, he is a joke of a hero.
Last edited by Lethe; 10-10-2010 at 08:38 PM.
I don't think that he is useless after flurry but I would have to do the math to compare. He is not viable because his early game is just garbage. His ult costs so much and if they just increased its cast time and lowered its cost then he he might see some play. His ult is just so useless and bad. COME ON, CHRONOS HAS A 5 SEC STUN, HE HAS A SLOW, COME ON. Everything else is really good. But I agree, he needs a buff.
IDK how this has to do with my guide but you should post something in the balance section because they are rejecting mine and not telling me.
It doesn't have much to do with your guide. I basically saw that you put down shrunken as core though, and decided to rant about why I don't like shrunken on Scout, at least not early.
The blunt truth is though, that if you went an afkfarm glass cannon hero, Scout is the hero for you. Personally I think that concept is incredibly useless, but hey, people play HoN for fun, and sometimes, they DO want that afkfarm glass cannon hero. Which is probably why he doesn't get changed.
Because, I will be the first to admit that killing an enemy carry with one flurry is indeed thrilling. Unfortunately, that's all Scout is essentially good for as a carry hero.
I do encourage you to do some mathcraft behind various carry heroes and builds that are common on them. I'm betting that you will see that beyond flurry, Scout's dps is absolutely nothing special. A late-game flurry takes about 1.3 seconds to execute though. After that, you have 6 seconds where you deal mediocre dps.
I see what you mean.
I take :ShrunkenHead: as core because it is stupid not to get it. It's likenot leveling Stone Hide. He wouldn't be able to do anything.
As for the guide, any sugestions?
Predator doesn't do all his damage in 1.3 seconds and doesn't have a 6 second AoE silence.
You should have my Scout game up, since it shows much better than your no-stat game early game farming / surviving against fairly stupid lanes. The endgame may be gimmicky, but the early game shows what you need to do.
I have returned
This is what late-game Scout looks like:
Survey Enemy heroes. Look out especially for eye, wards of revelation, or dust.
Find target to flurry. Flurry that target, while using silence to prevent stuns.
If your silence is successful, hack away, if not (i.e. you miss someone) you run away, spamming q until you can vanish again.
Now you don't have silence. Look for low hp target to kill with flurry.
Rinse and repeat. Note how I didn't add in ult since the situation for you using ult varies. Sometimes you will use it to soften up a target before the fight even begins, other times you will use it to pick off stragglers while invis.
Scout doesn't carry with brute force like Chronos, madman or tdl does. He is simply an opportunist who can only fight when vanish is not on cd. Out of all the heroes that can be countered by wards of revelation/bound eye, Scout is hurt the most. If they see you while you are invisible, this is literally NOTHING you can do, other then wait for an opening like an allied stun.
No wonder people hate Scout so much. His playstyle virtually demands he targets low hp heroes, unless he is farmed enough that he can take on stronger prey. And even then, his playstyle doesn't change that much, open with silence+flurry, continue attacking if safe, otherwise run away like a little girl until vanish is up, rinse and repeat except without silence, use ult when necessary. It's much easier to stop a Scout with wards/eye then a NH or madman.
Last edited by Lethe; 10-11-2010 at 03:32 AM.
16549063
It wasn't a stomp I guess, as my early game was really bad, and I went with a Ring of the Teacher as well, I hope you don't mind.
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