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  1. #1

    The Tall Man (Supportive and Offensive Tank)

    Hello HoN and S2, first let me thank you for bringing this incredible game to us! I am really enjoying it all!

    Now I have made a hero suggestion once at DotA Allstars before, but it was completely overshadowed of course because of the numerous other topics. Perhaps I will have more recognition this time...

    One more thing, I have absolutely no clue if this hero can be made in the game, nor am I experienced with number information, but I do have a good feeling of making balanced spells, so let's see how this will turn out.



    NOTE: I did not draw this! I found this using Google. I am only showing you this so that you can have a basic idea of Odo's appearance. Consider that Odo's face would appear much less alien like and more human like then.


    Name: Odo The Tall Man
    Affiliation: Hellbourne
    Primary Attribute: Strength
    Attack Type: Melee
    Melee Range: 128
    Concept: A reliable tank who is supportive as well as offensive.
    Visual: Mix Keeper of The Forest with Tiny, Pebbles and Treant Protector and you will get the idea, only we are talking about a skinny wood based being then.

    Backstory: Having lived in the tallest mountains for as far as he knows, Odo takes great pride in nature, and thoroughly enjoys any chance to explore it's beauty every time. Appearing as a mysterious wood based being, he hunts regulary on animals, but next to that, he also loves to eat lumber. Day after day this is Odo's standard routine.

    Rumours appeared around Newerth however that supposedly Odo used to be a normal human once, but through a bizarre experiment with nature, ended up looking like a living tall and skinny bough puppet. By pure coincident, the Puppet Master crossed paths with Odo shortly after his transformation. As he was mentally broken by his twisted appearance, the Puppet Master took easily advantage of the situation. He happened to be so fascinated by Odo that he channeled all of his manipulating will into him, changing him into the greatest puppet the Puppet Master has made yet.

    After that process, the Puppet Master simply let Odo go back to his nature life. But whenever the routine is broken, Legion would well know by then that Odo has succumbed to the Puppet Master's will once again and will do anything then to obliterate Hellbourne's enemies.

    __________________________________________________
    Concept Summary

    Here you will encounter a very brief summary of each skill The Tall Man offers:


    Granite Growth:

    Makes a targeted tree indestructable, gives full magic resistance when Odo sits on it and at higher levels, provides fadeout invisibility in a small radius.



    Consume:

    Eats a targeted tree, replenishing a percent amount of HP and stores "lumber" inside Odo's belly.

    -Granite Growth and Consume are together a switch skill.



    Climb and Crash:

    Climbs a targeted tree and Odo's next move will be crashing at a target location, dealing AOE damage, 30% AOE slow and any additional damage depending on the amount of "lumber" currently stored.



    Forest Disturbance:

    Creates a specific unstable AOE area, which deals chance based damage individually for enemies walking on it over 12 seconds. After that, the effect is gone and Odo will be able to trap anyone inside at any time for a few seconds. The area then fully disappears.


    Trunk Tissue:

    Either increases an ally hero or Odo's maximum HP and HP regeneration or degenerates maximum HP and HP regeneration for enemy heroes temporarily. Can only be cast once on each hero.
    __________________________________________________
    Statistics

    The Tall Man's stats feature less strength but more intelligence and slightly more agility than Keeper of the Forest:

    Base Attack Cooldown: 1.5 second
    Attack Cooldown: 1.303 second, 0.610 attacks per second
    Starting Attack: 48-54
    Armor: 2.50
    Movement Speed: 290
    Attack Speed: 109
    Cast Speed: 100(Not counting channeling moments)

    Strength: 22
    Strength per level: 3.3
    Bonuses: +1 damage, +15 max HP, +0.02 HP regeneration

    Agility: 15
    Agility per level: 1.6
    Bonuses: +2 attack speed, 0.16 armor

    Intelligence: 18
    Intelligence per level: 2.1
    Bonuses: +15 max mana, +0.06 mana regeneration
    __________________________________________________
    TTM'S Role
    As you could read from the title already, The Tall Man is supposed to be a supportive and/or offensive tank.

