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I usually do not write in forums, but this is something that has bother me for quite sometime.
Why does HoN players choose "less often" support playing heroes (check the statistics yourself or just play HoN)?
The reason is quite simple, the game itself provides support roles for many heroes BUT does not encourage it. For example, a a hard-carry like SS can easily dispatch 4 enemy heroes, even if its not Overly fed in a mid-late game, and he by that moment in time hes got enough firepower to withstand a fight and emerge victorious. In that game, he'll get PSR, KDA, high GpM, and EpM. A support hero like Glacious may need ally in any fight (fights, not "ganks) to make the kill
But what about that demended shaman that put out his cloud over the enemies secs before the SS entered (blinked or invis) and healed SS so he could finish off the rest of the enemies.
Note also how support heroes are always the b1tches that have to place the wards and monkeys, birds, and even healing pots for the "Carry".
Most of the time they are undervalued as well, a support can be doing 110% well his job ( warding, keeping enemies from free farming, going along with ganks ) but in the end if the carry doesn't get up and running, the game can quickly turn around, as the support lost their edge as the game progress.
Perhaps someone here, who obviously has more experience than i, will show me why would a good decent competive player will use a support here?, that will lower his KDA everytime.
Where am i going with all this? I believe S2 games should encourage the use of support heroes, and perhaps we will see them after they activate the awards, but may be more than just the number of ward placed.
May be implement something a like Captains Mode, back in Dota. When 1 player (may be elected by the remaing 4 or by default ) could choose the layout and structure of the team to make it more efficient.
People who play support don't give a **** about KDA, your point is moot.
Basically what you're saying is that KDA doesn't mean anything since a great support can have a bad KDA... good job I guess. I already knew that. Don't judge by KDA, it doesn't mean ****.
Last edited by TheMadman; 07-06-2010 at 02:25 PM.
http://i.imgur.com/14irX.jpg
Buy the courier at the beginning of the match. This magically frees you from the responsibility of buying wards.
KDR is cool but winning is even cooler. So yeah, ^ has it on point.
Playing carry= If you play well, you win most of the time. If you suck, you lose.
Playing support= If you play well, you might win cause of an allied Scout with 15 min Runed axe, or you might lose cause that same scout is getting Staff of the Master first. If you suck, you feed the other team and lose 99% of the time.
Saying SS is a hard carry in the first real paragraph makes any point you said moot.
MasterGeese makes a good point, regardless of how well a support player plays, he will still have a low KDR (by definition of support) and his W/L ratio is completely dependent on his teams carry. So a skilled support player could be a bomb ass Glacius 8 days a week and still get no respect because his KDR is low and his PSR is shot from fail carries.
Now i know in clans and high lvl comp teams the players all know each other and their respective skill level regardless of what the PSR or KDR shows so this isn't a problem, but for fairly new players or none clan members its hard to play on any competitive team unless u have the stats to get your foot in the door.
People don't play support because stats are public. Since stats are that bar that allows them to play in in most peoples games (.5kdr need not apply) these stats must be cherished and the only way to hopefully increase them is to play carries who will get all the creeps and hero kills, while hopefully not getting the deaths that support will get. Make stats private and people probably won't give a ****.
In pubs you don't need to play carry to get kills and you can farm kda with support heroes just as easily.
Also, support players with high average deaths and low assist numbers are probably pretty bad support players.
Low assist numbers means they're not in the right place at the right time and high deaths means they're not spending their time alive to support.
Kills are the only measure that's not incredibly important when gauging a player.
I have been stuck right around .9 KDR since last September. I have just learned that this is where I will always be, as a support player.
You will find plenty of people with a 1.5-2.0 KDR, who play nothing but Carries, and ***** about people not having 1.0 or more. It is really frustrating to see, especially since a good Carry should be more like 5.0 KDR, if he does his job right and farms properly.
