Blood Chalice Remake Suggestion

[[1o]Luke_Allstar]

I want to make a little suggestion regarding the item Blood Chalice.
It's a pretty neat item but as it is at this moment, it's too strong and buffed too many heroes.
I will exactly state my thoughts what (i think) the problems are with this item and what my suggestion would be to change it to a better item
There is a TL;DR at the bottom but i try to not write a wall of text. so read it. NOW . please!


The Problem:
At the moment, Blood Chalice is too strong for its low cost.
You get so much mana for such a cheap price, you get extra stats and the only tradeoff is the health loss.

It was a really nice buff to all those melee strength heroes that suffered from their high mana costs and low mana pools(,,,, ..).
But it not only buffed the most strength heroes that lack of mana, it also buffed every hero that has an AoE heal ( ..) or heros with some kind of a selfheal or a self protect ( :jera: ..). Those heroes totaly negate the drawback that Blood Chalice should have, so its a free AoE heal + free mana and that is too strong.
Most of those healers are pretty strong even without Blood Chalice, so why buff them even further?

It shifted the balance a bit too much around in my opinion.
It was part of the balance that some heroes have a lack of mana so they are not able to spam spells constantly.
And they shouldn't be able to spam their spells for such a cost and in such a high intervall.
There are also other good items to regain some fast mana (:Bottle::ManaBattery but both items have their drawbacks (and don't give stats when you don't upgrade it to :PowerSupply and I don't think that a bit of HP loss is a really big deal, esp. for healers.


My Suggestion for Blood Chalice:
Shift it more into a ganking style item with a higher risk - but also a higher reward - and not a nobrainer item for so many heroes.

how to do that:
Make it charge based
I know many people don't like charges on skills or items but i will explain how Blood Chalice can really benefit from charges and how they will work.

Here my new Blood Chalice:

Blood Chalice

Items used are the same, gold is also the same (650 gold in total)
:TrinketOfRestoratio Trinket of Restoration: 350 g
:MarkOfTheNovice: Mark of Novice: 150 g
:CrushingClaws: Crushing Claws: 150 g

Passive Bonuses are also the same
+3 Int
+3 Str
+2 Health regeneration

Remove the health gain when killing an enemy hero after use.

Cooldown: 0 (will explain that later)

On Use:
Consumes 1 Charge. Removes 70 Health and grants 70 Mana.

Every three minutes one charge is added.
When killing an enemy hero or assisting in killing an enemy hero, one charges are added.

Maximum of 6 Charges

So how will those changes work out?
With one charge every three minutes, you can make use of it in the laning phase, but just not as good as you could before.
You will keep the stats that will help you regardless of the effect.
You can't play so passive with the new Blood Chalice.
You will need to get kills or at least assists too make full use of it.

Why is there no cooldown? Wouldn't it be even more powerfull?
Yes, it CAN be more powerfull when used rigth, but only when you have max charges, and also keep in mind, you need to get kills or assist or stack charges over time to get the full power of it!
To get all 6 charges without kills or assists will take 18 minutes so it can't be abused like it can be now.
So without any cooldown, you can use all 6 charges at once, but keep in mind that you exchange 420 Health for 420 Mana.
That means it will be a really high risk to use more charges at once.
You will get a high benefit for playing agressive


TL;DR
Shift it to a more ganking orianted item instead of a nobrainer item for too many heroes.
Give Blood Chalice charges for kills and assists and after 3 minutes. Remove cooldown completely. Consume charges on use for its effect.
Read my suggestion, it's not such a big wall of text


Sidenotes:
Numbers are off course not finished, but i think they are okay as they are, but if you think they are to high or whatever, please proof me wrong.
Maybe just a slight cooldown would be better instead of no cooldown or something like that.
And please give me feedback, don't just vote yes or no, please tell me why you like/dislike the idea and what you would change.
I know that I'm by no means a pro, but i think i have enought experience to see what is wrong with this item atm.
You can also give me feedback on the whole layout
I tried to make it easy to read and to highlight important words and numbers
I hope I have not overdone it with the colors and all that

[`SunTzu]

this is actually a really good idea. numbers could be tweaked but.. CRUCIAL concept!

[[S2]ElementUser]

Assists & kills should both grant 1 charge ~.~

Making kills give 2 charges would encourage ksing more

[[1o]Luke_Allstar]

Assists & kills should both grant 1 charge ~.~

Making kills give 2 charges would encourage ksing more

yeah i guess you are right, everytime you ks, god kills a panda
will change it for both to give only 1 charge

maybe i will tweak some other numbers regarding charges
giving 2 charges on kill/assist and 1 charge over time but not not 3 minutes and lower numbers on health loss/mana gain or something like that
but i will think about that for a bit before i change it
but the numbers shouldn't be the main target to lock at anyway ~

[Malkinen]

Making kills give 2 charges would encourage ksing more

KSing isn't fundamentally wrong, otherwise BH wouldn't benefit so very much from it and be built to do it so easily.

Pubs are gonna KS anyway at least this gives them a good reason to do so.

[[1o]Luke_Allstar]

KSing isn't fundamentally wrong, otherwise BH wouldn't benefit so very much from it and be built to do it so easily.

Pubs are gonna KS anyway at least this gives them a good reason to do so.

that is the problem, if you give them a reason, they can justify themselfs for doing so, or justify others for yelling at someone because they didn't get the lasthit
that's why you shouldn't encourage killstealing in any way

never the less, i don't really want to discuss killstealing here, would be happy to see some more feedback on my suggestion

[[3TP]Static]

I like the idea, but I think it should still give some sort of mana advantage without having to be getting kills all day. 1 use per 3 minutes (or kill) is pretty pitiful, especially when it still requires health to use. I have a feeling if this was implemented, it wouldn't end up being used very often.

I had another idea recently when talking about it in game that people seemed to like:

Original blood chalice gave 150 temporary (faded if not used) mana for 150 health. This made it useless as a burst of mana ability, because most abilities that would take advantage of it well (in situations where you were oom and needed a boost of mana really fast) ended up costing more than 150, and so it was hard to justify using it ever. Temporary mana when you're oom is really hard to justify, and the item could never carry you to near full mana.

This one gives 150 mana for 150 HP. Why not make a mix of both? 100 temporary mana and 100 mana that doesn't fade for 200 HP. Why the increase from 150->200? It needs to give you enough mana to cast spells that would be necessary in emergency situations. Keep the heal for if the hero dies within range. It'll retain its ability to give you mana over time, but at less than half the effectiveness it had before, giving it the nerf it needs while still making it worthwhile.

[Kokuyo]

This one gives 150 mana for 150 HP. Why not make a mix of both? 100 temporary mana and 100 mana that doesn't fade for 200 HP. Why the increase from 150->200? It needs to give you enough mana to cast spells that would be necessary in emergency situations. Keep the heal for if the hero dies within range. It'll retain its ability to give you mana over time, but at less than half the effectiveness it had before, giving it the nerf it needs while still making it worthwhile.

Or make it charge based, generate one charge every minute, maximum of three charges, trade 70 health for 50 mana. Mana won't fade.
Right now you can get 150 mana in 35 seconds, my change would nerf it to 150 mana in 3 minutes with a worse trading ratio.
Remove the heal on enemy death nearby.