    Early game The Tall Man can either farm with with good progress using Consume and Forest Disturbance or creep in the woods using pulling and the same 2 respective spells. Choosing between these two strategies would probably be the player's best bet because going for Climb and Crash very early on would probably be hard to pull of effectively.

    CnC's true strength comes with Consume(And Granite Growth of course), but you could already use 1 point in CnC early on already because of the 30% slow.

    At the midgame, Forest Disturbance, Climb and Crash and Granite Growth start to become extremely important for potential ganking, chasing and overcoming the enemy. Here is where the offensive part of Odo comes in.

    It isn't until late game(Excluding FD's trap ability throughout the game) that Odo becomes supportive because of Trunk Tissue, making it possible to create fearsome tanks for the team.

    So, The Tall Man is more of an offensive one, but he clearly isn't carry material either, so that makes him a supportive and offensive tank.

    __________________________________________________
    Skills in Depth

    1: Granite Growth/Consume:

    Switch Skill, similar to DotA's Troll Warlord functionality.

    Switch Cooldown: 0.50 second.

    Granite Growth:



    Strengthens a tree's very roots, almost like giving it a fortification, making it impossible to destroy the tree and provides cover for The Tall Man at later levels if he decides to hide under it.

    He does so by almost like blending himself with the tree. These effects will be permanent through the rest of the game. At each level, Odo gets full magic resistance whenever sitting on top of a GG'd tree, not under it, but ultimates, physical damage and unique spells such as Taunt may still work.

    Type: Physical.
    Target: Tree.
    Chance: Only if a tree is intact.
    Channeling time: 1 second.
    Duration: Permanent.
    Mana Cost: 90/90/95/95
    Cooldown: 90/70/50/30 seconds.
    Fadeout invisibility activation: Lvl3 4 seconds, Lvl4 3 seconds.
    Invisibility radius: 300

    Visually the tree would turn into a color which makes it stand out from all the other trees on the map. I was thinking of either brown/grey or dark purple.

    Lvl 1: Makes a targeted tree impossible to destroy and gives Odo full magic resistance when sitting on top of this tree.

    Lvl 2: Makes a targeted tree impossible to destroy and gives Odo full magic resistance when sitting on top of this tree.

    Lvl 3: Makes a targeted tree impossible to destroy and gives Odo full magic resistance when sitting on top of this tree. Provides fadeout invisibility to self(4 second fade time), even when sitting on the tree.

    Lvl 4: Makes a targeted tree impossible to destroy. and gives Odo full magic resistance when sitting on top of this tree. Provides fadeout invisibility to self(3 second fade time), even when sitting on the tree.

    Important Details(Please read both Granite Growth and Climb and Crash from beginning to the end!):

    -A tree being indestructable means that not even 1 AOE spell even when it's an ultimate can destroy the tree. Runes of Blight or KotF's grabbing tree spell will no longer work on it as well.

    -If The Tall Man used Climb and Crash without Granite Growth, then you can consider that every spell works on the tree AND him(After reading the important details of CnC).

    -Granite Growth cannot be used on the giant boughs appearing in Forest Disturbance!

    __________________________________________________

    Consume:



    Upon switching to Consume and targeting a tree, The Tall Man eats it like when you use a Rune of the Blight. He then restores a percent of his HP and stores lumber inside his belly. With each eaten tree, he becomes taller, increasing his vision more than other heroes. Switching back to Granite Growth would still provide these benefits.

    The number of storage regarding lumber goes from 2 to 5 as the switch skill reaches level 4. With each lumber, height and vision also increase for a maximum of 5 times. After storing enough lumber, The Tall Man can endlessly keep on eating any other tree for more restoration.

    Type: Physical.
    Target: Tree
    Chance: Only if a tree is intact.
    Damage: None.
    Duration: 1.5 second for the HP restoration.
    Mana Cost: 30
    Cooldown: 2 seconds.

    Lvl 1: Eats a targeted tree, restores 1% of hero's HP in 1.5 seconds and stores 1 lumber inside his belly, making him taller and increasing vision range by 50 with each lumber. Maximum storage of 2 lumbers.