Perhaps they can add a new stat, such as ADR. This way you can see how often someone was in a team fight, and how often they died. What would a good ratio be for a ADR?
haven't read this yet but:
TANKS DO NOT EXIST IN HON, THERE ARE ONLY CARRIES THAT STACK HP CUS U CAN'T DPS WHEN UR DEAD
and the reason is KDR
Should've pre-purchased during closed beta... Could've had a V8 too...
...Originally Posted by chu
Look at competitive play. Lets assume that the picks in competitive play are actually working strategies.
In theory, if you have a "working strategy", you should come ahead of "random mishmosh hodgepodge of carries and non-support".
I got myself to 1700 purely by playing support. The game is not won by playing carries- the game is won by the support. ANY 1400 can carry. I say this with utmost seriousness- anybody can sit in a lane and farm. However- the support dictates whether they can sit in the lane and farm or not. Just ping them and tell them to get the **** back in the lane after they make their elder parasite and abyssal skull then try to suicide into them.
Worst comes to worst, you'll be super duper unkillable demented shaman.
On another note: Support have some of the best heroes in the game to play.
Ophelia, Demented Shaman, Pollywog Priest, Plague Rider.
i wouldnt say playing a carry well guarantees a win.
you can get a 15 minute runed axe and still lose because they pushed you through
even late game, the better players will win.
you could have farmed up a storm but if you have retards who like to go rambo at 50 minutes in or get caught in obvious ganks, you can lose quite easily.
so in other words.
the team thas has the better players, better team work, better leadership. will win
The only problem I have is support heroes are totally dependent on their team.
If the carry or initiator does not do his job well at all, support heroes are left to suffer.
Support heroes are absolutely not dependant on their team, rather carries are completely dependant on support heroes
Why do people pick support heroes in the first place? If they are wholeheartedly dependant on their team, why would anyone even consider picking it in higher games?
Simple- They dominate early game. However, when supporting, instead of dominating and giving all the farm to your carry- if they're incompetant, dominate and feed yourself.
Suddenly you have a fat as hell demented shaman with a puzzle 3 wrecking everyone's ****.
It's not rewarding to play support heroes. Even if you're amazing with glacius, in typical game you might end up with 0-5-15 stats, underleveled, and your invenvotry consists of powersupply, boots and a bracer. Enemy carries and gankers can kill you in 2 seconds, and then people will flame at YOU for sucking and not having items, even though your wards probably saved your carries asses more than 10 times.
The main reason is cuz support type heroes aren't "cool" as carriers.
Holy crap, who wouldn't want to play a "scout" who walks the road of vengeance. a freakin deranged psycho "madman" who does barrel rolls or a "corrupted disciple" who shootz lazers.
I mean, the new heroes like chipper and new pollywog are pretty cool looking, but carries need to look less "badass". seriously
Don't know what you are talking about.. i always play support cause it makes the team win. Rather have PSR then KD and my DA is about 2.5 (MM) so i'am okay with it.
You understand that minus Native Americans, All Americans are FROM other countries, so our heritage is your heritage.
Oh and America did happen to save a certain continent from complete control from another certain country. If Americans only know how to fire weapons then the war must have been won by just shooting guns. In which case, either Americans are the best shots in the world, or Europeans just can't shoot guns. So put that absurdity aside, We won through superior tactics as well as skilled soldiers.
Our ability to shoot guns did not earn us the spot of a Super Power in the world.
-Pyus
What you see often and even in competitive play is supports becoming underlvled as the game progresses. This leads to often them becoming a prime target for carries and feeding material. I think people really need to move away from the rice all day carry to a more active one in teamfights and pushes early/mid game. As I've seen often now, a lot of top tier teams stomp other teams with semi carries/ strong mid game classes, to win the game early. Map control is extremely important and if you don't have your outer towers, its extremely hard to farm. For this reason I think the best support roles are shifting to more disablers like pyromancer or witch sllayer which I think is a great thing as they have a much greater impact early game.
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