Tundra

[[B3T]Maraxus]

Ive played the new thundra, and i must say im liking could shoulder a lot.

So much so that ive skipped his nuke alltogether.

But still i was wondering, since i didnt play him all that much after puzzle got a price boost, whats the exact mehanics of his nuke?

I know that there are several posts with explanations of this(the double damage type) and that(scaling into lategame) but i would like a summary or a link to it.

Please?

So just use simple "you have 300 hp, 5 phy armor 5 magic armor" sort of explanations to visualise what happens.

thx

[spikernum1]

thundra

could shoulder

mehanics

IIRC: Physical damage, and each line produces it's own individual wave (eg. a unit can be hit by 1 wave, or both)

[Jotain]

Armor reduction works normally, read armor tooltip or check FAQ thread for numbers. You can get hit by both axes, they work individially and dont care about eachother really.

E: Oh its mixed damage. Always check game files i guess

[[S2]ElementUser]

Each shards' damage type is magic & physical, so the damage stated in the tooltip will be reduced once by Physical Armor and once by Magic Armor

[[B3T]Maraxus]

K well i sorta knew that, but gave it a little calculation and actually its not so bad.
Alltho it gets reduced twice its also "split" in the start so all the reductions are split as well.

Im off to do more thinking, keep the info coming please.

[Jotain]

Its not split, its one damage instance that gets reduced twice

<damage effecttype="SuperiorMagic SuperiorPhysical" amount="90,120,150,180" />

[[B3T]Maraxus]

Yes but surely its reduced once for one axe and another time for the other one?

Or?

[jack]

If I'm reading the tooltip correctly:

Each shard does 180 damage of physical and magical damage, 360 damage total. However it is reduced by physical and magical armor.

Meaning, if the person had 0 physical and 0 magical armor, you could effectively do 720 damage at level 4?

[[B3T]Maraxus]

No it only hits once, after it hit it dosent do more dmg to the same target.
It only hits for 180 and thats it.

But if there are 2 (180+180), does that mean that both are individually calculated for armor?
That would mean that a 50% reduction, when applied to 2 sources of dmg is actually 25%.

Is that so?

[Jotain]

Yes, they are two damage instances so they get both counted.

I dont get your point with the 25% thing, they both lose half of the damage if you have 50% reduction. Lets say they both do 2 damage. 1/2 = 2/4, numbers change but the reduction stays at 50% (unless armor changes or something like that)

[jack]

Activation
Anything hit by the ice shards takes 90 / 120 / 150 / 180 Magical and Physical damage. This damage is reduced by both Magical and Physical Armor.

This ability destroys trees.

180 Magical and Physical damage, which I assume means each shard = 360 damage, half magical, half physical. Two shards = 720 damage. That's what makes sense after reading the description. However if you try it out in practice mode you don't even come close to 720 damage.

[Jotain]

180 Magical and Physical damage, which I assume means each shard = 360 damage, half magical, half physical. Two shards = 720 damage. That's what makes sense after reading the description.

The description is confusing. They should call it "mixed damage" like in dota.

[[SPB]Xclio]

180 Magical and Physical damage, which I assume means each shard = 360 damage, half magical, half physical. Two shards = 720 damage. That's what makes sense after reading the description. However if you try it out in practice mode you don't even come close to 720 damage.

if this was true it'd better be and ulti, lol. but seriously,

<damage effecttype="SuperiorMagic SuperiorPhysical" amount="90,120,150,180" />

i believe that means each shard deals the damage as both magic and physical damage at the same time. both shards are two separate affectors in the game (visible in practice mode/a game if you aim so that you hit someone with first one shard then again as the second one returns), each dealing 180 physical/magic damage. im not sure how reduction is affects the shards, my guess is it is figured multiplicative, if you have 50% magic reduction and 50% physical reduction you reduce the damage by 75% because first one armor type reduction is applied and then the second is applied afterward, i.e. ((180/2)/2) = 45 damage per shard 90 if both come into contact.

[[S2]ElementUser]

The above poster is correct

[jack]

If thats the case, shards suck.

[[SPB]Xclio]

If thats the case, shards suck.

Quite the contrary actually, it's an incredibly powerful nuke early to mid game. Under level 10 most heroes have less than 10 physical armor and only about 5 magic armor, im not sure how that calculates into reduction but im sure its less than 20% for both. if you hit them with both shards at level 4 you can still do about 260-300 damage. In addition the range is a ridiculously long 1300 making it a great finisher as they run. Really the only downside to the nuke is the 120 mana cost on a hero that doesn't start with a lot of mana. Also the casttype and damagetype is superior type in both magic and physical categories meaning you can damage those pesky preds and swiftblades even when they go magic immune. My case above was an extreme case of 50% reduction to make calculations easy, in reality you rarely see that kind of damage reduction in both categories.

[jack]

Quite the contrary actually, it's an incredibly powerful nuke early to mid game. Under level 10 most heroes have less than 10 physical armor and only about 5 magic armor, im not sure how that calculates into reduction but im sure its less than 20% for both. if you hit them with both shards at level 4 you can still do about 260-300 damage. In addition the range is a ridiculously long 1300 making it a great finisher as they run. Really the only downside to the nuke is the 120 mana cost on a hero that doesn't start with a lot of mana. Also the casttype and damagetype is superior type in both magic and physical categories meaning you can damage those pesky preds and swiftblades even when they go magic immune. My case above was an extreme case of 50% reduction to make calculations easy, in reality you rarely see that kind of damage reduction in both categories.

I understand they still do a good deal of damage however for a hero who can't really carry or anything, his nuke isn't as good as people with a flat 350 magic damage nuke, which probably also stuns.

[Alistair]

His nukes got alot more than just damage. I tend to use it when ganking instead of going the long way round trees id rather cut a path and get my ult stun off immediately. it's great for chasing too where you can cut down all the tree's stopping the runner from juking or making a shortcut for catching up to him. i agree though cold shoulder is much more awesome than his old passive. I <3 tundra and <3 him more since the buff.

[[Wolf]Trysaeder]

It pretty much does 270 physical damage to heroes with no bonus m.armour, and 360 physical damage to creeps.

It's special in the way that it benefits from reductions in both types of armour, however this is usually not the reality in games as most heroes have at least one positive armour.

[[B3T]Maraxus]

All in all its exactly as i imagined.

I find it tedius, slow, and ineffective.

I skip it for stats, get 2 bracers, steamboots, insanitarius, heart. The new skill makes it easy to kill anything since you are right beside them, tanky as hell, and have your kitty witch slows for tons.

I get 2/3/2/3/3/4 and gank gank gank.

sweetness....