    Lvl 2: Eats a targeted tree, restores 2% of hero's HP in 1.5 seconds and stores 1 lumber inside his belly, making him taller and increasing vision range by 50 with each lumber. Maximum storage of 3 lumbers.

    Lvl 3: Eats a targeted tree, restores 3% of hero's HP in 1.5 seconds and stores 1 lumber inside his belly, making him taller and increasing vision range by 50 with each lumber. Maximum storage of 4 lumbers.

    Lvl 4: Eats a targeted tree, restores 4% of hero's HP in 1.5 seconds and stores 1 lumber inside his belly, making him taller and increasing vision range by 50 with each lumber. Maximum storage of 5 lumbers.

    Effects: The Tall Man grabs a tree and swallows it all up in a kind of comical way. Think like Wario when he eats in Super Smash Bros. Brawl. His belly would then grow more lumber from the outside, indicating how much lumber he
    currently carries. Restoration of 1%/ 2%/ 3%/ 4%/ HP heal over 1.5 second. Maximum storage of 2/3/4/5 lumbers. Read about Climb and Crash for more information regarding this.

    __________________________________________________

    2: Climb and Crash:



    Target location AOE initiator

    The Tall Man starts climbing up a targeted tree if he can reach it(Using Consume or just Runes of the Blight) which takes some channeling time. Once at the top, The Tall Man gets provided with great vision(Same as an orb ward, but the vision is even greater the taller he is), and if the location allows it, he can jump directly at a target location.

    Once he lands, the strength of the impact depends on the amount of lumber he is carrying. While in any case it does slow enemies's movements in an AOE, the damage goes higher with each stored lumber. After using Climb and Crash, The Tall Man shrinks back to his original form, which means he will have to collect lumber again. Also, whenever he dies, he will also shrink at resurrection.

    Visually The Tall Man is visible if he is on a tree, but if for example he has an invisible rune or uses KotF's invisibility, or even better Granite Growth(Making him also invisible at the top of the tree), the enemy will not be able to see him, unless someone like Thunderbringer uses his ulti or nuke.

    In situational moments, The Tall Man can also use this spell from a cliff, but not vice versa, making it a semi dagger. When this happens, the climbing proces(Channeling time) is ignored.

    Type: Magic
    Target: Location
    Chance: Only if the location allows it.
    Damage: 55/110/165/220. Damage increases with each lumber. Lumber=50 damage each. 5 lumbers would make 250 additional damage then to each target.
    Channeling Time: 2 seconds to reach the top of a tree.
    Duration: 3 seconds for the slow.
    Mana Cost: 110
    Cooldown: 8 seconds
    Vision: Initially starting at 100, Consume can improve this for a total of 5 times. Normally Consume gives 50 vision on the ground, but when sitting on a tree, Odo gets 100 vision for each stored lumber, making for a total of 500 vision.

    Lvl 1: Climbs a targeted tree in 2 seconds, Providing great vision(100) which can be improved with Consume and is then able to jump and crash at a targeted location within range, dealing 55 damage and any additional damage in an AOE depending on the amount of lumber currently stored. Will always lower movement speed to 30%.

    Lvl 2: Climbs a targeted tree in 2 seconds, Providing great vision(100) which can be improved with Consume and is then able to jump and crash at a targeted location within range, dealing 110 damage and any additional damage in an AOE depending on the amount of lumber currently stored. Will always lower movement speed to 30%.

    Lvl 3: Climbs a targeted tree in 2 seconds, Providing great vision(100) which can be improved with Consume and is then able to jump and crash at a targeted location within range, dealing 165 damage and any additional damage in an AOE depending on the amount of lumber currently stored. Will always lower movement speed to 30%.

    Lvl 4: Climbs a targeted tree in 2 seconds, Providing great vision(100) which can be improved with Consume and is then able to jump and crash at a targeted location within range, dealing 220 damage and any additional damage in an AOE depending on the amount of lumber currently stored. Will always lower movement speed to 30%.

    Effects: Starts climbing up a tree using his tall legs and arms, and then sits in a way as if he is ready to jump at any time. Once he starts jumping high into the air with all legs and arms stretched out, he makes a powerful crash on the ground, creating shockwaves. The shockwaves look more impressive with each carried lumber.
    Range: 650
    Radius: 200
    30% movement slow.

    Example:



    An Enemy is creeping a Creep camp nearby a Rune spot while The Tall Man, sitting on top of a tree can see him because of his increased vision by Consume and Climb and Crash.



    The Tall Man decides to crash at this hero, and the enemy is surprised because of this, having not see him climb the tree before. No trees are destroyed during this act.

    Important details(Please read both Granite Growth and Climb and Crash from beginning to the end!):

    -He can basically stay and sit forever on a tree, but his next move must be crashing to a location, nothing else.

    -He can be seen on a tree, he can definitely be targeted on a tree, physical or spell wise, basically ANY spell would work on him from Glacius's Ice Imprisonment to Legionnaire's Taunt(Would perhaps be a challenge to make this for the developers), that would by the way cancel Climb and Crash and he would attack Legionnaire.

    -Any disable or stun spell will let him fall from a normal tree. That way it would spare time for the developers and it would not make things complicated. But only disables and stuns would let him fall, not damage based spells or spells such as Thunderbringer's nuke or Pharaoh's mini stuns. He could also be hooked by Devourer or be teleported by Kraken. Obviously I will have to look at every current spell avaiable and then make a list of what spell does what when Climb and Crash is active.

    -A tree can be eaten when it is not buffed up by Granite Growth. You can also of course destroy the tree by using Pyromancer's stun or Tempest's Meteor for example. He would simply walk on the ground again then while enemy spells do their respected effects.

    -Climb and Crash cannot be used on the giant boughs appearing in Forest Disturbance!

    __________________________________________________

    3: Forest Disturbance:



    Self Supportive and Disable AOE spell.

    Through a mysterious nature based spell, The Tall Man is able to create a specific forest area at a target location. The area grows while it appears unstable during the process and will punish anyone with vile intentions who steps on it, using sudden sharp boughs which rise up. The boughs after each attack then instantly rot and die. After this is done, the area will no longer violently attack anyone. The area does not reveal enemy invis units, and on it's own, it has no vision.

    Lastly, if The Tall Man desires it, he can proceed to make all of the boughs buried underground overgrowth a circle around it's area, trapping any unlucky beings inside of it for 3/4/5/6 seconds. It also needs channeling time of 1 second to activate. After these seconds, the whole Forest Disturbance area is destroyed and disappears. Also, inside the overgrowth, no one can see beyond the boughs. With each level Forest Disturbance the AOE also becomes larger. The boughs act like normal trees on any map, and can be eaten by Runes of the Blight or destroyed by AOE spells.

    Type: Magic
    Target: Location
    Chance: 11%/22%/33%/44% every 0.25 seconds for a total of 20 seconds.
    Damage: 40/60/80/100
    Duration: 350 seconds.
    Mana Cost: 75/85/95/105, an additional mana cost of 50 when using the actual overgrowth.
    Amount: 1/2/3/4
    Cooldown: 35 seconds.
    Radius: 225/300/375/450(I thought these numbers up. I have no clue if this is accurate.)

    Lvl 1: Area is created, which has an 11% chance of inflicting 40 damage every 0.50 second for a total of 12 seconds. After this proces, the damage effect disappears. It then allows the hero to trap anyone inside for 3 seconds. Disappears afterwards or if the duration is over.

    Lvl 2: Area is created, which has an 22% chance of inflicting 60 damage every 0.50 second for a total of 12 seconds. After this proces, the damage effect disappears. It then allows the hero to trap anyone inside for 4 seconds. Disappears afterwards or if the duration is over.

    Lvl 3: Area is created, which has an 33% chance of inflicting 80 damage every 0.50 second for a total of 12 seconds. After this proces, the damage effect disappears. It then allows the hero to trap anyone inside for 5 seconds. Disappears afterwards or if the duration is over.

    Lvl 4: Area is created, which has an 44% chance of inflicting 100 damage every 0.50 second for a total of 12 seconds. After this proces, the damage effect disappears. It then allows the hero to trap anyone inside for 6 seconds. Disappears afterwards or if the duration is over.

    Visually, it would look like the area has dark green elements filling the air and ground. A bough doing damage would rise from the ground like a sudden sharp spike, and the actual overgrowth would look like something when Legion destroys the main building, but it would had to block any escape routes like DotA's Furion Sprout did.

    Example:



    An Enemy hero is overjoyed to see a double damage Rune nearby, and proceeds to walk to it using the hill. He did not foresee the nearby Forest Disturbance area placed, which was cast quite a while ago, while The Tall Man hides inside it. Because of his overexcitement and fog showing him the trap too late, he enters it.



    The Tall Man decides to trap the enemy, giant boughs appear(Trees are shown as an example). Afterwards, FD itself disappears with it's boughs.

    Important details about FD:

    -Damage is individual per chance.

    -Before the damage process is done, The Tall Man cannot trap enemies.

    -It is uncastable when trees, buildings, cliffs or hills are in the way.

    -Impossible to stack at the same location.

    __________________________________________________

    -Ultimate-

    4: Trunk Tissue:



    Strength supportive buff or a strength negative debuff.

    Can only be cast once on each hero, meaning that the spell can never stack. It increases or decreases a hero's maximum strength instantly, but it does not instantly heal or damage a hero, only the hp re/degeneration will do that.

    Type: Magic.
    Target: Ally, self or enemy hero.
    Chance: Only if the hero has not been cast Trunk Tissue before.
    Damage: Strength loss and decreased HP degeneration.
    Duration: 40 seconds.
    Mana Cost: 150
    Cooldown: 12 seconds.

    Lvl 1: Improves an ally or self hero's maximum HP by 237 and improves the HP regeneration of that hero. Lowers an enemy hero's maximum HP by 237 and degenerates the HP of that hero.

    Lvl 2: Improves an ally or self hero's maximum HP by 474 and improves the HP regeneration of that hero. Lowers an enemy hero's maximum HP by 474 and degenerates the HP of that hero.

    Lvl 3: Improves an ally or self hero's maximum HP by 751 and improves the HP regeneration of that hero. Lowers an enemy hero's maximum HP by 751 and degenerates the HP of that hero.

    Effects:

    +237/474/751 hp to ally or self hero and increased hp regeneration.
    -237/474/751 hp to enemy hero and decreased hp degeneration. This spell Cannot kill an enemy hero on it's own.

    HP regeneration (and degeneration) levels are similar to DotA's Alchemist Chemical Rage. Looking at this link: http://www.dotastrategy.com/hero-83-...Alchemist.html That means that HP regeneration at level 3 of TT would be improved to 751.

    Visually it would look like tree armor on allied heroes, while rotten armor would appear on enemy heroes.

    __________________________________________________
    Miscellaneous

    Self Synergy:

    Consume and Forest Disturbance: For laning, creeping and farming.

    Consume and Climb n' Crash: For storing additional damage.

    Granite Growth, Climb n' Crash and Forest Disturbance: For a surprise attack.

    Consume and Trunk Tissue: For impressive health regeneration.

    Climb n' Crash and Forest Disturbance: For offensive power.

    Granite Growth and Climb n' Crash: For effectively controlling an area.

    Team Synergy:

    Climb and Crash: Chasing attack.

    Forest Disturbance: Disable attack.

    Trunk Tissue: Supportive HP spell.

    Introduction Sounds:

    "From the mountains to this battlefield..."
    "The forest whispers..."

    Standard Sounds:

    "Ready for action!"
    "I will assist you."
    "I manipulate nature to overcome my enemies."
    "What can I do for you today?"

    Moving Sounds:

    "I'm working on it."
    "Approaching."
    "Getting in position."
    "With good intention."

    Attack Sounds:

    "Get out of my sight."
    "Your vile intentions must vanguish!"
    "Face me!"
    "Nature demands me to exile you!"

    __________________________________________________

    One more thing, the numbers, especially the numbers are purely experimental and could be changed at any time if it would appear to be more balanced.

    Please let me know on how to improve on this hero and thanks for doing so already if you decide to help!
    Last edited by Flow_Rush; 10-23-2009 at 04:37 PM.
    The Tall Man(Expired):
    http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/sh...ad.php?t=16514
    Aether(Expired):
    http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/sh...ad.php?t=44632
    If you leave a comment and vote, I will be sure to check out any suggestions you might have made!

  2. #2
    That's right, this is the third topic dedicated to my suggestion. Hopefully people will be kind enough to vote once again if looking at this post, because unfortunately I lost them again.

    "Because the old topic was moved, I will still repost my last response to several people in that topic, because not everyone was able to read my latest thoughts about the hero. So here is that post again:"


    Some really interesting suggestions and comments guys, these really helped!

    Rentaromon:

    If I ever gave up on this then you might use him, but when he is at the top, sure you may make any kind of hero...after all, the people themselves decide at the end.

    SunshinePony:

    Bare Hands:

    The lumber is permanently inside his belly until he either uses Climb and Crash or when he dies. The duration actually applies to his health regeneration. Lastly, he may always use this spell to regenerate, even with a maximum of 5 lumbers.

    Thinking back at DotA's Juggernaut healing ward, which heals an entire allied team for 4% per second, do you really think that this solo spell with a manacost of 30 is that overpowered? I am not so sure about it yet,
    I have to see it ingame first how this spell will be. Perhaps I shouldn't give him percent heals, but I thought it would fit him better, being a strength hero and all. He could become an incredible healing tank.Again, still not sure about Bare Hands.

    Climb and Crash:

    Thank you for reminding me of this . I had thoughts at work about how this spell would work for example if he got stunned on a tree. He can
    basically stay and sit forever on a tree, but his next move must be crashing to a location, nothing else. He can be seen on a tree, he can definitely be targeted on a tree, physical or spell wise, basically ANY spell would work on him from Glacius's Ice Imprisonment to Legionnaire's Taunt(Would perhaps be a challenge to make this for the developers), that would by the way cancel Climb and Crash and he would attack Legionnaire while the tree gets destroyed(For making room). The tree does NOT destroy when Climb and Crash is successful.

    Maybe it would be better to let him fall out of the tree like you asked when a stun occurs. That way it would spare time for the developers and it would not make things complicated. But only disables and stuns would let him fall, not damage based spells. Thunderbringer's nuke however...ok let's say that won't make him fall either. It just shows that we will have to think a lot about this situation when The Tall Man sits on a tree.

    So what should we do? Use the first solution or the second one?

    Forest Disturbance:

    I don't think you fully understood the spell yet(Can't blame you though, it's quite hard to make sense out of this one). The Tall Man does not need any lumber to cast this spell or to make it stronger. First, invisibility and damage occur at the area. Then, when The Tall Man traps enemies inside, these 2 effects disappear, and basically only a circle of giant boughs remain(The same idea as DotA's Furion Sprout). If you still don't understand it I will gladly help more, perhaps by using images.

    Obviously I still have to type a lot of sense at my original post, but I should only tell the consise information. It will be a challenge...

    Blarfles:

    Well, we're talking about a switch skill here. It does not mean that The Tall Man goes from Granite Axe to Bare Hands each time, no. You are free to use either spell at any time. If you want any logical answer, The Tall Man hunts using this axe but also likes to eat trees at the same time.

    Kaliuz:

    I understand your sharp eye here. However please remember a few things:

    -Forest Disturbance either gives a chance of damage or traps for 6 seconds, it never uses both at the same time.

    -Trunk Tissue can only be cast once on each hero, there is no stacking involved.

    -I haven't thought about the vision numbers yet, I still need help with that because I have no idea how these work. The same goes for Forest Disturbance's radius.

    -The most important thing; His mana pool! 470 AOE damage is really, really strong yeah, but consider the mana! It would make it 150 plus 110=260 mana(Plus an additional 15 mana switching back to Granite Axe). If The Tall Man rapidly collected lumber and then used Climb and Crash, he would definitely have no mana left all the way during early game and 75% of mid game.

    Even after I have said this all, I am willing to discuss these spells even more. I might be wrong on some thoughts, but that's where you guys can help me out.

    Now I will be busy looking at your hero suggestions!
    About Granite Axe Rentaromon, it's 2 passive effects should be enough already in my opinion, there is no need to give it also extra damage to heroes, that sounds ironic and far fetched to me.
    The Tall Man(Expired):
    http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/sh...ad.php?t=16514
    Aether(Expired):
    http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/sh...ad.php?t=44632
    If you leave a comment and vote, I will be sure to check out any suggestions you might have made!

  3.   This is the last staff post in this thread.   #3
    You did it

    New Twitter and Blog addresses!

  4. #4
    Thanks, anything you would like to add to this hero Nome? Seems like you already gave it the thumbs up.

    There have been some things I have been thinking about regarding CnC and FD, and now I will present them below, while I will also edit them into the first post:

    Climb and Crash:

    -A tree being used by The Tall Man cannot be eaten during this process, for balance reasons. It would be too easy to counter The Tall Man then, but you can destroy the tree by using Pyromancer's stun or Tempest's Meteor for example. He would simply walk on the ground again then while enemy spells do their respected effects.

    Important details about FD:

    -Damage is individual per chance.

    -Is impossible to cast on creep camps themselves, even when the creeps move, otherwise free gold would just be gotten every time. How to prevent this? Maybe make it uncastable when trees are in the way, but this won't be enough... Do you guys have any ideas?

    -It uses ideas from Sprout and Web, but in the end is unique on it's own, but you should not only consider the damage effect then. Consider also that the hero is strength based, it's manacost for the spell plus it's synergy with the other spells.

    I also changed the radius of Forest Disturbance, I think that Pharaoh's Tormented Soul radius is way too big for this spell, so that is why I changed it. I am still not sure if this would be more balanced though, I will have to see it in game then.
    Last edited by Flow_Rush; 08-30-2009 at 06:32 PM.
    The Tall Man(Expired):
    http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/sh...ad.php?t=16514
    Aether(Expired):
    http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/sh...ad.php?t=44632
    If you leave a comment and vote, I will be sure to check out any suggestions you might have made!

  5. #5
    Slightly updated The Tall Man's backstory and gave him a name. If you have any better suggestions regarding these be sure to reply.

    As you see, I will do anything to bring up my post while I also update at the same time.

    Next in line should probably be a good visual image or several images.
    The Tall Man(Expired):
    http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/sh...ad.php?t=16514
    Aether(Expired):
    http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/sh...ad.php?t=44632
    If you leave a comment and vote, I will be sure to check out any suggestions you might have made!

  6. #6
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    I think the biggest issue I have to this hero is that he has too much going on. He has no simple effects. I think you need to streamline his abilities somewhat- particularly forest disturbance and trunk tissue.

    I dislike the idea of having a toggle passive/active ability. It seems clunky to use, especially since granite axe really doesn't do anything special. You might as well just wrap it into Bare hands giving it a passive component and an activatable component.

    Forest disturbance feels like 1-3 abilities attempting to be wrangled into one. I think it needs to be pared down and simplified. Not every ability should require a 4 week correspondence course to understand fully. There are still people who miss out on small wordings and facts in the current heroes, imagine how this would work out.

    Trunk shouldn't be 'can cast only once on a hero' unless you mean it doesn't stack with itself, which is kind of unnecessary, since the same debuffs by default do not stack with themselves.

    I do like climb/crash though.

    Hero Suggestions:
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  7. #7
    I respect your suggestions Sabre, but considering that, I really have to know more opinions from others before I can drastically change Forest Disturbance for example, probably the most confusing spell, yet I still would want to work on it.

    As for Granite Axe/Bare Hands, it would feel awkward to turn it into a single skill and say something along the lines of "Oh and while you can solo creeps and enemy heroes with ease, you can also eat a tree with your hands". Logically but also differently I wanted to make an active and a passive skill into one. What you see as clunkyness is what I see as using a different strategic approach to the current situation. However if more people feel the same way about your suggestion then I will look deeper into it and change it.

    Meanwhile I edited the original post here and there, including the stack part of Trunk Tissue. It is never stackable, that's what I meant.

    However, everyone who has commented so far on my 3 topics have said the same: They all like Climb and Crash, so I am really glad to hear that.

    I will look at your Highland Sniper and The Ronin soon.
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  8. #8
    I have drastically changed Forest Disturbance. It should make much more sense now, and it also has destroyed the creep camp problem.

    Other than that, I would enjoy to see more comments plus votes!
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  9. #9
    Very interresting Hero. But this is more two heroes the way I see it. He has too many roles. I'd love to see him more simplified. He would have too much advantage over more "specialist" heroes.
    I blow

  10. #10
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    I still think that Granite Axe does not do enough in this hero to really warrant its inclusion, and as stated above Wilderness Disturbance feels like multiple skills are wrapped within it. Still needs trimming.

    Also consider rewording the Trunk Tissue spell, as it currently seems confusing.

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  11. #11
    Made my movement finally. Removed Granite Axe, replaced it with Granite Growth, changed Bare Hands's name to Consume. The switch skill has now become an effective forced switch skill.

    Removed the invisibility effect from Forest Disturbance, raised it's manacost, changed descriptions of spells, added more details, added new icons, updated the synergy and added more hero sounds.

    I will look forward to your comment.
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  12. #12
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    pretty interesting. However its VERY complex think about making it A BIT less complicated (Without destroying the whole thing)

    but overall i like it.

  13. #13
    Love it really, great new creative hero which hopefully HoN can achieve. It would be awesome to see the effects of a Climb and Crash.. Maybe yes a bit complicated in overall but I mean look at Tauren Chieftain in dota =o , people get used to it.

  14. #14
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    it gets hard and hard to understand this guy.

    im loseing faith in him.

  15. #15
    It gets tiresome to hear that the hero is too complicated, really guys. Megha makes a good point. During gameplay, things would be much easier to understand after 2 full matches.

    You see, I try only to provide the necessary information to each skill in order to answer most of your questions I have been thinking about for each of them. If I would delete for example any of these Important Details, Lvl1 through Lvl4 effects and picture examples with descriptions, people would be even more annoyed and demand for "More insight".

    It is for the best to have more information than less. And the OP isn't unpleasant to read, it doesn't look like a mess.

    I also added a basic picture for Odo.
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  16. #16
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    What I find helpful when heroes are complex, try to make a simplified version of the skills at the start of your thread so it can more easily be understood, and your template is kinda messy, not realy messy, but colorcoding and lines would help it alot. Look at my Boyg Template to get the jist of what I'm saying, you're welcome to use it (As it isnt even mine, it's Nome's =D ^^)
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  17. #17
    I like the idea of climbing and jumping from trees. Its something different and adds realism and the possibility to interact with the map.

    I know it doens't have a thing to do here, but I would like to see some skill or chars interacting with the river.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stillwater View Post
    I like the idea of climbing and jumping from trees. Its something different and adds realism and the possibility to interact with the map.

    I know it doens't have a thing to do here, but I would like to see some skill or chars interacting with the river.
    but since there are more than 1 levels that would have a problem.

  19. #19
    Added those lines that template uses, I still have to think about making a short summary skill set.

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  20. #20
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    You said

    Lvl 1: Improves an ally or self hero's maximum HP to 237 and improves the HP regeneration of that hero. Lowers an enemy hero's maximum HP to 237 and degenerates the HP of that hero.
    You meant

    Lvl 1: Improves an ally or self hero's maximum HP by 237 and improves the HP regeneration of that hero. Lowers an enemy hero's maximum HP by 237 and degenerates the HP of that hero.
    Or rather, I hope you did

    Forest Disturbance seems a little crazy. At level 4, to simplify things, let's say half the time you do 100 damage. Meaning on average, per wave, you do 50 damage. It lasts 20 seconds and theres 2 waves per second (ignoring the information about the skill where you say 4 waves per second) So 40 waves @ 50 damage is 2000 damage?
    Pair this with some disable and you have crazy damage. And it's total effect lasts 26 seconds? This skill seems really weird. Unless I'm missing something

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